Final Fantasy XIII

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JaySevenZero
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Final Fantasy XIII

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here's where you can contribute your memories and opinions of Final Fantasy XIII for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.

Friendly reminder to all that where feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but self-editing (brevity) is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mainly reading. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
jonbash

Re: 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by jonbash »

Along with Final Fantasy Versus XIII (which became FF15), and Kingdom Hearts 3 (which I don't care to play anymore), Final Fantasy XIII was one of the reasons I bought a PS3. The early teasers showed me exactly what I wanted at the time: a more sci-fi-esque setting and a strong female protagonist.

When I first played Final Fantasy XIII, I honestly adored it. The battle system was a bit weird, but it felt like it cut out some of the more monotonous menu mashing and allowed a greater focus on higher-level, broader strategy in certain situations, and I genuinely enjoyed it. The very gradual unleashing of the battle system also didn't bother me much, and neither did the linearity of the game (it was different, but not necessarily bad).

Looking back and replaying a bit, though, it strikes my that I may have been looking through slightly rose-colored lenses. The characters *could* have been interesting, but they couldn't seem to pull off moment-to-moment characterization. The level design really could have been opened up at least a *bit* more, with a couple of extra side routes or alternate pathways strewn about to mix up the long corridors.

The moment when many said the game opens up (arriving on Pulse) was the moment that I thought it went totally off the rails. There was lots of interesting lore to find there, but very little of it was followed up on in any way (even in the sequels), and the characters' motivations seemed to completely fall apart. The main villain and his motivations were just incomprehensible, and the ending felt like they wrote the entire latter portion of the game without knowing how to resolve it, only to magically make everything end happily for everyone (except Vanille & Fang, kind of, I guess?).

The music in Final Fantasy XIII contains both some of the best and some of the worst tracks in the entire series. Masashi Hamauzu did some really masterful work especially with the orchestral tracks, and although they stuck out a bit, I loved the acoustic jazz tunes as well (especially the second chocobo theme, despite the melody being strangely tweaked). The electronic stuff could be a bit obnoxious though, especially when combined with vocals. It did absolutely nothing for me at best, and could be profoundly irritating at worst.

There's the skeleton of an incredible game in here, and I can't help but think that with some better, more focused direction, it could have been among the best in the series, but alas, it seems it was not meant to be.

Three-word review: admirable, unfulfilled potential
ashley-cstj

Re: Our next Final Fantasy podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by ashley-cstj »

As I never owned a PS2, up through 2010 my entire experience of the FF series was through the PS1 games and the GBA ports. Final Fantasy XIII was the first FF game that I played at launch, it was the reason I bought a PS3, and it was my first platinum trophy. To say I was excited would be an understatement; I played the game solidly for a good two months, eventually dragging the console off of the nice HD telly in the living room and hooking it up to the dusty CRT in my bedroom (although this meant that I could not actually read the text in game).

FFXIII is a game that I like very much, that I have very fond memories of, and yet, it’s a game I struggle with. I’m not sure it has a complete, distinct identity of its own; certainly it’s a game that I’ve never had any desire to revisit. Ask me to give a one-sentence precis of any other mainline Final Fantasy game and I probably could. Not XIII though. And I think this feeling of a missing ‘identity’ is in large part due to the world not feeling complete, in a way.

I still dream of Fisherman’s Horizon and Balamb Garden from FFVIII, of Treno from FFIX, of Narshe in FFVI, of Eos’ open-road in FFXV. Admittedly, those are distinctive locations, but even with all of its graphical beauty (and it is a very pretty game) Cocoon and Pulse don’t hold up. Individual locations might look interesting and striking, but it doesn’t make for a complete world. I don’t know how the Sunleth Waterscape exists in relation to Palumpolum, or what Hanging Edge is. This is partially due to the linearity of the game, but also because each chapter seems to end with the party getting in an airship and immediately crashing into a new biome. It doesn’t help that, while the music as a whole is quite good, I don’t really have strong memories of any location themes. Well, the Yaschas Massif theme, but that’s memorable in the way elevator music is. Final Fantasy has never felt so... modular before.

