Dishonored

[Roy42]

Can someone give me an average playtime for the main campaign so I know if I'll be able to play it in time?

[JaySevenZero]

That depends heavily on how you choose to play the game. Choosing combat over stealth obviously reduces the time it may take for the main campaign.

I'd say it on average it'll take around 15–20 hours, give or take.

[ratsoalbion]

How Long To Beat is a great resource for such queries:
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2602

[Bakers_12]

Loved the style and story of the game, but had a few problems with the structure of how the levels work together and a few game play issues.
I found the first few few levels very hard to be stealthy as the game clearly wants you to try and be, then once you start to get a few new powers under your belt it be comes a lot easier to be the shadowy finger that you should be only to change the level structure from a hitmansque style to a get from A to B style and removing the compulsion I had to Try (and fail) to ghost the levels

As for the game play issues. Leaning? Really? I think this should never made it into the game, a cover mechanic like that of Deus Ex:HR would have worked so much better.

On the whole I really enjoyed this game and to me felt like a good introduction to the world which can be built upon and expanded to make a truly amazing game.

[James]

I'm going to replay a few of the missions and try the Knife Of Dunwall DLC before the podcast, but I've thought less and less of Dishonored [sic] with distance from it. Here's hoping that diving back in prove to be a refreshing experience.

[Electric Crocosaurus]

Dishonored is a game that I was looking forward to for a long time. The involvement of a number of people behind games that I love was more than enough to pique my interest: Harvey Smith and Ricardo Bare from Deus Ex, and Viktor Antonov from Half-life 2. When I finally got my hands on the game I have to admit that I was initially disappointed. The mechanics felt imprecise, and the design of the characters and HUD felt off in a way that I couldn't put my finger on. Yet over the course of the first few missions I found myself warming up to the game, and eventually I realised that I was having a really good time. While I still dislike the big-handed design of the characters, the city of Dunwall is a beautiful environment to explore. I went for a stealthy play-through on hard with no kills (I'm planning on a second play-through where I act as the most murderous bastard possible soon) and the game definitely put up a decent challenge. I was disappointed by the mid-plot 'twist' (is it a twist if you see it coming from a mile away?) as I felt the following few hours of gameplay were dull and repetitive. Yet the game soon picked up again, and the bittersweet tone that the game finishes on felt really satisfying to me.

I feel Dishonored was a very good start, but I would expect the inevitable sequel to be a big improvement. The environments in Dishonored never felt as big or as side-mission packed as I would have liked them (a criticism I also felt towards Deus Ex: HR), and I would expect the freedom of next generation hardware will allow the designers to realise their vision of this world on a much larger canvas (I want to go on one of those whaling boats!).

[Todinho]

Having never played any of the Thief games my only real experience with first person stealth was with Deus EX and a couple other games like fallout new vegas that have stealth in them so I was really excited to see what this game was all about(even if it's marketing didnt help make me want too,seriously "revenge solves everything" must be one of the most stupid phrases I've seen to market a game)In the end I was both impressed and disappointed,on one hand the gameplay was very fun and slick with multiple ways to solve a level depending on your play style and with alot to discover if you care enough to explore but never punishing you for just blasting through.On the other hand though the story is terrible,the world of Dishonored is interesting and there's some cool characters but on the whole the story just doesnt work for me,things just happen for soem reason and you're supposed to care the fact that Corvo is silent to everything that happens around him doesnt help much either.

On the whole I really liked the game and if one thing it has made me want to play the Thief games to see how the play,I just felt bad that the mechanics had to serve such a weak story.

[SnakeyDave]

Hey,

I wrote this a while back about the silent protagonist issue. In short I don't mind silent protagonists, but in this game it didn't fit.

http://www.gonzoplanet.com/2012/11/28/d ... orvo-talk/

As for game in general. I love it, despite its flaws. When I examine it from a distance I know it's got problems, but there really is something about the moment to moment gameplay; blinking across rooftops dagger-in-hand feels very engaging and fun to me. The flexibility of the game is to be commended as well, again, even though it doesn't really hang together properly. All of the games toys seem to be mostly centred on killing, which is an issue as the game only really 'works' in stealth (for me at least), and both the world and your upgrade system don't seem as fully developed as they could have been. As for the narrative: the characters are crap and the plot's even worse. It's a shame because the setting and art design are so good. Feels like such a waste of potential. There are a lot of games that I acknowledge are great but have issues or problems which distract me. Dishonored however, has massive issues, but when I play it, I just don't really care. There really is a lot to be said for a good art style and a fun central mechanic.

