Whatcha Been Playing?

[KSubzero1000]

Could you elaborate a little bit more, the reinforment thing I remember being pretty annoying but other then that I thought awakening was mechanically sound, now from what I understand long time Fire Emblem fans like yourselves dont seem to like awakening all that much but I dont think I ever got why. I think you might've gone into it before but if you dont mind could go into it again?
Also what is your assessement of Fates is it better in your eyes or does it continues on a wrong path?

Sure! Here is my original post in which I summed up my thoughts as to what I find so rewarding about the traditional FE meta-game and why Awakening is so lacking in comparison: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1033#p35410

Also, I can wholeheartedly recommend this particular article that goes into even more depth and describes the underlying issues with Awakening's design better than I ever could. In my opinion, this is a must-read if you're interested in TRPGs: http://thephilosogamer.blogspot.de/2014 ... oming.html

But I don't mind going over it again! To put it simply: grinding is not tactically rewarding and basically ruins everything. The best Fire Emblem games are based on carefully designed maps with varied win conditions. Their difficulty is balanced so that the player should learn how to navigate each map instead of brute-forcing his or her way through them. Awakening more or less threw all that fine-tuning out of the window in favor of Disgaea-style grinding opportunities and overpowered, RNG-based skills. There is nothing tactical about pairing up your two best units with S-rank support, parking them in the middle of the map and hoping their skills will activate in order let them solo the entire army. Furthermore, reclassing takes away what little individuality the characters may otherwise have.

In short, Fire Emblem should be closer to chess than to Pokémon. That pretty much sums it up. The appeal of the traditional Fire Emblem games lies in the intricacies and careful balance of their design. Awakening, on the other hand, is pure quantity over quality. Even with all its undeniable QoL improvements and production values. So yes, it is mechanically "sound", but it's also incredibly shallow and unsatisfying in comparison to previous games in the series. Awakening simply requires so much less actual thinking and strategizing.

There is also the issue of the dumbed-down, cliché-ridden narrative. Traditional Fire Emblem aren't exactly highbrow literature, but their plots are usually a lot more serious and substantial than Awakening's, with the Tellius games being notable standouts (I'll even go on record and claim that Path of Radiance has the best narrative of any Nintendo first party game). The fact that almost every character is reduced to a walking punchline (aka flanderization) doesn't help either.

Also, don't even get me started on the game's obsession with romantic matchmaking and accompanying "fan-service". Fire Emblem had romantic couples in previous games, but they were almost always done tastefully, lots of them were open to interpretation, and they never dominated the game's support system to the point of attracting the Dating Sim crowd.

Fates is... better-ish. the Birthright path is basically the same as Awakening with all the grinding and simplistic map design. The Conquest path attempts to address the issue, but tries so hard to make every map stand out that the end result often feels gimmicky and artificial. The game also makes a lot of small changes to various gameplay mechanics for no apparent reason, which makes it a bit difficult to dive into for long-time fans of the series. But the main issue is with the plot. The concept in itself is fantastic (explore the two opposite sides of a war of aggression), but the execution falls completely flat, especially in the Conquest path. What could have been a Flags of our Fathers / Letters from Iwo Jima - style harrowing depiction of the moral complexities of war ends up being a borderline incomprehensible, tonally disjointed story with incoherent characterizations and full of unearned moments. Radiant Dawn tried to do something similar and was ten times better. The narrative in Fates is straight up garbage. Steaming pile of wasted potential. The fact that the two main paths are made to tease the "true" third DLC path just makes everything worse.

If you ask me, Echoes is by far the best of the 3DS titles. It's a remarkably faithful remake, which unfortunately means it's being held back by the odd systems and bare-boned map design of the original. But it has a fantastic localization, graphical style, voice acting and soundtrack. It also has a very old-school charm to it that I haven't really felt in any of the other localized entries in the series.


If you still have any more questions after that, I'll be more than happy to answer them.

[Michiel K]

In short, Fire Emblem should be closer to chess than to Pokémon. That pretty much sums it up.

In a very wonderful and succinct way, yeah. *Applause*

I've read bits and pieces of that article, by the way. One of these days I'll give it the full read through.

[OneCreditBen]

Batman Returns - SNES

Seems to make perfect sense playing this on a cold winter's evening. Yet another cracker from Konami's early to mid 90's schedule.

[Flabyo]

Started in on Mafia 3.

The opening few hours are pretty linear, but really atmospheric. The framing device they’re using is very clever and one I suspect a future gta might well borrow.

After that, when the open world part starts properly, it gets a bit less interesting. The bigger story missions remain excellent, but the smaller side missions and the basic ‘tasks you do to move the game on’ are pretty basic and repetitive.