It’s a shame I feel this way, because XIII starts off so well. The scenario seems to want to problematise and question the structures of the series. The fal’Cie are ‘what if the crystals had their own agenda’, the l’cie are ‘what if becoming a warrior of light was a curse’. This is a fascinating premise and, in the beginning, is a source of conflict that defines the cast. Snow reacts by trying to save Serah, Lightning takes her frustration out on the government, Hope enacts his revenge plot on Snow. But, as the game continues, I feel it defaults to a battle against a corrupt government and an angelic final boss. In the end, the l’cie don’t escape their fate, they end up destroying the world, but it’s all fine apparently.

Apologies for the long post and, I think, coming off quite negatively. As I said up top, I do enjoy FFXIII, but, when I think about it, it doesn’t hold a candle to its predecessors (or its sequels and successors).
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ClassicTails55
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Re: Our next Final Fantasy podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by ClassicTails55 »

I’ve played and beaten FFXIII, my save informs me that I spent 70 plus hours on it. I remember virtually nothing! No idea what the plot was, who the villain is, no bosses, no memory of any important character or story moments. For an entry in one of my favourite series, this is quite alarming.

I only have vague recollections of walking through metallic corridors, reading backstory in numerous data-logs, and a big green open area towards the finish. Something about tattoos or branding? I think there is a floating planet or moon on a chain? I might be thinking of Sonic CD though! Mostly I recall disappointment and no attachment to the characters while playing.

Please forgive me, but I will not be replaying this for your podcast. Better games are waiting and I feel no love for FFXIII. I’ll be playing the FFVIII remaster! I’m looking forward to the podcast however, hopefully it and other correspondents will jog my memory and remind me of some good aspects!

3 word review: Skip this one.
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Young Steev
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This is where I get off

Post by Young Steev »

I didn't play FFXII at launch, instead electing to borrow it from a friend a year or so after launch, and even then it was more out of obligation to play all of the games in the series than any desire. My first thought was that the graphics were absolutely jaw-dropping. Even now I still give it that, the visuals and animation are an absolute treat, par for the course with Square Enix games, but not enough to hold up a 50 hour RPG on its own.

It was around the time that Snow and Vanille come into the story that I felt like something was really amiss - I just wasn't connecting with these characters, the battle system felt monotonous, and the areas I was traversing were very linear. "It's just the tutorial area, it's just the start," I told myself, "it'll open up into something bigger, they'll introduce new mechanics," sadly it seems that while the drip feed of new mechanics was kind of correct, the exploration consisted of various ways of holding up, with the occasional nudge left or right to spice things up.

And then Hope wandered into the story, and cemented in my head that I really didn't like a single character here - Saszh's search for his son I chalked up jokingly to bad parenting, Vanille was an annoying cloud cookoolander without the extreme animation that her counterparts in other games, Snow I saw as a cringeworthy jock character with all the charm of a Sonic the Hedgehog OC, and Hope I found whiny, annoying, and rendered worse because you're forced to put up with him for such a large chunk of the story. Fang and Lightning are the only minor saving grace, although Fang is simply introduced so late on you don't have time to find anything out about her, and considering how long you spend with Lightning, it's amazing how little personality she has and how little you learn about her by the end of the story, so if anything it isn't their character that redeems them, but rather their lack of it.

The final nail in the coffin was some 30 hours later on the final disk, finally getting to the "open area" that I'd heard so much about, and quickly finding out that this consisted of maybe 3 or 4 open areas with nothing to offer apart from repetitive hunt missions taking you to the same places to fight pallette swaps and beefed up versions of the same enemies, all the while listening to the main theme on endless loop. I endeavoured to like this point, and tried to 100% it, but after realising the Crystarium was just a linear progression, and with the hunts grinding down my patience faster than grinding my characters to higher levels, I decided to go down the path that may as well have been marked "This way to the end of the game" for a final straight line run, a giant space flea from nowhere final boss, and an ending that I didn't get, and didn't want to get. I don't want to say this about a series that meant so much to me in my teenage years, but I think that, graphics aside, Final Fantasy XIII is utterly abysmal, and undeserving of the title.

