The Shenmue trilogy

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Retrothumbs

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by Retrothumbs »

arry_g wrote:As someone who never played this games (they passed me by) and the fact that a load of people are sad every E3 that a new game is not announced, please can someone explain to me what Shenmue is, why people love it so much and why it is so unfortunate that I never played them?
You know what, much like anything of it's hey day, it was probably (no, it was) so much better to play it than today! What Shenmue 1 gave/gives you is a world to be totally immersed in. The situation from the outset is an emotional one. The protaganist watches his Dad get killed at the very start then it's up to you, and only you, to seek revenge but you are in over your head. You need to journey onward to your town, and other places eventually, to get experience in life and much needed experience in martial arts. The fighting is generally QTE, so if you absolutely hate QTE in games don't bother playing it - although when you get the QTE right the video sequence of the fight looks good (well it did back in 2001-2).

Your local town is where you spend a lot of time "forming relationships" and enquiring about who saw what on this fateful day. At first the town & everything in it is alien to you, however you quickly get used to your surroundings and it feels very homely. The days are marked in in-game time and you view the daytime and night time. Certain places are open at night and others in the day etc. It looks very lovely, even today. Oh and its during Christmas too, so it has a great atmosphere to it!!

The game just goes on from there really, where you need to travel to places to get info from certain individuals and you get to the point where you need money to travel.... (you don't need to eat but you need money) :) Needless to say, you will put in an honest days work in, well a few days I think is; as a forklift driver.

Like any game though, it has its good parts and bad. Nowadays it is a bit slow in what it does but, if you have teh desire to play it and stick with it it's definitely worth seeing what all the fuss is about. Personally I enjoyed Shenmue 1 (completed it) and I've only played a quarter of Shenmue 2 - I will finish it eventually, but I just havent played it as much as Shen#1. I couldn't give a shit if Shenmue 3 comes out, if I am honest. If it did arrive I would like (for some odd weird reason) to see it released on the Dreamcast...yeah, thats never gona happen!!!
Lego Solo

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by Lego Solo »

I borrowed my brothers dreamcast back in the day and he told me a must play this game. He had both and I tried them both in the short time I had use of the console. Unfortunately I was unable to finish either as had to give it back plus I was at an age where going out drinking and girls were a higher priority (stupid boy).

I have looked into getting a dreamcast just to play these through properly. One day I may just do that.

My brother still dreams of a third game. Still clings to the hope it may one day happen. Bless him.
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Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by Flabyo »

For me it always felt a little bit like a triumph of style over substance. It was, for the time, extremely pretty. Very few games before or since have managed to build such a strong sense of place, the little town in the first game actually feels real. (And having been to a small town in Japan a few years ago, it's uncanny how many tiny details Shenmue has replicated that you might otherwise overlook when building a game world).

The gameplay doesn't live up to it though. It's sub David Cage levels of interaction with some truly awful English dub work. I'd say it might benefit from a remastering, but one that would have to include completely redoing the localisation.

I never quite got into it. But those who I know who did still rate it as one of their favourite experiences in gaming. I doubt they'd be willing to go back and play it again though...

The podcast tackled the first game in issue 62 and the second game in issue 65.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by Flabyo »

Having had a few hours sleep to reflect on it, I think the most impressive thing in the Sony event was the Guerrilla developed 'Horizon'. Mecha dinosaur hunting with bows and spears! Looked genuinely interesting.

Hopefully we'll see more of the FF7 remake at Squares event this evening, but perhaps not, no idea how far into development they are on that one.

While the Shenmue 3 thing was a wonderful announcement, I'm a little disappointed they're continuing to perpetuate the 'games are cheap to make' myth by setting a funding goal of only $2 million. There's no way you could build a Shenmue title for that. Not even close. The original game cost close to $50 million to make, and that was over a decade ago... They're just using KickStarter to prove there's an audience in order to attract investment, and I just wish they'd be more upfront about it. It makes it harder for devs that are setting realistic KickStarter funding goals to actually get funded as the public is being given a false idea of how much games cost to make.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by ratsoalbion »

Flabyo wrote:While the Shenmue 3 thing was a wonderful announcement, I'm a little disappointed they're continuing to perpetuate the 'games are cheap to make' myth by setting a funding goal of only $2 million. There's no way you could build a Shenmue title for that. Not even close. The original game cost close to $50 million to make, and that was over a decade ago... They're just using KickStarter to prove there's an audience in order to attract investment, and I just wish they'd be more upfront about it. It makes it harder for devs that are setting realistic KickStarter funding goals to actually get funded as the public is being given a false idea of how much games cost to make.
Couldn't agree more with this.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by hazeredmist »

Am I the only one who thinks it's not really alright to employ Kickstarter for something as big as Shenmue? Like Flabyo says the funding goal is entirely unrealistic anyway, and I fail to believe that with the Shenmue licence there wouldn't be investment available without begging for it from the public. On the biggest gaming stage on the calendar? How cynical can Sony be to try and '"win E3"?