[Todinho]

Hey,

I wrote this a while back about the silent protagonist issue. In short I don't mind silent protagonists, but in this game it didn't fit.

http://www.gonzoplanet.com/2012/11/28/d ... orvo-talk/

Yep this pretty much sums it up what I felt about Corvo in the game,we dont get even the journal narrations of Metro it's very little but at least is something,like you said is not something that bother you alot in half-life but it still bother me in that game I mean the dude is a PhD that one day was doing experiments to a super soldier killing by the truckloads I would've liked at least a comment about it for now I just imagine he's just like Freeman's Mind it's the only way it makes sense

[SnakeyDave]

Hey,

Just realised I started that comment like an email. Silly me.

[RoboticMonk3y]

I'm a terrible person, I'll start out my post saying that.
I really am.
I love the look of this game, that steam-punky look to the game, I find interesting. I like the look of the gameplay, there are some truly inspired/mental videos out there showing how people have bent and twisted the gameplay mechanics to make some pretty remarkable things happen... but... I never bought the game. The title of the game was a mental stumbling block. Sure the spelling of the title is written in 'merican, but that's not what stopped me.
look...

What do you see?

Title of the game, a guy wearing some kind of mask, with a stabby knife and magic glowing hand? some post-apocalyptic steam-punky background? all wrapped up in an atmospheric grey colour theme (should write that as colour?).
Sure all of those things are there, but all I see is the word "Dish"

Just there floating at the top...

looking at me..





I can't get over it...

I'm a terrible person...

[NokkonWud]

I don't see it? :/

[James]

Dredging up this thread, because I've recently dredged up this game. Can't quite fathom that it's been (nearly) 5 years since I first played it.

Anyway, as I mentioned on Issue 88, I didn't quite take to Dishonored. Nonetheless, after playing Prey last month, I wanted to give Dishonored 2 a look. Long story short, I replayed the first game, and also played both story DLCs in the past couple of weeks.

I'm still troubled by how this series sets narrative and mechanics almost at odds with one-another. Much of the fleshing out of the world is done environmentally, and via books, notes, side objectives and NPC conversations that require a lot exploration to discover. On the other hand, a non-lethal, stealthy and/or 'Mostly Flesh And Steel' playstyle, I feel, encourages the player to make a beeline for the objective, ignoring much of the world.

A conundrum largely of my own making, for sure. I just can't not go for 0 kills and 0 alerts if the possibility is there.

*Mild Dishonored 2 spoilers ahead*

Which neatly leads me on to Dishonored 2. Non-lethality and a ghost-like demeanour are a given, but I'm still faced with a massive tug of war between narrative and mechanics. I like the idea of playing as Emily; a new character to explore, with new powers and different motives to Corvo. I feel like there are different, but equally compelling, reasons why she may accept or shirk the offer of powers from the Outsider.

Likewise, with Corvo, I can easily posit different reasoning that would lead him to take or refuse the powers. Which leaves me in a bit of a pickle, because I feel like I ought to try out Emily's powers, but (on the surface) they don't excite me quite like the Blink/Bend Time combo of Corvo's. Plus, I can't ignore the fact that whilst I enjoyed my recent "no powers" playthrough of the first game, it afforded Blink to the player, where D2 does not.

So, here I sit, with 2 decisions to make (Emily or Corvo? Powers or no powers?) and not a bleeding clue as to which way to go.

In short: James can't make decisions and Dishonored 2 ain't helping that fact.

Any and all advice gratefully received!

[Todinho]

Im on the same boat as you when it comes to Dishonored in fact I was waiting to see how your reaction to the sequel would be so I could make my mind if I should pick it up or not XD, just going from the first game though I cant fathom playing that game without blink I think it would make the game alot more tedious especially given the verticality of the maps and how cones of vision work.