A notable badly-localised line from the high point of this series is "there ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on!" Sadly, after bumbling through this lackluster, linear RPG, which seemed to have stripped out everything I loved about the series and cast it aside, I decided to step off the metaphorical train and onto the platform; either this series had gone in a direction I didn't care for, or I'd simply grown out of it. Aside from the odd nostalgic foray into Final Fantasy VI and IX, I've never been back to the series since, and really have no desire to.

Three word review: Beautiful, bland, boring
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Ben77000000
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Re: Our next podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by Ben77000000 »

As accurate as Leon's comments on the X episode were regarding the innacuracy of the perceived perceptions of Final Fantasy titles, I feel that, reasonable critical reception aside, the continued consensus surrounding XIII warrants its supporters assuming a defensive stance more than any numbered entry since II. Apologist minority aside, I most often find the game being dismissed as a corridor simulator with juvenile dialogue and a 20 hour tutorial.

For as well-founded as these complaints are, I feel that were the writing in this game able to clearly define how its world worked, and what its characters' goals were in relation to it, then its flaws would have felt much less glaring.

Final Fantasy X masked its linearity through smart pacing and the interspersal of towns that functioned as breathers, but this game abandons the notion of pacing in favour of having its cast on the run for the bulk of the game. Under this conceit, the characters are rarely given opportunities to dawdle and must instead barrel forwards before they're apprehended by ill-defined adversaries. Much of the impetus to press on however is applied in cutscenes that more often than not obfuscate motives and destinations rather than offering reasons to continue. Again, while X was able to use its fish-out-of-water protagonist as a vehicle for exposition, XIII gives up on any attempt to integrate vital information into the narrative, and dumps most of it into Datalogs.

That XIII ends up as uninvolving as it does is testament to how integral the storytelling of previous entries had been to the experience, because almost none of this one ever truly resonates, despite ostensibly ticking more boxes than it doesn't. My day one playthrough of Final Fantasy XV even had me missing a handful of franchise staples that were fully present and accounted for in XIII, like a bevy of gorgeous FMVs to bolster the drama, a spectacular, form-changing final boss, and respectable attempts at character arcs.

XIII's inventively bizarre art design also snugly suits its soundtrack, and the two combine to craft a world that invites consistent awe. The crystalline waves of Lake Bresha, lush humidity of the Sunleth Waterscape and massive, sleek airship exteriors ensured that even if I wasn't sure why I was in these remarkable places, I could still enjoy running through them, albeit in straight lines.

Meanwhile, the enemy designs afford the game a menagerie of abstract creatures composed of weird shapes that are a delight to see twist and transform mid-battle.
And these battles are solid, too. Where XII's gambits meant that prudent players could adopt a hands-off approach and simply watch their party win, XIII's tougher bouts demand on-the-fly decision-making. And where VII had players abstain from attacking while the Guard Scorpion's tail was raised, similar enemy behaviours in XIII force players to both adapt their command queues, and adjust their party paradigms to keep up with the ebbs and flows of encounters.

In the end it's a massive shame that the areas in which XIII falters hardest are the ones for which the Final Fantasy franchise has built itself upon excelling at. I reckon XIII is a a handful of NPCs and a stern rewrite away from living up to its namesake.
rob25X
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Re: Our next podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by rob25X »

I went into Final Fantasy XIII not expecting it to be all that great having picked it up fairly cheap on eBay not long after launch and hearing a lot of negative things about the game. Not long into the adventure I decided to skip all the cut scenes and just go with the gameplay.

I've fully completed the game twice now but could never bring myself to 'watch' the whole story (over 8 hours of video!). I enjoyed the game mostly up to a boss (Barthandelus?) that regenerated full health which caused me to rage quit. I later returned and managed to finish the adventure. Upon finishing the story and returning to the beautiful main area of the game (Gran Pulse) to start side quests the game really impressed me with it's amazing paradigm battle system.

