All things Bayonetta

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future
User avatar
Scrustle
Member
Posts: 2426
Joined: November 18th, 2012, 6:02 pm

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by Scrustle »

I really should go back to this game. I got up to the second Lumen Sage fight on Infinite Climax. I was already somewhat abusing healing items up to then, but that point stopped me in my tracks. I've farmed lower difficulties for more items, but I still feel like I need to improve my skills more.
User avatar
chase210
Member
Posts: 1075
Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 11:22 am

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by chase210 »

I'm not saying its bad, I'm just not sure if I like it or not. I'll have to get back to it see how it feels.
User avatar
JaySevenZero
Admin
Posts: 2643
Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:28 pm
Location: Liverpool, Europe, Earth
Contact:

Bayonetta 2

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here is where you can leave your thoughts regarding Bayonetta 2 for possible inclusion in the podcast when it's recorded.
User avatar
Buskalilly
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: April 20th, 2014, 6:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by Buskalilly »

Let me just start by saying Bayonetta 2 is a blooming brilliant game. It just isn't quite as good as the all-time classic masterpiece its a sequel to.

I think Bayonetta 2 suffers from a lot of the problems Super Mario Galaxy 2 suffers from. In the haste to get players to the good stuff, the sense of pacing and story and a journey is lost. Bayonetta had a perfect mix of difficult and empowering, slower moments and out-and-out action. The characters were wonderfully realised and the tale was tastefully told.

Bayonetta 2 has more bosses, more action, more bombast but at times it felt like it was piled on so thick I couldn't keep up. Whereas Fly Me To The Moon was woven into Bayo's story and gameplay masterfully, Moonriver feels like its here because people expect it. Cereza in the original was precocious but lovable, whereas Loki here occasionally crossed the line into irritating. Bayonetta's enemies were tough, and every battle felt like a duel. This meant when there was a boss, it was a big deal. In Bayo 2, enemies felt a little more like cannon fodder so the bosses were piled on much more thickly.

Maybe I'd just gotten good after playing the first game quite soon before the second, but Bayonetta 2 never felt quite as challenging. This meant less frustration, certainly, but also less triumph. Where it shone- the Lumen Sage and the ending, bringing hell into the mix, the challenges and bonuses - it was brilliant. In the end, all I'm saying is this perfect game was a little less perfect than the perfect game which came before. Which isn't an especially useful thing to say.
User avatar
seansthomas
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: March 31st, 2015, 8:10 am

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by seansthomas »

Bayonetta 2's announcement was the reason to buy a Wii U I'd been looking for. I'd enjoyed the original Bayonetta on my old Xbox 360 but that hulk of a console died around the time Nintendo announced this sequel.

I'd wanted the unorthodox Nintendo machine for a while, but after the E3 unveiling of this game and the subsequent puerile fan backlash of not being multiplatform, I decided I wanted to support its creation. I had a few months to wait until it was released but I loved playing that epic first level demo over and over in the run up to release and instantly preordered the two set collectors edition; something I'm not sure I've done for any other game.

Having replayed the two Bayonetta titles several times, there is much to love about both. Whilst I know this is a podcast specifically about the sequel, due to the way the two narratives intertwine and the overarching similarities it is hard to talk about it in isolation of its forerunner.

Bayonetta 2 feels more precise, with the controls that bit tighter. A good control scheme is something that can become hynoptic and a reason to play a game alone; the Tomb Raider reboot, Arkham series, Prince of Persia Sands of Time and Super Guacamelee were all games I enjoyed primarily for the responsive command inputs and the flow you could get lost in. This game had the ability to make you feel overwhelmed by foes but, through imaginative countering and dodging, you could gradually turn an encounter your way until you're left with one weakened enemy to taunt and banish. And no discussion of this game can fail to mention the momentous Lumen Sage battles; I grinned from ear to ear during that first encounter, more than I ever have done in any one on one fighting game.

Lengthening the QTE reaction time windows slightly and reducing the overlong Sega shoot em up homages saved a lot of near perfect runs being ruined and the frustrating replaying of bosses from the original. Its a more vibrant, colourful and joyful looking game too. Enemy variety is better and on my second playthrough I realised how important it is to have good weapon sets to switch between for ranged vs close combat if you want to get decent scores. It felt to me that the weapon differences were more pronounced in 1, but that could be down to the closer camera view and weapon set I used. 

The story gets a lot of grief in these games but there are some clever touches in the finales of both, with the two games essentially becoming one neverending time loop you can replay forever. You can skip cutscenes very swiftly in 2 as well on repeat runs, which becomes welcome as Bayonetta seemed less cuttingly amusing this time around and petulant Loki bordered on intensely irritating.