Definite bonus points for the atmosphere of the setting and for fully embracing the political aspects of the setting rather than brushing them aside. Many people will find some of this pretty uncomfortable I suspect.

[Todinho]

Could you elaborate a little bit more, the reinforment thing I remember being pretty annoying but other then that I thought awakening was mechanically sound, now from what I understand long time Fire Emblem fans like yourselves dont seem to like awakening all that much but I dont think I ever got why. I think you might've gone into it before but if you dont mind could go into it again?
Also what is your assessement of Fates is it better in your eyes or does it continues on a wrong path?

Sure! Here is my original post in which I summed up my thoughts as to what I find so rewarding about the traditional FE meta-game and why Awakening is so lacking in comparison: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1033#p35410

Also, I can wholeheartedly recommend this particular article that goes into even more depth and describes the underlying issues with Awakening's design better than I ever could. In my opinion, this is a must-read if you're interested in TRPGs: http://thephilosogamer.blogspot.de/2014 ... oming.html

But I don't mind going over it again! To put it simply: grinding is not tactically rewarding and basically ruins everything. The best Fire Emblem games are based on carefully designed maps with varied win conditions. Their difficulty is balanced so that the player should learn how to navigate each map instead of brute-forcing his or her way through them. Awakening more or less threw all that fine-tuning out of the window in favor of Disgaea-style grinding opportunities and overpowered, RNG-based skills. There is nothing tactical about pairing up your two best units with S-rank support, parking them in the middle of the map and hoping their skills will activate in order let them solo the entire army. Furthermore, reclassing takes away what little individuality the characters may otherwise have.

In short, Fire Emblem should be closer to chess than to Pokémon. That pretty much sums it up. The appeal of the traditional Fire Emblem games lies in the intricacies and careful balance of their design. Awakening, on the other hand, is pure quantity over quality. Even with all its undeniable QoL improvements and production values. So yes, it is mechanically "sound", but it's also incredibly shallow and unsatisfying in comparison to previous games in the series. Awakening simply requires so much less actual thinking and strategizing.

There is also the issue of the dumbed-down, cliché-ridden narrative. Traditional Fire Emblem aren't exactly highbrow literature, but their plots are usually a lot more serious and substantial than Awakening's, with the Tellius games being notable standouts (I'll even go on record and claim that Path of Radiance has the best narrative of any Nintendo first party game). The fact that almost every character is reduced to a walking punchline (aka flanderization) doesn't help either.

Also, don't even get me started on the game's obsession with romantic matchmaking and accompanying "fan-service". Fire Emblem had romantic couples in previous games, but they were almost always done tastefully, lots of them were open to interpretation, and they never dominated the game's support system to the point of attracting the Dating Sim crowd.

Fates is... better-ish. the Birthright path is basically the same as Awakening with all the grinding and simplistic map design. The Conquest path attempts to address the issue, but tries so hard to make every map stand out that the end result often feels gimmicky and artificial. The game also makes a lot of small changes to various gameplay mechanics for no apparent reason, which makes it a bit difficult to dive into for long-time fans of the series. But the main issue is with the plot. The concept in itself is fantastic (explore the two opposite sides of a war of aggression), but the execution falls completely flat, especially in the Conquest path. What could have been a Flags of our Fathers / Letters from Iwo Jima - style harrowing depiction of the moral complexities of war ends up being a borderline incomprehensible, tonally disjointed story with incoherent characterizations and full of unearned moments. Radiant Dawn tried to do something similar and was ten times better. The narrative in Fates is straight up garbage. Steaming pile of wasted potential. The fact that the two main paths are made to tease the "true" third DLC path just makes everything worse.

If you ask me, Echoes is by far the best of the 3DS titles. It's a remarkably faithful remake, which unfortunately means it's being held back by the odd systems and bare-boned map design of the original. But it has a fantastic localization, graphical style, voice acting and soundtrack. It also has a very old-school charm to it that I haven't really felt in any of the other localized entries in the series.


If you still have any more questions after that, I'll be more than happy to answer them.

Well that was pretty in depth thanks, I also read a little bit of the article and two things really struck a cord on me the objectives and the maps, yeah objectives in awakeing are pretty simplistic(yet more varied the Tatics Ogre which only has one) and seeing that map with the bridge I remember clearlly just going to the choke point and waiting and that was not the only map I did this on.

While we are at it what do you think of the support system? It's my favorite part of awakening and I really like the overall concept of the more units fight together the more synergized they become, it's also really usefull to recue units in a bind like pairing up a mage that about to die with a knight. I really like that whole aspect but in retrospect I dont know if that takes away some of the strategy.