Not the best Final Fantasy game I've played but I would be very happy to do it a 3rd time on PC if my machine could handle it.
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Nyx-Blaster
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Re: Our next podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by Nyx-Blaster »

Final Fantasy XIII is a game that has always had a special place in my heart since it was the very first Final Fantasy game that i ever played, and the game that prompted me to travel back and play the older entries in the series. I've always felt like the odd one out with this one, as the first time i played it back in high school i really enjoyed it, whereas the general consensus on the game seemed to be that of disappointment and hate compared to its predecessors. When i saw this on the lineup for Cane and Rinse I knew i had to go back and play through it again. I knew that after years of sticking up for XIII i needed to see if my feelings for the game were still real or just rose tinted nostalgia, and honestly i was scared that my opinion would shift towards the disdain i had seen so much of in years prior. But i'm happy to say that after playing through the game again those feelings are still very real, though of course with some caveats.

The thing i want to talk about the most, personally, is the story of XII. I separate the story into two sections, The Backstory and the Character Stories. The Backstory that deals with the Fal'Cie, L'Cie, and how they fit into the world is, for lack of a better word, hogwash. It comes across as confusing due to how quickly they throw terms and concepts at you at the beginning of the game, and it just seems even more convoluted as the game continues.
The Character Stories though, i found myself enjoying those more and more as the game progressed. I like how XIII has a core theme running through the game, something i found to be lacking in Final Fantasy 12 when i replayed that for the show. It's a theme about Choice, and the fear and responsibility that comes with having "Free Will". In the face of adversity will you try to run away from your problems or will you stand tall and face them? Will you try to do the right thing even if it seems like everyone else is against you, and even if it means exposing yourself to more pain and misunderstanding? Or will you forego all of that and give in to anger and despair? All of the main characters in XIII struggle with these questions throughout the game as they try to get a handle on their new found plight and the revelations they come across over the course of their journey. This inner struggle of the characters is highlighted by the summons of the game, which i couldnt help but chuckle and relate the Eidolans to Personas from the Persona series, as they first emerge when a character is at the height of their emotional distress.
Overall its this part of the story that kept me interested in playing. I do think the story suffers a bit from how it's presented, as well as a very lackluster main villain and side characters, but overall i still enjoyed it once it got under way

I feel the same way about the characters as i do the story itself. At first, i really didnt like the characters, even though this time around i knew they'd eventually turn around a new leaf. They just came across as too cringe-worthy at the beginning, which is thankfully mitigated once the characters split into pairs for several chapters. Its at around this point, when you start learning where each character is coming from, and watching how they interact with their partner, that the characters started to grow on me. There are some touching moments of character development that i really liked seeing, such as Lightning realizing the error of some of her teachings to Hope and becoming more of a thoughtful, mature woman, Hope growing into his own and making his own decisions, and Snow owning up to the consequences of his past actions. Some of the dialogue is really hokey, but it feels genuine for the characters themselves. As a cast i think they work well together, and its nice to see some of their development show through how they interact with one another. Overall i think the game does a good job explaining why these characters are here, why they remain there, and what they hope to achieve by the end.

Coupled with my enjoyment of the story and characters, I feel like the music and visuals still hold up to this day. The Final Fantasy XIII series as a whole has some of my favorite RPG soundtracks due to how they manage to be vibrant, energetic, and calming at the same time. Also Character themes are back, which although i enjoy, they can sound a bit out of place. But the general music for the locations you visit and the battle themes and boss themes, this is where the gold lies. Whether you are jamming out to 'Blinded by Light' or roaming the linear environment with soothing tones and vocals singing in the background, XIII's soundtrack will make you feel something i imagine. It's one of those soundtracks that i love to put on while i study and do homework just from how upbeat it is.

