Issue 119 will be in you podcast delivery chute come 17th March, but in order to make it as interesting and as good as it can possibly be we need you!
Tony and myself will be joined by founding Digital Cowboy, Paul Shotton and founding Midnight Resister, Andi Hamilton to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly of Manhunt and Manhunt 2. Now, there are multiple versions (particularly of 2) and controversies to discuss and we'd really love to have as much input from here on the forum as possible.
The recording will be on Sunday 9th March, so there's plenty of time to gather your thoughts. Please do let us know what you think of Rockstar's 'murder simulator’. Many thanks, as always, for any and all contributions; they are greatly appreciated.
Manhunt and Manhunt 2
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XavierShandi
Re: This week's podcast - Manhunt & Manhunt 2
My first experience with Manhunt was watching a friend of mine play it on the PS2 shortly after the game came out. I remember watching him slaughter his way through his fellow man and thinking that it was unlike any game I had personally seen previously. At first it seemed like a fairly mediocre 3rd person action game with an absolutely insane story, but after a few levels I started to think of it more as a grisly puzzle game. (Whether that marks me as a bit of a sociopath or not, I don't know).
Shortly after he beat it, I borrowed the game from him to try it myself. I found the gameplay satisfying and enjoyed the visceral feel of the executions, but ultimately I don't remember much about the game beyond that. I do remember that I hated the last level due to frustrations with a few of the more colorful encounters, but in the end I have a strange fondness for the game. It also occurs to me here that Manhunt must have been the first game I ever played that relied so heavily on stealth, so that might spin my recollections to be more favorable.
Manhunt 2 is another matter. After hearing that this game was coming out on the Wii, I knew I had to own it. Then I heard about the censoring of the executions and felt a bit less inclined to play it. I did end up acquiring the game a few months after launch to see how bad it was. I was definitely pleasantly surprised after booting it up: the gameplay was still satisfying and the motion controls used in the executions were about what I was hoping for. Unfortunately, two aspects of the game ruined it for me to the point where I never completed it: the story and the censorship. The first Manhunt's story was bizarre and unsettling and unlike any other game or movie I could think of, but Manhunt 2 is best described as a poor rip off of Fight Club (at least in regards to the incredibly obvious twist). I just didn't feel as engaged with the story of a madman with multiple personalities caused by whatever sci-fi mumbo jumbo the writers dreamed up. Beyond the story, I found that censorship made the game virtually unenjoyable. In my opinion, the brutal nature of the first game was to evoke certain emotions from the player through being complicit in these gruesome acts: fear, disgust, but a strange satisfaction in managing the lead up. Manhunt 2 removes the fear and disgust by totally blocking the camera during the crucial moments, and as such I don't think Manhunt 2 does as good a job making the player feel responsible even though they are having to literally go through the motions involved. That wall between the most gruesome bits of the game and my vision removed me from the experience and ultimately forced me to stop playing and never go back.
Shortly after he beat it, I borrowed the game from him to try it myself. I found the gameplay satisfying and enjoyed the visceral feel of the executions, but ultimately I don't remember much about the game beyond that. I do remember that I hated the last level due to frustrations with a few of the more colorful encounters, but in the end I have a strange fondness for the game. It also occurs to me here that Manhunt must have been the first game I ever played that relied so heavily on stealth, so that might spin my recollections to be more favorable.
Manhunt 2 is another matter. After hearing that this game was coming out on the Wii, I knew I had to own it. Then I heard about the censoring of the executions and felt a bit less inclined to play it. I did end up acquiring the game a few months after launch to see how bad it was. I was definitely pleasantly surprised after booting it up: the gameplay was still satisfying and the motion controls used in the executions were about what I was hoping for. Unfortunately, two aspects of the game ruined it for me to the point where I never completed it: the story and the censorship. The first Manhunt's story was bizarre and unsettling and unlike any other game or movie I could think of, but Manhunt 2 is best described as a poor rip off of Fight Club (at least in regards to the incredibly obvious twist). I just didn't feel as engaged with the story of a madman with multiple personalities caused by whatever sci-fi mumbo jumbo the writers dreamed up. Beyond the story, I found that censorship made the game virtually unenjoyable. In my opinion, the brutal nature of the first game was to evoke certain emotions from the player through being complicit in these gruesome acts: fear, disgust, but a strange satisfaction in managing the lead up. Manhunt 2 removes the fear and disgust by totally blocking the camera during the crucial moments, and as such I don't think Manhunt 2 does as good a job making the player feel responsible even though they are having to literally go through the motions involved. That wall between the most gruesome bits of the game and my vision removed me from the experience and ultimately forced me to stop playing and never go back.
