Videogame News

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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KSubzero1000
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Re: Videogame News

Post by KSubzero1000 » March 19th, 2018, 11:28 pm

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Quick, let me list those of my favourite franchises that I consider to have gone to shit in descending order of quality differences / joke factor:

- Ninja Gaiden
- Silent Hill
- Resident Evil
- Metal Gear
- Fire Emblem
- Metroid
- Devil May Cry
- Fable
- Halo
- Castlevania
- Zero Escape

God of War is... one of the few remaining fortresses. I don't want to see it reduced to some design-by-committee walky-talky TLoU clone bullshit, focus-tested within an inch of its life. I welcome the effort of telling a more mature story with open arms, but I completely reject the harebrained notion that this somehow has to come at the expense of proper gameplay. I don't even know where this idea that games have only started taking narrative qualities seriously in the past few years is coming from?! Xenogears, Suikoden, Silent Hill 2 and MGS2 all manage to tell interesting stories dealing with mature subject matter without sacrificing interaction in the process, and those are all 17+ year old games. I mean, these games are older than some people's parents.

Dear industry, maybe take a look at your own backyard instead of so desperately trying to copy other forms of media for cheap respectability points. Let Naughty Dog do their Naughty Dog thing and treat your other franchises with the respect that they (mostly) deserve.

At this point, I'm almost glad F-Zero ended on such a high note, rather than having to write a eulogy for that as well. And I can almost smell that 50 km/h gyro-controlled version lurking in the shadows. Don't think I'm not onto you, Ninty.

This is kinda not funny. I'm getting some anxiety shakes just typing this. Nothing to do but finish my CVX write-up, gulp down two cans of 4.5% cider and go to bed early, I guess.


PS: I'm out of cider.

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Flabyo
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Flabyo » March 20th, 2018, 7:15 am

You can probably ‘blame’ Horizon Zero Dawn for being great for the changes to God of War.

Developers gonna make what people are buying.

(I’m expecting the Fable reboot to do much the same)

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Videogame News

Post by KSubzero1000 » March 20th, 2018, 9:32 am

I'm not going to blame Horizon for being great at what it does. But I simply can't wrap my head around this notion of every game being this amalgamation of the same allegedly popular design tropes to the point of losing their unique voice and what made their series great in the first place. I know it's partly a budget thing, and that publishers are (understandably) becoming more risk-adverse with rising development costs, but I feel like we're all losing out in the long term.

People are buying Nutella, too. Doesn't mean I want to find Nutella in my steamed buns. Stick to your strengths, please.

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Flabyo
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Flabyo » March 20th, 2018, 11:39 am

This isn’t anything new though, publishers have always shifted games to whatever is the thing that works.

In the 80s every movie licensed game became a mini game collection.
90s it was all about platform games.
00s it went all first person shooter.
Now it’s open world.

By this time next year you can probably expect every major studio to stuff a battle royale mode into their games.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Videogame News

Post by KSubzero1000 » March 20th, 2018, 11:55 am

I know there is some truth to what you're saying, but I can't help but feel like things are now being homogenized to an unprecedented degree.

All of the series I listed above were alive and well during the 00's, and only one of them was an FPS. The others successfully carved their own niche and committed to their own design philosophy, which (arguably) led to their respective peaks.

And what bothers me the most is that these are all pre-existing franchises that are being messed with. If I don't like Horizon, I'll just abstain from buying it without feeling like I'm missing out on anything, because it rightfully was conceived as its own IP. It's much easier to judge a product on its own merit if it simply focuses on doing its own thing.

I'm also potentially fine with a sequel reinventing the wheel and abandoning tradition in the process of creating its own unique identity, like RE4. But to do that simply in order to chase after the perceived market leader...?

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Flabyo
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Flabyo » March 20th, 2018, 12:28 pm

I do get some of where you’re coming from, but a lot of it seems to be ‘I want them to change the games, unless they change them to something I don’t like, then I’d rather they didn’t change it’.

Which is fair I guess?