I'm not the biggest fan of crowdfunding projects as it is but this doesn't feel right. I also think we look back at Shenmue with rose tinted specs a lot of the time, and a new sequel can't possibly live up to expectations so I'm not getting excited. I'm certainly not pledging money towards such a large scale project that has no business busking in the first place.

If I'm being overly harsh here please do tell me to wind my neck in.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by DomsBeard »

Yes the originals cost a lot but surely it would be cheaper now to produce?. It wouldn't surprise me if it went episodic at some point down the line.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by ratsoalbion »

DomsBeard wrote:Yes the originals cost a lot but surely it would be cheaper now to produce?
That depends entirely upon whether the aim is to achieve state-of-the-art 2000 style or state-of-the-art 2015 style I would think.
MAp

Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by MAp »

I was expecting a Shenmue 1 & 2 "Definitive Edition" with the Kickstarter announcement, but I'm guessing Sega are somehow not involved or they're worried playing the originals in 2015 would put a few people off funding the project ;)
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by mikeleddy83 »

ratsoalbion wrote:That depends entirely upon whether the aim is to achieve state-of-the-art 2000 style or state-of-the-art 2015 style I would think.
The footage looks to be a hybrid, fair updates on existing templates and a retro style fitted over it. Of course the money wouldn't cover it but it's likely to be budgeted lower than most seem to think.
MAp wrote:I was expecting a Shenmue 1 & 2 "Definitive Edition" with the Kickstarter announcement, but I'm guessing Sega are somehow not involved or they're worried playing the originals in 2015 would put a few people off funding the project ;)
Sega have given their blessings and the use of the licence to Yu, they however have the say on any HD re-release of 1 & 2.

Here is the kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by JaySevenZero »

I have to say that the whole Yu Suzuki/Shenmue 3/Kickstarter was the only part that made me roll my eyes and sigh.

There's no denying Suzuki has had an impressive career but for the past decade a lot of the projects he's been attached to have been commercial failures or been cancelled before they even got off the ground and I can't shake the feeling that he may very well have fallen out of touch with where the culture is at this point. The whole Kickstarter thing smacked somewhat of the stench of desperation to me, with it coming off as an almost last ditch attempt to maintain relevancy in a medium that has long since left him behind.

Whilst I did enjoy Shenmue back in 1999 (the 2001 sequel less so), I don't think it's a game that has aged well and videogames have moved way beyond the precedents set by that title in the 16 years since. I believe there's a lot of rose-tinted nostalgia floating about regarding this title especially when you remember that both previous games were commercially disappointing when it came to actual sales, which possibly accounts for why no-one wanted to fund another sequel for 14 years.

My thoughts are that this whole venture is gonna end in varying degrees of disappointment for those expecting something great.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by ratsoalbion »

I can't help but agree. A further splash of cold water to the face is that according to Yu Suzuki, Shenmue's development cost was $47m (equivalent to $67 million in 2015). What exactly do they hope to do with a mere fraction of that?

Of course, it goes without saying that I genuinely hope the resulting project is a beautiful thing that is embraced buy the fans and gives them the satisfying, emotional conclusion that they deserve.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by JaySevenZero »

I don't wish him failure and I'd prefer to see him succeed but I have little confidence in that happening. I think, to echo Flabyo's post, that the Kickstarter is there simple to prove there's an audience, however I also believe that most of the people who would have actually bought the finished game have already done so via this very campaign (pledge $29 and get a digital copy for either PC or PS4) so unless he can make the game for under the money raised I find it hard to see how this could be seen as a commercially viable project from a publisher's perspective?
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by Beck »

I'm indiffirent about Shenmue3, I really wanted it at one point but when I woke up the news I was not excited at all. I have fond memories of the first one and really enjoyed the second game but I was put off revisiting them after listening to your shows. Please don't take that negatively, the shows were great, as always. I've come to realise that the Shenmue games were very good at the their time but that time has moved on and I'd rather keep the good memories than risk them with revisiting them and undoubtely comparing them with what is available now. If Shenmue 3 reviews well then I'll pick it up, if not then it isn't a problem for me.