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AndyKurosaki
- Member
- Posts: 968
- Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 10:43 pm
- Location: Scunthorpe, UK
Re: This week's podcast - Manhunt & Manhunt 2
Being a huge Rockstar fan, the first Manhunt was always going to be on my radar, even the "mediocre to awful" reviews wouldn't put me off. Got it day one...and absolutely loved it. The story was simple, but effective, kill or be killed. The combat was satisfying yet brutal, from carrier bag suffocation to machette decapitation and such like.
It's probably one of the most tense games I've ever played, hiding in shadows, throwing bricks around, trying to suds out enemy patterns. And once you were confident enough to creep out and kill your target, it was pretty satisfying. Of course, when it went wrong, and you had to run like mad to a previous hiding place was fun too.
The Asylum was quite disturbing, with the Smiley gang constantly uttering gibberish.
It got a bit tough towards the end when guns got thrown in the mix, but the final showdown made it all worthwhile.
As for Manhunt 2, to this day I've not played it. I didn't have a Wii when it came out on that, and by the time I picked one up I'd forgotten about it.
It's probably one of the most tense games I've ever played, hiding in shadows, throwing bricks around, trying to suds out enemy patterns. And once you were confident enough to creep out and kill your target, it was pretty satisfying. Of course, when it went wrong, and you had to run like mad to a previous hiding place was fun too.
The Asylum was quite disturbing, with the Smiley gang constantly uttering gibberish.
It got a bit tough towards the end when guns got thrown in the mix, but the final showdown made it all worthwhile.
As for Manhunt 2, to this day I've not played it. I didn't have a Wii when it came out on that, and by the time I picked one up I'd forgotten about it.
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adderblack39
Re: This week's podcast - Manhunt & Manhunt 2
let me start by saying that MANHUNT is in my top ten best games ever played.I played it shortly after getting my ps2 back in 2004 and was aware of the controversy surrounding the game,but that was not the reason i was drawn to it,it was developed by rockstar and i adored vice city,so really it was a no brainer.
Straight away i was gripped by the eerie tone of the game,something that i had not experienced before and rarely since.
The JOHN CARPENTER inspired soundtrack was sparse yet expertly triggered to reflect your actions on screen.
The visuals were dreary but nailed every environment that cash traversed throughout his nightmarish journey.
The hunters dialogue when you were hiding in the shadows managed to be terrifying and hilarious at the same time.
I really enjoyed the slow build structure of the story,your first weapon is a plastic bag,then a glass shard and as you progressed you got your hands on increasingly
more savage weaponry such as axes,nail guns, and machetes.
Usually the introduction of firearms into a stealth game can be a letdown,that was not the case here,they were just as violent and powerful as the melee weapons,all of which were brought to life by the fantastic sound design.
I loved the fact that James earl cash is a blank slate(albeit one that looks just like me),you are simply left to fill in his mysterious past yourself,(what crime did he commit to deserve a letahal injection?)
And lets not forget the ending,"BOSS BATTLES" are mostly awful in a majority of videogames IMO,however the encounter you have with the notorious PIGGSY has to go down as one of the most tense set peices in videogame history,a true game of hide and seek in a claustrophobic environment with one of the sickest fucks ever to grace a videogame.
Its a real shame that the violent aspects of MANHUNT jaded many critics opinions of this game,especially as the violence seems quite tame by todays standards, because at its core it is an expertley crafted dark thriller.
OH and brian coxs.
Straight away i was gripped by the eerie tone of the game,something that i had not experienced before and rarely since.
