The Nintendo news and discussion thread

[seansthomas]

I rate XC in my top ten games ever. Wonderful art design, scale, ambition and ideas. Put 100 hours into it and I think it changed open world games.

XCX tried something different but other than a similarly spectacular world, it got too complicated, weirdly put together and repetitive.

My fear is that XC2 continues that path despite the title. Just can't bring myself to want to do all that again. Sure I don't represent everyone, but I think this formula is stale now.

[Flabyo]

Why is this kind of thing so prevalent in JRPG's and anime/anime inspired media?

That... would take a very long time to answer.

A glib version would be "it's just the way it's always been", but that's probably not true.

Early on in gamedev characters had to have bright costumes with contrasting colours because otherwise you couldn't tell where the arms ended and the body began etc... (this is why Mario has dungarees on, so that on his sprite you can actually tell where his arms are)

I suspect the person most to blame for the design trend in the JRPG though is Tetsuya Nomura. Dude loves him some crazy outfits, and being the character designer on the largest and most influential series (that being Final Fantasy from around 6, oh, and Kingdom Hearts) means that people who worked with him, or worked on competing titles, will take some inspiration from it.

Same as how the basic control scheme of every console FPS has mostly solidified to the point you can usually play one right away now without needing to check which button is reload etc... Popular game lead, everyone else follows. Same as you can see shades of the art design of Little Big Planet in games made by people who have left MM and so on.

A more complex nuance is that Japanese fashion really is that bonkers. Your day to day work there requires such homogeneity (salaryman suit and tie, you will conform) that non-work fashion has become pretty extreme. Visual Kei, Ganguro, Gothic Lolita... these feed into game and anime culture (and are in turn inspired by them).

[Suits]

After getting bored of Fire Emblem Warriors pretty quick and having no real reason to go back to it when Mario Odyssey had dropped so soon after it - I reflect on it rather harshly I think but that was a purchase that I made on the basis of giving something a go that I normally wouldn't.

I fear that XC2 will suffer a similar fate but less so for the same reasons as FEW more so on the complexity of something I'm not already invested in. Or have a burning desire for.

I put some good hours into the XC on the Wii U and while I enjoyed my time with it, I always felt like I was a passenger to the game as opposed to a key element.

That said, I'll give it a go and that Pro Controller looks rather nice I think.

I've not watched the specific Direct for it and (what has already been mentioned) the E3 presentation killed anything I had for it with its rather odd showing.

[KSubzero1000]

The only explanation I have regarding these presentations is that Nintendo knows how impenetrable and off-putting the actual game is and are in full damage control mode, trying as best as they can to ease potential customers into the game ahead of release.

Either that, or their marketing team just completely dropped the ball on this one.

[Suits]

Your first point would make a lot of sense, if that’s the case.

[Craig]

A more complex nuance is that Japanese fashion really is that bonkers. Your day to day work there requires such homogeneity (salaryman suit and tie, you will conform) that non-work fashion has become pretty extreme. Visual Kei, Ganguro, Gothic Lolita... these feed into game and anime culture (and are in turn inspired by them).

I think that may be overselling those subcultures somewhat. None work fashion is pretty similar to in the West, but actually a tad more homogeneous - when there’s a trend it’s pretty easy to notice, even if you don’t follow fashion.

The more bonkers fashion is a really small set of young folk - think goths. Sure they’re about, and the style is influential in works of art and even small elements in other fashion, but most people don’t really follow them.

Recently there was an article about some models going head to toe in body paint and it was touted as a wild new fashion in Tokyo. Really, it was just a handful of folk doing something odd to get noticed.

[Flabyo]

I defer to the resident on this obviously. It has been a while since I was last out that way...

[Whippledip]

Why is this kind of thing so prevalent in JRPG's and anime/anime inspired media?

That... would take a very long time to answer.

A glib version would be "it's just the way it's always been", but that's probably not true.

Early on in gamedev characters had to have bright costumes with contrasting colours because otherwise you couldn't tell where the arms ended and the body began etc... (this is why Mario has dungarees on, so that on his sprite you can actually tell where his arms are)

I suspect the person most to blame for the design trend in the JRPG though is Tetsuya Nomura. Dude loves him some crazy outfits, and being the character designer on the largest and most influential series (that being Final Fantasy from around 6, oh, and Kingdom Hearts) means that people who worked with him, or worked on competing titles, will take some inspiration from it.

Same as how the basic control scheme of every console FPS has mostly solidified to the point you can usually play one right away now without needing to check which button is reload etc... Popular game lead, everyone else follows. Same as you can see shades of the art design of Little Big Planet in games made by people who have left MM and so on.

A more complex nuance is that Japanese fashion really is that bonkers. Your day to day work there requires such homogeneity (salaryman suit and tie, you will conform) that non-work fashion has become pretty extreme. Visual Kei, Ganguro, Gothic Lolita... these feed into game and anime culture (and are in turn inspired by them).

Oh I have no problem with crazy character designs, what I was referring to and I believe Craig was implying was the overt sexual nature of the way some of the characters are dressed. In this instance I thought it was weird that one of their very young looking female protagonists was running around in boy shorts and very visible string underwear

[Craig]

As Flabyo said before it would take a long time to answer sufficiently, and I'm sure there are entire books dedicated to this topic but a few things to consider-

1. A culture in which cuteness is highly valued. This is often conflated with youth, so you get rather young girls idolised (sometimes literally as idols). Their innocence is often part of the "allure" which is why you sometimes get scandals when members of idol groups are spotted spending the night in a hotel with someone, even when they are both of legal age.