Maybe I’m just old and jaded enough to not be massively attached to a single franchise and expecting it to be the same quality forever. That kinda died for me with final fantasy 8. Heh.

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Todinho
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Todinho » March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm

I get your overall sentiment Ksub but I think you're misguided in holding up God of War as something whose structure should be preserved since God of war has been on a decline, arguably since before 3 with the psp spin-offs, if you remember the last game in the series, Ascension, didnt exactly set the world on fire and even at it's peak GoW was always unfavorably compared to it's japanese counter parts in the character action genre, so why would the devs want to cling to a formula that was, by all accounts, in decadence?

On this new game they seem to want to tell a more mature story and I agree that you dont need to turn all games in the format of TloU to do it but I dont think you can keep the same structure of the old games either especially if you want to have this relationship between Kratos and the kid through the whole game, even if you dont like the 'run and talk' thing its better then if you needed a cutscene everytime Kratos and the kid talked breaking the flow of gameplay so I think that change is fine, I mean think about it so between fights you might have to walk and talk to the kid well what did you do between fight in God of war, well you just walked.

I`d like also to bear in mind that there are plenty of series that simply stick to their formula and just stagnate and die, Silent Hill is a prime example where every Silent Hill post 4 was desperatly trying to mimic Silent Hill 2 and they all pretty much stuck to the formula of the old ones, the exception was also the most successfull game out of all of the western ones which was Shatered Memories that took a completelly different approach.

To pick another series that I think always managed to successfully reinvent itself with almost every entry was Metal Gear, no mainline Metal gear is the same none of them is just the same but bigger and better like so many other franchises, the change from 2D to 3D from closed enviroments with a focus on line of sight to open enviroments with camo, to being split into missions,etc. If you just looked at Metal Gear Solid and MGS4 in isolation you`d say "wow these are totally different" but the core is still the same and that`s what matters, if the new God of War can have xp,crafting and what not but nail that core then I think its gonna be fine, if it doesnt and it turns out to be just a walking simulator then it`s fair to pick up the torches and pitchforks.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Videogame News

Post by KSubzero1000 » March 20th, 2018, 11:58 pm

Todinho wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I get your overall sentiment Ksub but I think you're misguided in holding up God of War as something whose structure should be preserved since God of war has been on a decline, arguably since before 3 with the psp spin-offs, if you remember the last game in the series, Ascension, didnt exactly set the world on fire and even at it's peak GoW was always unfavorably compared to it's japanese counter parts in the character action genre, so why would the devs want to cling to a formula that was, by all accounts, in decadence?
Yes and no.

Unlike most other character action game purists, I actually do think quite highly of the GoW games. I would never claim that their combat engines are on the same level as Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta, but I think they do make up for it through impeccable presentation, pacing, enemy variety, sound design and artistic direction. The mechanics themselves are rather simplistic, but I'll go on record and say that the way in which they are used is impeccable. Playing through GoW2 and going from one incredible yet substantial setpiece to another is a very rewarding experience. This game's curated structure and presentation style is the kind of experience that I would absolutely love to have on the modern generation of console. No, Uncharted doesn't count.

I agree that Ascension is by far the low point of the series, but I can't agree with throwing the PSP games under the bus in the same breath. Ghost of Sparta alone is one of my favorite entries in the series.

Also, while they may be comparatively shallow, the higher difficulties do force the player to learn the ins and outs of the combat and can create some very satisfying moments as a result. Beating Zeus in GoW2 or Hades in GoW3 on the highest difficulty are some of my most cherished gaming memories.

With all that being said, I get the argument that the developers had done pretty much everything they could with that specific formula and that there wasn't much room left for improvement. I can agree with that. But their structure is precious and should be preserved for its unique presentation style alone.

Todinho wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
On this new game they seem to want to tell a more mature story and I agree that you dont need to turn all games in the format of TloU to do it but I dont think you can keep the same structure of the old games either especially if you want to have this relationship between Kratos and the kid through the whole game, even if you dont like the 'run and talk' thing its better then if you needed a cutscene everytime Kratos and the kid talked breaking the flow of gameplay so I think that change is fine
What's wrong with cutscenes, especially since they offer the director almost all of the established tools of cinematic storytelling? What is the tangible benefit of forced walking sections, since they very rarely, if ever, require proper interactivity and automatically lessen replay value by virtue of almost always being unskippable?