I've really enjoyed E3. I think I enjoyed the Microsoft conference the most, I really like the way Phil Spencer has changed the brand of Xbox around. I found the backward compatability options really interesting and I'm looking forward to reading more about it. It's an amazing technological achievement especially when you consider the cross console online features. I also found the hololens really cool, I've no experience with the VR stuff that is coming so it was a shock to see. I can't see it working like that with Xbox One but it was really nice to see.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by James »

I'm a big fan of the Shenmue games, and would love to see some sort of resolution to the series, but I also have to be realistic when it comes to the Shenmue III Kickstarter. The $2m goal really has to be solely a proof of interest to entice other funding groups (publisher, etc). And, as Jay said, given the die hard fans have already plonked their $29 down, gauging the financial viability might not be that easy for a prospective publisher.

Paradoxically, I'm not backing the Kickstarter; I'd rather wait and buy the finished games if/when that arrives. I know that attitude isn't helping to get Shenmue III made, but (like you guys have all said) $2m is less than 5% of what the game will cost to make.

I'm still hopeful that we see a fitting end to the Shenmue series, even if that has to be more scaled-back than the Dreamcast games. But, yeah, expectation in check a little for this.

Lots of interesting news coming out of E3 so far. I generally take everything E3-related with a pinch of salt, or rather, I try to keep the various announcements in perspective, but I came away from the conferences feeling quite positive. There's a diversity amongst the games shown and announced that I found refreshing.

Oh, and a Nier game... by Platinum. :D
MAp

Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by MAp »

I watched one of the E3 interview with Yu Suzuki on Shenmue III and I get the feeling this one may be slightly more linear than the previous two. Which sounds more realistic in terms of budget, but why come back to the series to make a game unlike the two games people hold dearly.
And if it is closer to the originals I really don't think people want that game. Not to turn this into a Shenmue thread but I wonder if the average person was impressed by Shenmue more than liked what it was doing, I remember loving it's more sedate little village/town vibe with moments of action, but sadly I'm not sure that is a $67 million game that makes it's money back. So yay for me, but maybe not the people who's careers depend on Shenmue III's success.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by hazeredmist »

JaySevenZero wrote:I have to say that the whole Yu Suzuki/Shenmue 3/Kickstarter was the only part that made me roll my eyes and sigh.

There's no denying Suzuki has had an impressive career but for the past decade a lot of the projects he's been attached to have been commercial failures or been cancelled before they even got off the ground and I can't shake the feeling that he may very well have fallen out of touch with where the culture is at this point. The whole Kickstarter thing smacked somewhat of the stench of desperation to me, with it coming off as an almost last ditch attempt to maintain relevancy in a medium that has long since left him behind.

Whilst I did enjoy Shenmue back in 1999 (the 2001 sequel less so), I don't think it's a game that has aged well and videogames have moved way beyond the precedents set by that title in the 16 years since. I believe there's a lot of rose-tinted nostalgia floating about regarding this title especially when you remember that both previous games were commercially disappointing when it came to actual sales, which possibly accounts for why no-one wanted to fund another sequel for 14 years.

My thoughts are that this whole venture is gonna end in varying degrees of disappointment for those expecting something great.
You've said a lot of things that echo my post earlier in the thread that seems to have got lost in the ether. Glad someone (and others) agree.
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Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by James »

I think the closest we got to anything about Bravely Second was in the credits for the new Nier project. It seemed like a perfect place to run a brief trailer and give a release date; a strange omission, for sure.

Getting things back onto Shenmue...

MAp, obviously I can't speak for the fans of Shenmue, but I'd gladly take a linear, narrative-focussed game if it gave some closure to the story. As an open-world exploration game, it'd have to go some to compete with modern expectations, and (as we mentioned on the podcast, and has been pointed out here) the originals are not user-friendly by today's standards.
MAp

Re: E3 2015 - Conference times, news and hype (!)

Post by MAp »

iwatttfodiwwfa wrote:MAp, obviously I can't speak for the fans of Shenmue, but I'd gladly take a linear, narrative-focussed game if it gave some closure to the story. As an open-world exploration game, it'd have to go some to compete with modern expectations, and (as we mentioned on the podcast, and has been pointed out here) the originals are not user-friendly by today's standards.
I feel Shenmue has more in common with the likes of Gone Home in creating a personal lived in space, rather than the sprawling GTAs. But yes I think Shenmue is getting a closure to it's narrative, rather a continuation of it's overall spirit.
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Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by James »

Well, Shenmue is currently being Kickstarted back to life. There's been a lot of natter about it on the E3 thread, but I figured I'd dust this thread off for the conversation to continue.

I'm at work at the mo', but will try to pop a couple of relevant links in here once I get home. The headline story (so far) is that Shenmue III appeared at the Sony E3 conference and has been funded on Kickstarter to the tune of in excess of $2m.
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