The consistent scale and epicness of 2 means it doesn't have the rollercoaster feel of 1 where those huge bosses crash into your close combat battles, and the flying combat in 2 is overdone, but overall I think 2 is the better game and possibly the better entry point too. Its easier and the Umbran climax supermove means newcomers should be able to get through the game without too much frustration.

I love the Nintendo touches too such as the bonus costumes and the secret Starwing level, whilst the replay value is huge. Playing with the Link outfit for example gives you the ability to block and deflect attacks with the Hylian Shield, which felt like a very different challenge. From expanded move sets, weapons and costumes through to trophies and secret levels, I always find something new. 

All in all, Bayonetta 2 is one of the best games I've ever played. In some respects I hope Nintendo Switch gets a 3rd chapter, though as I'm not sure what it would add or where it would go next I'm torn on the merit of this. But if that never happens, I'll always be grateful to Nintendo and Platinum for finding a way to make this superior sequel a reality.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by Suits »

seansthomas wrote:All I n all, Bayonetta 2 is one of the best games I've ever played.
Bayonetta 2 is the only Wii U game I have in my collection, that I've never actually played. As embarrassing as that is, I've never actually got around to it.

With comments like that and the impending podcast this year, I'm going to have to change that.
User avatar
seansthomas
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: March 31st, 2015, 8:10 am

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by seansthomas »

Suits wrote:
seansthomas wrote:All I n all, Bayonetta 2 is one of the best games I've ever played.
Bayonetta 2 is the only Wii U game I have in my collection, that I've never actually played. As embarrassing as that is, I've never actually got around to it.

With comments like that and the impending podcast this year, I'm going to have to change that.
I recommend doing so. Obviously!

Good thing is that the first level tells you everything that you need to know. If you love it, then you're in. If you don't, then Bayonetta 2 won't be your bag.

It's the best opening level of a game I can recall.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by Suits »

I considered not posting this but obviously, eventually did, just to give another opinion I suppose.

What a weird, wonderful, game.

From the off, I really bounced off the aesthetics of this, unfortunately. The overly sexed camera angles and the style really hit me in a way that was designed to have the opposite effect. The crotch shots I found, ugly, garish and unnecessary. Something I think that perhaps gives an image to games that I like to think doesn’t exist, or a group of gamers that I like to think don’t exist. Perhaps that’s a bit harsh mind. Again, I’m sure this is perhaps a cultural deficient on my behalf but whatever way I try to explain to myself it still doesn’t fit right for my personal tastes and something I sadly wasn’t able to overcome.

The music just made me cringe too.

I like to think I have a good tolerance to stuff like this and can generally take things as they come and with a decent size chunk of salt but after the first hour I wanted to switch off all the music and cut scenes.

Controls felt really tight and really responsive. The rapid, punchy button inputs felt snappy and chunky when they needed too. The Pro controller felt great to use. The only thing I didn’t feel too at home with were the movement aspects, sometimes the way the camera would move around Cereza as the battles progressed felt a bit odd but this was perhaps a time with issue and after a more hours I’d have gotten used to the flow.

I did like the witches theme, I thought that was cool and the art was good, crisp, clear and sharp.

It’s like going to a really famous, popular restaurant but not liking anything on the menu. If I said I enjoyed it, I’d feel like I was just saying that to go with the flow. I understand the reasons and the praise that it gets mind and it’s a wonderfully polished game.

But I tried it and although I didn’t really get on with, I do appreciate my time with it and am glad that I picked it up and gave it a go.

:)
User avatar
seansthomas
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: March 31st, 2015, 8:10 am

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by seansthomas »

Suits wrote:I considered not posting this but obviously, eventually did, just to give another opinion I suppose.

What a weird, wonderful, game.

From the off, I really bounced off the aesthetics of this, unfortunately. The overly sexed camera angles and the style really hit me in a way that was designed to have the opposite effect. The crotch shots I found, ugly, garish and unnecessary. Something I think that perhaps gives an image to games that I like to think doesn’t exist, or a group of gamers that I like to think don’t exist. Perhaps that’s a bit harsh mind. Again, I’m sure this is perhaps a cultural deficient on my behalf but whatever way I try to explain to myself it still doesn’t fit right for my personal tastes and something I sadly wasn’t able to overcome.

The music just made me cringe too.

I like to think I have a good tolerance to stuff like this and can generally take things as they come and with a decent size chunk of salt but after the first hour I wanted to switch off all the music and cut scenes.

Controls felt really tight and really responsive. The rapid, punchy button inputs felt snappy and chunky when they needed too. The Pro controller felt great to use. The only thing I didn’t feel too at home with were the movement aspects, sometimes the way the camera would move around Cereza as the battles progressed felt a bit odd but this was perhaps a time with issue and after a more hours I’d have gotten used to the flow.