2. A media targeted mostly at men. Idol groups have a strange demographic of 7 year old girls and middle aged men, but many games are solely aimed at men and for many companies, sex sells. The vita was still doing decently in Japan in it's twilight years, but looking at the games on the shelves most of the covers featured young anime styled girls in revealing costumes.

There's also a lot of confirmation bias going on. There are a lot of Japanese games we play that don`t feature this kind of thing (the closest Mario Odyssey had was Peach in a swimsuit), but when we see it we think "oh yeah, that's just what happens in Japanese games." It's a shame that so many do go down that route, but that kind of sexualisation happens in Western media too.

As for the questionably young girls, yeah, it makes a lot of things very uncomfortable. But it's important to realise that a lot of Japanese people find them weird and uncomfortable too. If someone at work started talking about a cute new body pillow people would quickly end the conversation and leave. Talking to the young (20s) single Japanese women I work with, they said they wouldn't date someone who was *really* into idol culture.

It's also unfortunately something that we still deal with in the West. Typing "all grown up" into the Daily Mail's search bar will make you feel like you`ve just been added to a register, and recently there were some creepy posts about how the 13 year old star of Stranger Things has suddenly grown up in front of us on the red carpet.

Even if you're okay with those aspects, it just makes everything goofy as hell. It's the same tonal problem Sonic games have when they try to take things seriously and dark, but the character designs are just so absurd it doesn't mesh.

[DomsBeard]

So I am hopefully getting a Switch on a black Friday. Do I need to get a SD card like you did for the Wii and Wii U?.

[ratsoalbion]

God yes, but a micro.

Unless you’re only going to buy and play carts.

[KSubzero1000]

Wait, I thought the WiiU didn't support SD cards as primary storage devices, only to transfer specific data. Which is why people were forced to use external HDDs instead, no? Have I been wrong all this time?

[ratsoalbion]

I use a 32GB USB flash drive in the back of mine. SD card just has the Wii stuff on it.

[KSubzero1000]

Right, okay. That makes sense. I remember people being upset at Nintendo for not allowing players to store WiiU data on SD cards.

[DomsBeard]

I use a 32GB USB flash drive in the back of mine. SD card just has the Wii stuff on it.

Cheers I will probably go for a 128gb usb one

[ratsoalbion]

No I mean I have a USB one for my Wii U. You definitely want a micro SD card which slots inside your Switch, DB.

I got this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

[Stanshall]

New shmup coming to the Switch in December, RXN Raijin:

https://youtu.be/qYgGAyCEJK0

Aside from the unnecessary voice acting and story mode/breasts observation features, this looks like a really good game. Interested to see how it turns out.

[ThirdDrawing]

I want to give the games a try as the worlds look wonderful, but every time I see the character designs and the clothing they wear I just can’t. I can do melodrama, but when everyone looks like they’ve walked out of a fetish club, I’m just taken completely out of the story.

Why is this kind of thing so prevalent in JRPG's and anime/anime inspired media? After Persona 5 I wanted to explore more media of that type, but boy they're making it difficult to get through some of it, I mean I've started to notice my own other issues with anime but that's the most common and most difficult hurdle to clear for my enjoyment.

It's Japan. It's another culture. It's what's popular there. You either roll with it or you don't. Judging an entire other culture by your standards is pretty unfair.


Anyway, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Switch tomorrow. What are some tips/advice you would give me before I buy it? What are extras I need to grab with it - IE carrying case, screen protector, classic controller etc.

Any idea how much it will cost me roughly? (Ball park figure)

I'm thinking of grabbing Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart if I can find them in English. (I'll be buying it in Hong Kong)

[Craig]

It's Japan. It's another culture. It's what's popular there. You either roll with it or you don't. Judging an entire other culture by your standards is pretty unfair.

Nah. You can have opinions about other culture's media and find some aspects of it unpalatable without it being unfair. It's also not an entire culture but rather a subset of mostly male, mostly young nerdy folk. It's also not something you have to "roll with" as there are plenty of things coming out of Japan that don't include this stuff.

Take the opposite as an example - A Japanese person talking about how they like Western games, but said all the violence made him uncomfortable. All this stuff like Mortal Kombat, God of War and Gears of War just won't cut it - they even decapitate folk for god's sake. Why does this kind of thing always work itself into Western games?

He or she wouldn't be wrong in finding those aspects uncomfortable or something they don't want in games, but it's not something they have to tolerate and there are plenty of options if they want to experience a game without that. Sure it's popular, but that doesn't mean everyone enjoys it or finds it acceptable in the West either. But I wouldn't say "I don't like the excessive violence in Western games and don't like it when I see it pop up in my game" is an unfair statement.

[Whippledip]

It's Japan. It's another culture. It's what's popular there. You either roll with it or you don't. Judging an entire other culture by your standards is pretty unfair.

Anime is Japan's entire culture?

Anyway Craig explained it better than I could, I've still found plenty of stuff I really enjoy, for instance I just finished up Kids on the Slope, thoroughly enjoyed it and was completely free of that kind of stuff.