MGS3's script is 120 thousand words long, manages to tell a fairly mature story with plenty of memorable and believable character dynamics, and most importantly, never encroaches on its own gameplay. It just understands when it's time to talk about things and when it's time to actually do things, and assigns its resources accordingly. Simple as that.

No, I completely abhor this trend of forced walking sections. It's the worst of both worlds for no other reason than "immersion". Let's not pretend that the poor developers have no other choice than to butcher interaction on the altar of Holy Narration. You definitely can deliver on both story and gameplay if you put your mind to it. The problem is that a lot of AAA developers think that the only way to tell a proper story is by taking the pseudo-cinematic simulation route, instead of analyzing how their own medium works.

I'm open to be proven wrong, btw. I hope this game blows my mind and shows the world how to properly integrate an AI companion in both gameplay and story without compromising either one. But what I don't want is yet another TLoU-style interactively challenged feels-athon that gets a 10/10 from Forbes Magazine but leaves me disappointed. I've got more than enough of those already.

Todinho wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I mean think about it so between fights you might have to walk and talk to the kid well what did you do between fight in God of war, well you just walked.
Not really. If you tally up the time you spend in GoW2 either platforming, solving puzzles, or following environmental clues that lead you to relevant treasures, and compare it to the time you spend strictly walking from A to B, I think you'll find that the balance will ever so slightly tip in favor of the former. Hence the term "action-adventure". The former may not be combat, but they're still gameplay segments. Furthermore, the few pure walking segments that exist are almost always used as establishing shots thanks to the dynamic camera design happening at the same time.

The problem with shoehorning walky-talky elements is that it does negatively impact pacing and replayability. Pressing Triangle next to a yellow mark on the wall in order to trigger the next line of dialogue while the animations play out is neither proper gameplay nor a skippable cutscene. That's why TLoU has all these dumb ladders and water sections. So the player can pass the time while the dialogue happens. It's all smoke and mirrors and I find it incredibly condescending.

In MGS3, you can either pay attention to the well-directed cutscenes and/or codec conversations that don't pretend to be interactive for no reason, or you can just skip them on repeated playthroughs. Best of both worlds, every second is put to good use.

Todinho wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I`d like also to bear in mind that there are plenty of series that simply stick to their formula and just stagnate and die, Silent Hill is a prime example where every Silent Hill post 4 was desperatly trying to mimic Silent Hill 2 and they all pretty much stuck to the formula of the old ones, the exception was also the most successfull game out of all of the western ones which was Shatered Memories that took a completelly different approach.
Good point. There are indeed numerous series that just don't have any room left for growth and should best be left alone, Silent Hill being a perfect example.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that Silent Hill had always had trash gameplay / combat. Which is one of the reasons why SM is so good: It understands what to focus on. Losing out on trash-tier Silent Hill combat is no big deal. But as stated above, I don't think the same holds true for GoW.

Todinho wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
if it [..] turns out to be just a walking simulator then it`s fair to pick up the torches and pitchforks.
See you on the other side, mate. ;)

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Todinho
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Todinho » March 21st, 2018, 3:56 am

Went to look at some videos and I think these might both make you less and more worried about how the game will turn out, make of it what you will XD.(btw I recommend muting the second video because the commentary is insuferable)




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KSubzero1000
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Re: Videogame News

Post by KSubzero1000 » March 21st, 2018, 8:28 am

Well, allow me to respond with the greatest interview ever filmed, then:


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Re: Videogame News

Post by kintaris » March 24th, 2018, 10:37 am

GOG have finally got access to Maniac Mansion and also one of the prettiest adventure games of its time - The Curse of Monkey Island.

I was devastated when my CD ROM Monkey Island trilogy gave up the ghost, so I am very happy to finally be able to have the three of them together again. Curse is possibly the weakest but it is still great, and just lovely to look at.