I did like the witches theme, I thought that was cool and the art was good, crisp, clear and sharp.

It’s like going to a really famous, popular restaurant but not liking anything on the menu. If I said I enjoyed it, I’d feel like I was just saying that to go with the flow. I understand the reasons and the praise that it gets mind and it’s a wonderfully polished game.

But I tried it and although I didn’t really get on with, I do appreciate my time with it and am glad that I picked it up and gave it a go.

:)
Yeah, I'll be honest, this being the sequel I'd gotten more climatised to how the more extreme sexualisation and tone was handled, but I recall it shocking me a lot with the original game. Would never play it in front of my wife out of slight shame.

I'm always torn as to whether she's an empowered, bold feminine icon or a geeky gaming programmers wet dream.
User avatar
Jushida
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: April 4th, 2017, 5:13 pm

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by Jushida »

Bayonetta is my favourite game of all time and despite telling myself that I wouldn't fork out for a Wii U to play the sequel, i did just that, branding it the "Bayonetta Box", as it was pretty much the only game that went in the machine.

Though ultimately I didn't find the game to be *quite* as good as Bayonetta I still hold it up to be one of the best games released that year and one of the best 3rd person action games ever made. It suffers from sequel syndrome, everything is turned up to 11 and the pacing suffers as a consequence. The first game had an amazing trajectory wherein you start fighting single angels and finishes with actually kicking God into the Sun and while Bayonetta 2 had wonderful moments I didn't feel as though it quite hit that crescendo like the first game did. In addition I feel like new enemy types were added a little too frequently, making it hard to get into any type of a rhythm and I found the story to be even more baffling than the original, though i do still enjoy the characters and setting and find the art design to be brilliant.


I like to compare my love for this game to the Toy Story trilogy. Though all the films are amazing, some are more amazing than others and this can definitely be applied to Bayonetta 2. An fantastic game, just not quite as fantastic as its predecessor.
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by ratsoalbion »

Bayonetta has popped out for PC on Steam today.
It's £14.99 and if you buy now you get some digital bonus goodies to boot:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/460790/

NB: I cannot yet vouch for the quality of the port!
User avatar
Combine Hunter
Moderator
Posts: 892
Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:40 pm

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by Combine Hunter »

Early reports are claiming it's pretty great. Sounds like some press had hands on early. :)
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by ratsoalbion »

User avatar
Stanshall
Member
Posts: 2370
Joined: January 31st, 2016, 6:45 am

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by Stanshall »

Great news for PC gamers and all but I'm a tiny bit disappointed that it's not an announcement of Bayonetta 3 on Switch!
Todinho

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by Todinho »

I never bought a game on steam so quickly!
User avatar
James
Moderator
Posts: 1763
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 5:42 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Contact:

Re: Bayonetta 2

Post by James »

ratsoalbion wrote: April 11th, 2017, 4:01 pmNB: I cannot yet vouch for the quality of the port!
I can. At least the opening Chapter (Vestibule - the graveyard and plane crash fights) is running great!

Ample graphical presets, including custom settings for those who want to tinker a bit (though Durante reckons the AA is borked and doesn't do anything). It's certainly running smooth, and while it has that HD remaster look (of a game not quite designed to run at 1080p+), it is certainly sharp.

All-in-all very happy, and at £15 I didn't hesitate for a second. :D
User avatar
Alex79
Member
Posts: 8423
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 12:36 pm
Location: Walsall, UK.
Contact:

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by Alex79 »

Bummer, I was hoping for a PS4 remaster when they teased an announcement.
Yacobg42

Re: Our next-but-one podcast recording (8.10.17): Bayonetta 2

Post by Yacobg42 »

Like a lot of people in this thread, I played a LOT of Bayonetta. Probably around 80 hours, enough to feel pretty comfortable with non-stop infinite climax, unlock jeanne, etc. Bayo becomes a completely different game when playing it that intensely- the "spectacle" of it, which is the main appeal for the first playthrough, is a complete afterthought. I kept playing for the perfectly built combat. The game kept teasing me that I could do things just a little more perfectly than I had before, and I was more than happy to oblige it.

Despite the removal of some of the more advanced techniques in bayo 2, that perfect combat system is still totally there. The problem comes, somewhat surprisingly, from the pacing of the game. The middle levels are an absolute slog of (admittedly visually spectacular) boss fights that just aren't nearly as fun to master. The AI "cheats" in a way that it rarely did in Bayonetta 1, requiring witch time to dish out damage in a way that also limits combo potential.

The standard enemies are just as fun as ever to fight, and the new weapons are an absolute blast. I think it's telling that the most fun I had with the game is in the lost chapters, which are just room after room of angels and demons to test one's skills on.