The JOHN CARPENTER inspired soundtrack was sparse yet expertly triggered to reflect your actions on screen.
The visuals were dreary but nailed every environment that cash traversed throughout his nightmarish journey.
The hunters dialogue when you were hiding in the shadows managed to be terrifying and hilarious at the same time.
I really enjoyed the slow build structure of the story,your first weapon is a plastic bag,then a glass shard and as you progressed you got your hands on increasingly
more savage weaponry such as axes,nail guns, and machetes.
Usually the introduction of firearms into a stealth game can be a letdown,that was not the case here,they were just as violent and powerful as the melee weapons,all of which were brought to life by the fantastic sound design.
I loved the fact that James earl cash is a blank slate(albeit one that looks just like me),you are simply left to fill in his mysterious past yourself,(what crime did he commit to deserve a letahal injection?)
And lets not forget the ending,"BOSS BATTLES" are mostly awful in a majority of videogames IMO,however the encounter you have with the notorious PIGGSY has to go down as one of the most tense set peices in videogame history,a true game of hide and seek in a claustrophobic environment with one of the sickest fucks ever to grace a videogame.
Its a real shame that the violent aspects of MANHUNT jaded many critics opinions of this game,especially as the violence seems quite tame by todays standards, because at its core it is an expertley crafted dark thriller.
OH and brian coxs.
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jbtheskater
- Member
- Posts: 27
- Joined: July 31st, 2013, 12:24 pm
- Location: London/Scotland
Re: This week's podcast - Manhunt & Manhunt 2
Manhunt was a day-1 purchase for me. I was excited at the prospect of playing a R* North game which seemed totally different from its GTA games. When looking at screenshots and previews the game seemed like an appealing mash-up of John Carpenter-style films, stealth action games and the gratuitous violence seen in many R* games previously. My eagerness to get my hands on Manhunt was only heightened by the predictable, over the top media “outrage” regarding the game’s content. The unintended hype that such headlines generate for games of this type is beyond parody.
The game itself did not disappoint me and having played through it recently again in its entirety on PC, the aspects which appealed to me on my first play through continue to appeal to me now. The start to the game was, and still is, outrageous: take this plastic bag, kill this man with his back to you (no reason necessary) and carry on. This set the tone for everything to follow. I am huge fan of the 80s films set in dystopian urban environments of the “future”. Escape From New York, The Running Man, and to a lesser extent The Warriors and intentionally or not, Manhunt has the same vibe to it.
The stealth mechanic is presented, and implemented well. You are either in the shadows or not. The use of an on-screen icon telling you exactly whether you are hidden or not is an excellent touch. This removes the ambiguity which can be found in some stealth games when working out whether or not an enemy can see you.
The executions are well implemented and are centered on a risk/reward system. You can quickly bring about your enemy’s demise with a simple press of the execution button, however if you want to see the most brutal use of the weapon in hand you must hold the execution button down for as long as possible. Whilst holding down the button you are praying that the enemy does not turn around and engage you in the game’s cumbersome mêlée mechanics. The executions are as gory and brutal now as they were when I first played the game. Crushing someone’s skull with a hammer or hacking someone’s head off with a machete never gets any easier to watch.
The story is an excuse for the gameplay rather than the gameplay being a way of implementing the story. That is not to say the story isn't good, it just doesn't quite go as far or as deep as I think it could. The enemies are a nice mixture but more original characters like Pigsy would have been welcome. It’s almost like the Running Man in it’s set up: kill or be killed. The only way to secure your freedom is to murder everyone in sight, literally everyone, and by the end of the game Cash has murdered upwards of 150 people (to that end I am not entirely sure how this ultimately results in Cash’s freedom…). The story and gameplay is supported with good sound design and music. The John Carpenter-esque synth music is a great backing soundtrack to the broken world in which the game takes place. The dialogue of the enemies is amusing and quite varied although when you play it through on hardcore and have to hide for extended periods you become more aware of the repetition.