[countstex]

Jumped into Tacoma after my wife played it yesterday. Such a great mechanic for a game to be based around. Better detective work than most detective games.

[KSubzero1000]

While we are at it what do you think of the support system? It's my favorite part of awakening and I really like the overall concept of the more units fight together the more synergized they become, it's also really usefull to recue units in a bind like pairing up a mage that about to die with a knight. I really like that whole aspect but in retrospect I dont know if that takes away some of the strategy.

I adore the support system and I think it's one of the series' biggest strengths. In fact, it's one the reasons why I'm not as enthusiastic about FE 1 to 5 as other classic fans are (the support system was first introduced in Fire Emblem 6). The reason I like it so much is because it rewards patient and dedicated players in a way that complements both gameplay and characterization. If the player sticks with the same two characters long enough to keep them alive and help them overcome their initial hurdles, they are ultimately rewarded by a usually well-written conversation and some nice stats bonus. Since grinding is usually not an option (or at least, not like in Awakening), it also means that the final supports will only be unlocked towards the end of the story, acting as subtle little subplots parallel to the main storyline. It also has the advantage of allowing the writers to incorporate elements of the main plots into the supports. This directly benefits characterization: after all, people aren't static and will have different things to say according to the events they just experienced. It's also much more believable to witness characters open up to who was initially a complete stranger after spending weeks fighting alongside one another. The gameplay bonuses, on the other hand, hit the sweet spot between being substantial enough to be noticeable, but not overpowered enough to completely break the game and dictate the entire meta-game like in Awakening. You can easily play the entire game without unlocking a single support, but it certainly does feel nice when you do.

Unlocking an A support conversation in Path of Radiance feels like eating the cherry on top of an already delicious cake. Doing the same in Awakening feels like adding artificial yeast to the basic dough. It's undoubtedly useful, but it's nowhere near as special or satisfying. Perfect example of "less is more".

Case in point, here's an example of one of FE9's best supports: (minor FE9 spoilers).
It's significantly less wordy than what you'd find in Awakening, but it somehow manages to have a proper three-act structure and a minor story to tell. The fact that every conversation can only be unlocked after specific events in the main plot adds to the dramatic weight and gives the player a true sense of getting to know these two characters that they've decided to stick with over the course of the game. Now contrast that to Awakening's folks making cake jokes or trying to pork each other all day long and the difference is like night and day.


Now onto the second part of your post, which is the Pair Up system. To put it simply, I hate it, and that's because it indeed trivializes the tactical gameplay. There is almost no reason not to use it on account of the absurd bonuses it grants the characters. Classic FE games expect the player to look after their weak and slow characters like mages by way of clever positioning and thinking a few steps ahead. In Awakening, all you have to do is pair them up with a more survivable unit and send the two of them to boost each other in the middle of the battlefield for some quick XP. Granting invulnerability to weak units and stat buffs to strong ones at the same time is an absolutely brain-dead mechanic.

Please note that the rescue function you mentioned is actually a thing in the older FE titles. But it is only intended as a last resort in order to save your vulnerable units from their impending doom. In fact, the unit initiating the rescue will actually suffer a minor stat penalty instead of a buff (!), so as to reflect the fact that they are carrying a wounded unit on their backs. And that in turn grants special importance to mounted units who can ferry others with ease thanks to their additional mobility options.

In short, the classic chain of events is: Weak unit is exposed to imminent danger > Send a (preferably mounted) strong unit to rescue them > Ferry them over to your healer > Put them down somewhere safe > Return to normal combat.

Instead of: Pair everyone Up during Turn 1 because why wouldn't you > Stomp the enemy.


All of that and more adds up to me firmly believing that Awakening, while accessible and fun in its own right, is ultimately an incredibly shallow and badly designed game, especially when compared to its predecessors. But I suppose it's the price you have to pay in order to gain mass appeal and break sales record in a niche genre like this.

[Todinho]

Oh I thought the support stuff was new to Awakening and from what you said this rescue system seems more interesting and logical then the pair up, I think I might want to go back and play Path of Radiance( I think, that's the one with Ike right?) and see the differences.

[KSubzero1000]

Oh I thought the support stuff was new to Awakening and from what you said this rescue system seems more interesting and logical then the pair up, I think I might want to go back and play Path of Radiance( I think, that's the one with Ike right?) and see the differences.

No, although Awakening brought back the support system in full force after Radiant Dawn got rid of the support conversations and the remakes in-between used very simplistic versions of it. But FE6, FE7, FE8 and FE9 all use it. It's the Pair Up system that was new to Awakening.

