Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

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JaySevenZero
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Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by JaySevenZero » June 14th, 2015, 9:36 am

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“I’m talking guys who beat off, four times a day!”

Goichi Suda teamed up with co-writer Shinji Mikami to create one of the ‘Capcom Five’ for Nintendo GameCube in the early-mid 2000s. The result was the unique and intriguing melange of mechanics and ideas, Killer7. Leon, Josh and Sean attempt to relate the whats and wherefores of this remarkable piece of software, augmented by the opinions and recollections of the Cane and Rinse community.

Additional audio used in this show is as follows:

Track 1: Blackburn by Masafumi Takada and Jun Fukuda
Track 2: Rave On by Masafumi Takada and Jun Fukuda

Cane and Rinse 180 was edited by Sean O'Brien.

You can subscribe using iTUNES or use our RSS FEED, or you can just simply DOWNLOAD IT HERE instead.

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Todinho
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by Todinho » June 14th, 2015, 9:07 pm

So I was listening to the podcast and I got to the part where Josh and Leon talk about Suda's gender politics and I had to comment here,not because I disagree with them but because I actually agree with them but I'd also add that Suda not only has contempt for women but for the entirety of society as whole.This is me especulating but I think this has alot to do with his time working at a morgue and seeing all types of people in a slab and having to prep them for burial,I heard from nurses that had to prep people to be taken by the morgues that there's certainly a big level of dehumanization that occurs naturally just as a nessecity of people needing to do these types of jobs,that's why a think Suda in some level is Garcian Smith someone that's a cleaner and feels nothing looking at a dead body not only that but someone that sees other people as strange and sees world events at a different light.

Which brings me to his characters every character in Killer 7 is either insane,weak or vile in some way with no exception and they are all treated with contempt by Garcian except the girl that has the handsome men personas and I think the reason why is because they both see themselfs as the same so they shake hands and walk away with respect for one another,no other character of the game gets this treatment and that's because they dont deserve it they cant see the world as Garcian does but that girls could.

And going foward you can see that in his other games in No More Heroes the main character is mocking the type of people that like his games in the first place and once again every single character is awfull in one way or another,with Holly Summers maybe being an exception, not only that but there's a whole underlining theme of you being shat on the entire game being called a third rater and being forced to do these menial jobs before being allowed to face the next cool boss,to me that's not only to annoy the player but is also reflecting a bit of Suda's own life where he had to do these menial and terrible jobs before being able to break in the games industry.

Shadows of the Dammed I havent played but I watched a bunch of it and what I saw wasnt really a mysoginist game(though you could argue that and It would be very hard to dispute)but rather a game mocking the whole idea of masculinity with the main character being this latino stereotype that talks about boners all the time and is searching for his girlfriend in hell, and I know very little about Lolipop Chainsaw but I imagine that's the reverse with the main character wearing her boyfriend as an acessory and all(funny thing I actually found out that the main writer for the game directed Guardians of the Galaxy,pretty crazy). All of his stories are like this and I feel his staments like "making a game is like taking shit" further point to his complete disregard or contempt for society(the fact that his games never sell probably doesnt help),the funny thing is I actually played a game of his that is completely normal and none of that stuff appears in it and that is Liberation Maiden.In that game you play as a japanese school girl that has to save world from evil aliens and it's played completely straight and in no moment the main character or any other character is depicted as awfull or mocked in anyway she's actually kinda of boring because she's the typical anime hero but there you go ,so yeah that makes me think that all of his decisions of how the characters should be and behave are deliberate and there for a reason which doesnt automatically make them good or better but I think makes them more interesting then 90% of videogame characters,even if the conclusion I reach after examining one of them is "Woah Suda really likes wrestling".

So yeah sorry about the long post it's just something I've been thinking about awhile and hearing you guys talking kinda lit a spark for me to write about it,btw I really liked the podcast probably my favorite of volume 4 so far great job! :D

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Todinho
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by Todinho » June 14th, 2015, 9:15 pm

Oh I remembered this really cool talk of Kojima,Mikami and Suda about working in the industry and how they are seen kinda of oddballs and all of that it's really cool!


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ratsoalbion
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by ratsoalbion » June 15th, 2015, 7:37 am

Thanks for such a considered response Todinho. You've certainly given me something to chew over.

It is possible that Suda is just entirely misanthropic, and it's his particular disdain for women that stands out to the likes of me and Josh. Definitely worthy of further consideration though.

Glad you enjoyed the show, and thanks for your contributions too.

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Alex79uk
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by Alex79uk » June 15th, 2015, 9:25 am

Ah cool, been looking forward to this show. I just really wish they'd re-release the game - as it is - on a system more convenient for me to play it. Vita would make me do a little bit of sex wee.

I'm so sorry.

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Sean
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by Sean » June 18th, 2015, 12:06 am

Haha no worries, Alex. It's appropriate for this game.

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fieldy
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Re: Killer7 - Cane and Rinse 180

Post by fieldy » June 23rd, 2015, 12:05 pm

Another great episode, personally I really liked Killer 7 (Got it day one on my GC :roll: ) my favorite part oddly being the soundtrack and the sound design.

What I wanted to comment on was what Josh and Leon as well as Todinho (Above) have spoken about in Suda's gender politics. I played thorough killer 7 and was somewhat surprised and uncomfortable to see (and hear!) Samantha's character humping/ abusing Garcian. It wasn't until playing through shadows of the damned however that I felt VERY uncomfortable with the way that the female character, Paula, was treated. It seemed as if her purpose in the game was to be mutilated over and over. Her character was very over sexualized and indeed in one section of the game you are made to
Spoiler: show
walk over her giant semi naked body as she moans in the background

At this point I was as I said very uncomfortable and thought the game would have been just fine if they removed or toned it down. Far from me to be a censor and ask the powers that be to 'Ban this filth!' but my feelings really tie in with what you've all said whereby Suda 51 seems to have some sort of hate or contempt for the opposite sex, if it had been a one off in one of his games then it may be dismissed as an attempt to provoke or even build an interesting character, but its not pleasant being made to feel uncomfortable when playing through one of his games as it seems to be a running theme.
However when thinking about this further, Suda has expressed his love for punk culture and indeed his games show this. Perhaps this treatment of female characters is his anarchic attempt to mock the stereotype of females in society?
Either way I agree with whats been said and don't really want to ignore it or as Josh says 'Give him a pass' anymore

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