This is a game I harbour fond memories of and playing through it again recently has only served to remind me of what a stellar game it is. This is one my favourites from its time. The screen filter and grain add a really nice finish to the game’s overall presentation. Although the fighting mechanics aren't great, the shooting sequences feel at odds with the nature of the game (which makes up the last third of the game) and the save points are horrible, none of these points detract from the overall quality of the game or the enjoyment I got out of it. I would recommend anyone who hasn't played this to try it and to anyone who hasn't played it on PC to add it to their collection when it goes on sale. The grimy, gritty world of Manhunt and Carcer City is not to be missed.
The game itself did not disappoint me and having played through it recently again in its entirety on PC, the aspects which appealed to me on my first play through continue to appeal to me now. The start to the game was, and still is, outrageous: take this plastic bag, kill this man with his back to you (no reason necessary) and carry on. This set the tone for everything to follow. I am huge fan of the 80s films set in dystopian urban environments of the “future”. Escape From New York, The Running Man, and to a lesser extent The Warriors and intentionally or not, Manhunt has the same vibe to it.
The stealth mechanic is presented, and implemented well. You are either in the shadows or not. The use of an on-screen icon telling you exactly whether you are hidden or not is an excellent touch. This removes the ambiguity which can be found in some stealth games when working out whether or not an enemy can see you.
The executions are well implemented and are centered on a risk/reward system. You can quickly bring about your enemy’s demise with a simple press of the execution button, however if you want to see the most brutal use of the weapon in hand you must hold the execution button down for as long as possible. Whilst holding down the button you are praying that the enemy does not turn around and engage you in the game’s cumbersome mêlée mechanics. The executions are as gory and brutal now as they were when I first played the game. Crushing someone’s skull with a hammer or hacking someone’s head off with a machete never gets any easier to watch.
The story is an excuse for the gameplay rather than the gameplay being a way of implementing the story. That is not to say the story isn't good, it just doesn't quite go as far or as deep as I think it could. The enemies are a nice mixture but more original characters like Pigsy would have been welcome. It’s almost like the Running Man in it’s set up: kill or be killed. The only way to secure your freedom is to murder everyone in sight, literally everyone, and by the end of the game Cash has murdered upwards of 150 people (to that end I am not entirely sure how this ultimately results in Cash’s freedom…). The story and gameplay is supported with good sound design and music. The John Carpenter-esque synth music is a great backing soundtrack to the broken world in which the game takes place. The dialogue of the enemies is amusing and quite varied although when you play it through on hardcore and have to hide for extended periods you become more aware of the repetition.
This is a game I harbour fond memories of and playing through it again recently has only served to remind me of what a stellar game it is. This is one my favourites from its time. The screen filter and grain add a really nice finish to the game’s overall presentation. Although the fighting mechanics aren't great, the shooting sequences feel at odds with the nature of the game (which makes up the last third of the game) and the save points are horrible, none of these points detract from the overall quality of the game or the enjoyment I got out of it. I would recommend anyone who hasn't played this to try it and to anyone who hasn't played it on PC to add it to their collection when it goes on sale. The grimy, gritty world of Manhunt and Carcer City is not to be missed.
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ratsoalbion
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Re: Manhunt and Manhunt 2
We received an email on the subject of Manhunt from one Michael Veal. It arrived too late for inclusion in the podcast so I thought I'd post it here:
I didn't like Manhunt when the game was released on PlayStation 2, I found the camera very restrictive and disorientating, and I often ran straight into the murderous clutches of the hunters, purely by accident.
But then the Xbox version came out, and it offered an option to switch to a more conventional third-person camera.
Then I was off, enjoying one of the most teeth-clenchingly tense video game adventures ever conceived.
Manhunt is essentially a long game of Hide & Seek, but its atmosphere and brilliant level design propel it.
Rockstar North come down hard on anyone who plays their most notorious game. Creeping through Carcer City, every corner, every doorway, every patch of shadow holds a very real threat of ambush.
Genuinely, a game that makes my heart beat faster.
Three word review: Stressful but brilliant.
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James
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Re: Manhunt and Manhunt 2
It surprised me how much replaying Manhunt made me want to reassess The Last Of Us. I really couldn't get to grips with it when I played TLOU last year, but putting it in the context of a Manhunt-style hide and seek game has me hopeful that I'll take more from it second time around.