Can't go wrong with PoR, it's one of the best titles in the entire series. It is indeed the GameCube title with Ike. Might be a bit difficult to find a genuine copy nowadays though, and I'd recommend turning off the animations if you do play it. Have fun!

[rob25X]

Batman Returns - SNES

Seems to make perfect sense playing this on a cold winter's evening. Yet another cracker from Konami's early to mid 90's schedule.

Wow, that's an old one.

A couple of nights ago I was thinking about an old Batman game on the SNES, couldn't rememember the title... turned out it was Batman Forever. Really good game at the time.

[Scrustle]

Picked up Deus Ex: Mankind Divided recently, and so far I'm really liking it. I stayed away from this before because of the whole mess with the pre-order nonsense, and hearing not great stuff about the game in general. I think it also came out before I really clicked with Human Revolution, but I can't remember the exact timing with that. But anyway, with this one not only did I click with it immediately, I've been finding it hard to pull myself away from it. I suppose it's no surprise I like it, given how I was fully on board with HR after a while, and this is basically more of the same.

So it's not blowing my mind with how different it is from the previous game, but that's not a bad thing. It's still got brilliant world-building and detail to the environments, and a great atmosphere too. The writing so far does seem to be a bit of a step down from HR, being way too on the nose with the racial allegory stuff, and some conspicuous dialogue phrases that I'm not sure will age very well. But at the same time, I found actually seeing the treatment of the augmented people in Golem (an aug ghetto you visit) was pretty effective, and interacting with the ARC and hearing their side of the story was very well done. Chatting with their leader in particular has been a real highlight of the game so far.

Aesthetically it's great too. Initially I was somewhat disappointed with how it seemed they totally eradicated the whole "black and gold" thing from HR, which I always really loved, but it turns out I didn't have much to worry about. I had heard how Golem carried on that aesthetic, which would make some thematic sense, and it does. But thankfully, that's not the only time that colour scheme shows up. When you get back from that area and return to Prague, it's night time, and so all the streetlights and neon are turned on, and that great aesthetic comes back. I was really happy to see that, and it definitely gives the game a very unique sense of atmosphere that gives these games such a strong aesthetic identity. Highly detailed, lived-in environments, and hyper-realistic materials are one thing, but bathing that in that moody lighting is what takes it to another level that few games reach. The soundtrack is top notch as well of course. Very atmospheric.

I did have a bit of trouble with performance with the game though. It seems like it's extremely demanding on the PC, and not entirely stable. Came across a lot of big dips in pretty much any situation that wasn't basic exploration. For a while I actually had the 30fps lock turned on to try and make it a bit more consistent. I did some research in to it though, and I think I've found a good point where I should be hitting 60 reliably, exploring around the city at least. The game has a ton of options, and there's a lot of info out there on how to optimise it properly, but it remains to be seen if I've fully solved the problem. It's kind of an annoying hassle, since I pretty much perfectly meet the recommended specs. If anything, I'm slightly above them, so I shouldn't be having any problems.

Another game I played a bit of recently is Little Nightmares. Had my eye on this for a while, and finally picked it up. That was a mistake, and I've got no-one to blame but myself. I really do not like it at all. It feels extremely similar to Limbo, and I had the same extremely negative reaction to that too. I should have seen this coming. The aesthetic and monster designs are great, but I hate how much it relies on trial-and-error. On top of that, the fuzzy, washed-out look making it hard to pick out important details, and the unresponsive controls and awkward camera perspective making it hard to judge exactly where your character is in the environment, make it really frustrating to play. It very quickly kills any attempt the game makes at atmosphere for me, which is basically the whole point of the game.

I disliked it so much I felt like I wanted to refund it soon after getting it, but alas, I could not. Got it from GOG, on principle of avoiding DRM and supporting a company that doesn't force it on you. But GOG's refund policy is that they only do it if you can't run the game. I guess if I went out of my way to stir up a stink about it, I could have gotten around that, but it's not worth it. Plus, that refund policy is more or less reasonable. The game wasn't broken in any way, or of poor quality. I just don't like it.

[James]

I enjoyed DX: Mankind Divided. I agree that it's largely the same as the first game (third game?), but there were a couple of great setpieces in there that will stay long in my memory (The bank! The bank!) Other than that, I'm actually quite glad Eidos Montreal are moving onto something new; hopefully that'll inspire them to branch out and try some new things. I'd like to see them return to Deus Ex in a few years, willing to take some risks with what could otherwise becomes a very stale formula.

I completely agree, also, on Little Nightmares. I played a couple of hours, and the creepy atmosphere, art and animation were doing all the right things for me. Sadly, the guessing game puzzles and fuzzy controls/interactions meant that my patience ran out at a particularly frustrating insta-death moment. I had no qualms about quitting there and then.