Bayonetta 2 is a great game. However, I think there was a particular brand of magic in Bayonetta 1 that Platinum just wasn't quite able to recapture.
User avatar
KSubzero1000
Member
Posts: 3365
Joined: August 26th, 2015, 9:56 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Our next podcast recording (8.10.17): Bayonetta 2

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Unfortunately, the first Bayonetta never clicked with me the way it did with so many others. I still played through it several times from beginning to end and I certainly respect what it tried to achieve, but I was never fully on board with it, for better or for worse. But as a huge fan of the genre, I felt like I had to check out the sequel and judge it on its own merits. And I'm very glad I did, because I consider Bayonetta 2 to be everything a sequel should be, albeit a safe one. The lukewarm reception it received leaves me scratching my head, for I genuinely can't think of a single way Bayonetta 2 doesn't improve on its predecessor.

First and foremost, it's an open secret that the first Bayonetta is plagued by a multitude of questionable and deeply irritating design decisions. The lengthy and frustrating arcadey levels, the mid-cutscene instant-death QTEs, the weird encounter design (burning enemies?), the inscrutable evaluation system... The sequel thankfully removed all of those and is all the better for it. I found the color palette to be much more appealing this time around and the story, while still ultimately over-the-top and nonsensical, is being presented in a much less grating manner. The weapon variety is top-notch, the dial-a-combo system has never been as smooth and satisfying as it is here, the production values are surprisingly high for a niche WiiU game, the enemy designs are creative and less repetitive than in most other action games, and the bosses strike a perfect balance between audiovisual spectacle and meaty mechanical challenge. Not to mention that the Lumen Sage fights are probably the best incarnation of the rivalry system which is a signature staple of this sub-genre. Last but not least, Rosa made me giggle every time she was on screen during the story, and I found her to be a complete joy to control later on.

One aspect I'd like to mention is the fluidity of the dual weapon setup system. My go-to setup consists of using Love Is Blue / Alruna for crowd control, long-range combat, and fight initiations only to switch to Takemikazuchi / Undine during 1-on-1 encounters or to inflict massive damage during Witch Time or Umbran Climax. I like how this setup gives me the tools to deal with pretty much every situation the game throws at me. How satisfying it is to land these sweet Takemikazuchi charge combos during Witch Time after a successful Dodge Offset! And yet, other players seem to have great success while using entirely different setups. I really like this customization aspect of the combat.

The extras are very nice as well. I haven't touched the Tag Climax mode, but getting the Pure Platinum medals for the Witch Trials was enough to keep me occupied for days after completing the main game. And the insanely challenging secret Rodin fight made me sweat and curse like a sailor until he finally went down after dozens and dozens of tries.

As great as it is, the game still has some minor flaws. Kafka is a completely useless, combo-ruining weapon (or maybe I'm simply too thick to find a proper use for it), Resentment's one-hit-kill attack can be a bit cheap, and the game does have some visibility problems when facing large or multiple enemies at the same time, which can sometimes cause the player to miss out on a crucial dodge/parry window. Nothing game-breaking, but noticeable nonetheless.

I suppose I should also touch upon the subject of Bayonetta's character design. I'm a fairly sensitive person when it comes to questionable portrayals of female characters in various media, but I consider Bayonetta to be so tongue-in-cheek and over-the-top that her particular design doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't see any malice or unfortunate real-world implications in her portrayal, merely juvenile but ultimately harmless silliness. A perfect example of "Refuge in Audacity", as far as I'm concerned.

To be frank, I really don't see what is so special about the first one which makes people turn their nose up at the sequel. I understand that the original was more of a breath of fresh air at the time of release on account of being a new IP, but the cynical part of me thinks that a lot of people were simply frustrated at the sequel's WiiU exclusivity and ended up unfairly dismissing it because of it.

In the end, while Bayonetta 2 does not reinvent the wheel, it is still a polished and deeply enjoyable game with a ton of replay value which is more than worthy of standing shoulder to shoulder with the other heavyweights in its genre. My heart will probably always belong to Ninja Gaiden Black, but I can safely say that I consider Bayonetta 2 to be my second favorite action game and the borderline flawless pinnacle of the Kamiya-esque design philosophy.


Three Words Review: Fluid, Frenetic, Fun!

PS: Short-haired Bayonetta > Long-haired Bayonetta. Obviously.

Not-so-fun fact: This game is also the only one I've ever played to genuinely make my thumb hurt after extended sessions of high-level play due to the frenetic pace of the required inputs. Although I suppose that the WiiU Pro Controller buttons apparently being made out of solid marble isn't exactly helping in that regard.
DavidFallows

Re: All things Bayonetta

Post by DavidFallows »

Hi, I'm new. Just leaving these here.







More soon, hopefully.
Post Reply