[James]

Yeah, I'm interested to see how it plays. Though, I do wonder if it'll come down to scouting the map, looking for the one (or maybe two) ways to sneak through without powers. I certainly spent a good few minutes trying to make a jump that would have taken less than a second with Blink/Far Reach. Thankfully, there were no enemies around to see or hear my ridiculous efforts, but this is early in the game.

I've read more than one person compare playing Dishonored 2 without powers to the original Thief games. Fitting, given that Stephen Russell (the original Garrett) provided the voice of Corvo in D2. Perhaps, like in those games, there will be ample technological and environmental solutions.

I will absolutely keep you posted on how I find Dishonored 2. Once I've figured out my dilemma, that is.

[Chopper]

This is a tough one! I haven’t played it either, but have heard second and third hand that Emily is ‘more fun’ to play. You also have a new character to get to know.

That said, apparently Corvo is more fleshed out as a character this time round, and his style favors a ghost/no kill run. Emily can do that too, but it’s slightly more difficult.

I’m afraid you’ll have to do it twice, low chaos with Corvo and high with Emily

That leads to another problem though - what if your Emily is not a high chaos-type of person?

Interesting point about finding all the story beats in D1 was not complimentary to a stealth run. I’m having the inverse problem in Deus Ex MK, where the sheer amount of avenues available are revealing too much story ahead of time. I think the player would be better sticking to the story and ignoring extraneous vents, ladders etc in that game, until they directly affect the storyline.

These are wonderful games though.

[James]

I'm a low chaos kinda player, so both Emily and Corvo are too, for me.

I paused with a 'No Powers' Emily run in Karnaca (still very early), to start a powered Corvo run. Given that both are going to be ghostly and non-lethal, I figured I can play through with Blink first to really explore the areas, and then carry on with Emily afterwards, once I have a feel for where I'm likely to be able to go.

I do like that Dishonored and Deus Ex (HR & MD) handle providing the player multiple paths very differently from one-another. In Deus Ex, it's usually very obvious which routes are available, based on which abilities you've unlocked (heavy lifting, hacking, higher jump, etc.)

Though Dishonored definitely has ability-dependent options (like the rat grates), it always seems more possible to fudge your way through with different combinations of powers and persistence.

Completely agree, Chopper, both wonderful series, with their own, distinct quirks and styles.

[James]

From the Games Completed 2017 thread:

Where the Dishonored series is concerned, I think I'm coming to something of a conclusion; I really enjoy the pace and focus of the shorter stories versus the sprawling narrative of the main series titles.

Levels like the Boyle Mansion masked ball and the Clockwork Mansion (what is it about mansions, eh?) allow Arkane to showcase their level design, mission design and darkly-twisted sense of humour. Too often though, I find myself caught between exploration (to gather resources and flesh out the world) and stealth (avoiding enemies and skirting around/over the world) in a way that leaves me feeling slightly dissatisfied with both.

I realise that's not a particularly informative observation, but it's something that bothers me much less in recent Deus Ex games (HR or MD), for example, and not at all in Prey, where a stealthy playstyle was entirely situational. Limiting playstyle by skills or by a morality scale is something that figures into all these series, but I think I'm encouraged to be more flexible and creative in how I play the moment-to-moment in Prey, BioShock, the original Deus Ex, and System Shock than in Dishonored.

That's where the shorter DLC campaigns, The Knife Of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches, come into their own for me. The reduced number of areas really seems to pull focus towards the game's strengths, and make for a much tighter story. Gone are the missions that take away your gear or abilities; used to provide variety, but I find them more frustrating than refreshing. Perhaps the issue is that my glacial pace of play stretches a 12 hour narrative out to something more than twice that. Nonetheless, the short campaign retains a sharpness that I much prefer. I think Minerva's Den is a good comparison, though (as mentioned above) I feel that BioShock fares much better than Dishonored in the longer form.

I wanted to put this observation up here now, because I fully intend to bounce onto Death Of The Outsider and that should be a good test of my feelings right after finishing Dishonored 2. One thing I can be sure about, however, is that the immersive sim itch I've had for more than a decade now is only growing stronger.