Oddly, I really loved Limbo, and follow-up Inside, for similar atmosphere and general creepiness, but never felt any frustration with the gameplay. Not sure why, exactly, we should have had such similar experiences with one and such different ones with the other, but there you go.

[James]

In my recent gaming time, I've been playing Shadow Tactics: Blades Of The Shogun on Xbox One. I make the point of where I'm playing it, because it's a game (and genre) more usually suited to PC. Thankfully, it's clear a lot of work has gone into the UI on console, and an hour or two in I'm zipping around the screen, managing my squad of stealthy warriors to within an inch of my enemies' lives.

Naturally for a tactical (or strategy) game, there's a fair amount of micro-management required. Both units and camera must be carefully shepherded to exactly where you need them to be, but it all works well on the Xbox pad.

ST:BOTS has you controlling a ramshackle group, comprising a shinobi, a samurai, a kunoichi, a thief and an old sniper. They are waging a silent war against a warlord, seeking to turn the tide of a long conflict between him and their shogun. Commandos and Desperados are touchstones, that I sadly haven't played, but 'real-time stealth/tactics game' kinda sums it up nicely.

I've been spending an hour or more on each mission thus far, and much of that time is just me staring at the battlefield, trying to work out my next move. A fast-paced game, this is not, but it's gotten under my skin. I've thought myself facing an impossible scenario on more than one occasion, only to test the bounds of what's possible, and formulate a solution that, whilst no doubt obvious to others, feels like my own. Combining different character abilities is a key aspect, and the UI allows you to stack an action for one character, to be executed at the appropriate moment, whilst your hands are full elsewhere.

This ingenuity adds to the notion that it's a real-time game that doesn't require lightning reflexes or an injury-inducing number of clicks per minute. Throw in an actual Quicksave button (more games do this, please), along with fast reload times, and I'm never afraid to try something stupid, just to see whether I can get away with it. Even better? Sometimes I can.

[deacon05oc]

Continuing to revisit the Metal Gear franchise. Playing Peace Walker. I had this on PSP and put it away because at the time I didn’t want to deal with managing Mother Base. Now I’m playing on Vita and I can’t put it down because I’m loving managing Mother Base. Also I’m getting what feels like a Metal Gear Solid storyline. I know The Phantom Pain borrows it’s elements from PW, but while that game plays fantastically, I never get the MGS feel. Here I get those elements and a fun game to play.

[Todinho]

Peace Walker is so damn good, it's a tragedy that most people never played it or dont care for it, to me it's the second best game of the series by a wide margin and at it's core is just a really fun game.

[deacon05oc]

Peace Walker is so damn good, it's a tragedy that most people never played it or dont care for it, to me it's the second best game of the series by a wide margin and at it's core is just a really fun game.

I haven’t even completed chapter one yet because I’m just replaying missions and recruiting more people. It’s a fantastic gameplay loop. This definitely has worked it’s way into my top 3 MGS and might end up overtaking Snake Eater depending on how the rest of the story goes.

[KSubzero1000]

...I don't think Todinho and I will ever see eye to eye on anything MGS-related. To me, Peace Walker is a total bastardization of everything the previous games do so well in both gameplay and story. Hope you'll end up more satisfied than I was!

[Alex79]

Continuing to revisit the Metal Gear franchise. Playing Peace Walker. I had this on PSP and put it away because at the time I didn’t want to deal with managing Mother Base. Now I’m playing on Vita and I can’t put it down because I’m loving managing Mother Base. Also I’m getting what feels like a Metal Gear Solid storyline. I know The Phantom Pain borrows it’s elements from PW, but while that game plays fantastically, I never get the MGS feel. Here I get those elements and a fun game to play.

Peace Walker is my second favourite in the entire series. Loved it. I only played it a couple of years ago, and it held up wonderfully.

EDIT: You're playing on Vita? You've probably already done it, but just in case you haven't, make sure you map the right stick to the face buttons to use as camera control. Makes it much better.

[Todinho]

...I don't think Todinho and I will ever see eye to eye on anything MGS-related. To me, Peace Walker is a total bastardization of everything the previous games do so well in both gameplay and story. Hope you'll end up more satisfied than I was!

hahahaha we do seem to disagree alot on this subject, but I think we can join together in praise of MGS3 at the very least

[Combine Hunter]

Been playing a lot of PUBG since black friday. Surprised how quickly I'm already taken with it. Turning the military style shooter into a survival horror type experience works and managed to make gun fire scary. Really impressed.