The gameplay is probably my least favorite aspect of the game. The game starts out very very slow, which i feel is done deliberately so that you can get used to the mechanics and layout of the battle system. This makes the first few hours of XIII very tedious and slovenly to get through. That being said, when it comes to the paradigm system itself i think the game does a decent job exposing you to new paradigm roles bit by bit rather than overwhelming you with all of the options all at once. I thought it was clever for them to do this during the points of the story where the characters were split up from one another. Once the gameplay starts picking up speed it can be quite fun swapping paradigms on the fly, and staggering your enemies just enough so that you can launch them in the air and juggle them like a fighting game expert. But even then due to the 'auto-pilot' nature of the combat, it is very easy to find yourself just clicking 'Auto-Battle' every single time when you are out fighting mobs of enemies. This coupled with the linear nature of the game, which i didnt mind too much but could have done without, makes XIII a very hard game to play for an extended amount of time. I found myself feeling incredibly lethargic while playing XIII for more than a few hours, and i was worried that id eventually doze off in the middle of battle or somewhere enemies could get me. I also feel like they could have handled weapon upgrades and the shop system a bit better than they did, as i found myself rarely using the shops for 75% of the game due to not having a enough gil for alot of the weapons and such.

With all this being said, I like Final Fantasy XIII. It has its issues but i can confidently say that i enjoyed my time with it. I do wish that the battle system was a little less on rails (which they kind of addressed with Final Fantasy XV) but as it stands the story and characters were enough for me to continue onward. Though not my favorite final fantasy, it is one i gladly recommend to anyone who is already familiar with RPGs.

Three Word Review: Gets Better Later
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Ralamandastron
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A game that could have been great

Post by Ralamandastron »

Memories of this game are unavoidably tinged by having played the PC port, a version where 'Escape' instantly quits the game. That's right, the button that's almost universally used to pause games! A problem that does NOT pair well with Save Stations. In a game where combat is already taxingly repetitive, being forced to repeat large swathes of it gets increasingly frustrating.

That's my overriding memory of the game, anyway: frustration. Which is a shame, because I wish it wasn't a frustrating game; I don't think it had to be. The setting is not just beautiful, but brilliant and fascinating. The brief period of exploration in Gran Pulse is joyful and rewarding. At it's core, the paradigm-switching combat system is a fun idea; the first time you face each enemy/combination is generally exciting. The Crystarium is a moderately compelling iteration of the sphere grid. The music is often wonderful.

But of course, it IS frustrating. Why don't they let you interact with the setting? Why make the towns so full of life, and just have you run through them and shop at machines? Why make you wait so long to explore? Why make you do the same battle so many times, even after you've perfected it?

An opportunity was here for a game I would have loved. The bits between the frustration, at least, I will remember fondly.

Three words: Promising, but frustrating.
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Steve Arran
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Re: Our next podcast recording (5.10.19) - 390: Final Fantasy XIII

Post by Steve Arran »

In a shocking turn of events- for me at least- the least loved final fantasy instalment seems to be the only one I managed to fully complete (to platinum level no less) since you guys began to record this series of podcasts. Does that mean I think it’s the best? Hell no! But at the time it it scratched an itch and I’m happy that I experienced it when I did.

To get the inevitable out of the way; the plot is bad, the levels are extremely linear and the battle system is decisive at best. However I do have a soft spot for the sound track (probably due to it embedding itself in my head trying to get the platinum) and you can not deny that this game is gorgeous.

Indeed, it is on this point that I am most fixated. I can still remember the opening hours of this game, being absolutely blown away by the graphics and realising ‘oh my god, this is what Final Fantasy is going to be like form now on’. No more blocky character models. No more pre rendered backgrounds. (I know 10 and 12 had already deviated from the old ps1 graphical format but this was truly truly next level). Sadly, 13 was guilty of peaking too soon: the first boss fight with the scorpion robot was miles better than the ultimate boss fight (and why I was fighting that I’ve no idea, thank you plot line) , but 13 will always have a special place in my heart for the potential of what it could bring to the FF series, rather than what it was on its own terms.
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