Not sure we'll see the fourth one any time soon but you never know! I'll still buy it if so. It played a huge part in my childhood, despite being pretty terrible by my standards as an adult.
Sam Quirke - @kintaris

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Todinho
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Todinho » March 28th, 2018, 11:13 pm

Wow didnt expect that level of Disney being controlling, if simple things like combo videos were micromanaged to this level imagine what development was like: https://gamerant.com/marvel-vs-capcom-i ... iler-rule/

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Re: Videogame News

Post by Alex79uk » April 1st, 2018, 8:18 am

Here is IGN's top 100 games of all time (2018)

http://m.uk.ign.com/lists/top-100-games/

Now I know that many people take little stock in things like this, but I love a good list. It's always interesting to see how much you disagree with it (and there is plenty on here I disagree with, although I struggle to argue against their number 1, even if it's not my favorite game of all time - although it is in my top 5 for sure).

Have a look, see what you think, discuss!

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Re: Videogame News

Post by kintaris » April 1st, 2018, 8:34 am

Alex79uk wrote:
April 1st, 2018, 8:18 am
Here is IGN's top 100 games of all time (2018)

http://m.uk.ign.com/lists/top-100-games/

Now I know that many people take little stock in things like this, but I love a good list. It's always interesting to see how much you disagree with it (and there is plenty on here I disagree with, although I struggle to argue against their number 1, even if it's not my favorite game of all time - although it is in my top 5 for sure).

Have a look, see what you think, discuss!
I really like lists like this myself. Partly because it's fun to view how things have shifted over the years, and also to predict whether certain recent games might drop away over the next few iterations (for example The Witness - great as it is, I can easily see even more creative games of its type pushing it down or off the list in a few years. Note that Braid isn't here at all).

But also I like to look at these lists and use them to remind me that I still have a LOT of all timers to experience. Happily each year I'm addressing that a little more and the amount of unplayed gems gets a little less embarassing, but still. The Final Fantasies and Personas, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Super Mario Galaxy... these are just a few that I noted immediately. Must play more games!
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Todinho » April 3rd, 2018, 3:13 pm

6 months after profiting outta people the Shadow of War devs reached the same conclusion anyone with half a brain would before the game even released, still better late then never Im glad that the anti-lootbox sentiment seems to be having tangible results: https://kotaku.com/six-months-after-rel ... 1824270848

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Re: Videogame News

Post by Alex79uk » April 6th, 2018, 3:14 pm

Bit of a revamped Day Z hitting PC soon. I've been hoping and waiting patiently for a PlayStation release for years, and there's a line in this story that really pisses me off! They're apparently concentrating on the Xbox version before PlayStation. That's really annoying! Xbox already has State Of Decay, why not concentrate on the PS4 market which is crying out for a huge open world zombie survival game.

Disappointed, I am.

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Re: Videogame News

Post by ratsoalbion » April 11th, 2018, 12:20 am

Xbox One X owners: Red Dead Redemption has been given the enhanced treatment. Update it with the 600MB patch and effectively get treated to a free ‘remaster’, with the choice of either 60fps or 9 times the pixel count, which I think looks rather tremendous.

Same deal for Portal 2 as well!
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Re: Videogame News

Post by ADumican83 » April 11th, 2018, 7:13 am

Will all the Original XBOX games that are made BC be available on Games Pass does anybody know.

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Re: Videogame News

Post by countstex » April 11th, 2018, 8:09 am

ratsoalbion wrote:
April 11th, 2018, 12:20 am
Xbox One X owners: Red Dead Redemption has been given the enhanced treatment. Update it with the 600MB patch and effectively get treated to a free ‘remaster’, with the choice of either 60fps or 9 times the pixel count, which I think looks rather tremendous.

Same deal for Portal 2 as well!
Oh wow. Nice!
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Re: Videogame News

Post by Flabyo » April 11th, 2018, 8:25 am

They’d better fix the issues that meant you couldn’t finish Panzer Dragoon Orta EU when you played it in the 360 back compat.

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