The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

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Electric Crocosaurus
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

Yeah, as Todinho says it isn't that the later books abandon a chronological order, just that books 4 and 5 were originally intended to be one book. When the story grew out of control Martin decided to split the book, and decided to do it by location/theme rather than time. So book 4 focuses a lot on Kings Landing and, shall we say, some less interesting threads, while book 5 picked up the story in the East and at the Wall.

So far this season is sticking to the second half of Storm of Swords, while introducing bits of book 5 (the stuff with Reek, Bran in the north, Daenarys' stuff). It seems unlikely that they'll look ahead for material in King's Landing, as there's a lot of good stuff to cover from book 3, but it's going to be interesting to see where they go next season (given that some characters may start to run out of plot line from the books released so far).
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

So yeah I dont know about you guys but I there's one scene in this episode that completely ruins it for me it was otherwise a fine episode but that one scene that wasnt in the books and was completely made up doesnt sit well with me at all I cant fathom why it's there, I hope whoever wrote this episode never do it again.
Lego Solo

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Lego Solo »

Which episode are you talking about? If it's the The Lion and the Rose that episode was written by non other than George R. R. Martin himself. He always writes at least one a year, normally quite important episodes, such as that one.
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

it was last nights episode "breaker of chains" if you read the books and see that scene you're gonna flip out too.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by DomsBeard »

I'd spoiler tag it and say what it is
Spoiler: show
I can only think of Jamies rape of his sister. That does happen in the book though bit she's more than consensual
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

spoiler tag anwser
Spoiler: show
Well in the books Jaime isnt on King's Landing at the time of the wedding he only arrives later and the first meeting he has with Cersei is on the sept they still do it in the books but it's consensual,that's already pretty fucked up with you asked me my problem is that Jaime is kinda of turning a new page in his character he's no longer the same guy who threw a kid out a window and he genuinily loves his sister so for him to just rape her is completely off ,I get it that the circustances are different in the show and by a certain extent Jaime is a different character but it still feels out place this worries me because I really fear that Jaime may take the Stannis route and be completely ruined by the writers,overall the episode was great(this and the Sam&Gilly scene aside) especially after I rewatched it and most of it wasnt in the books so they clearly can deliver good stuff when they want to,that being said I think the enourmous backlash this got is a litttle too much but try and tell that to the internet.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

Todinho wrote:spoiler tag anwser
Spoiler: show
Well in the books Jaime isnt on King's Landing at the time of the wedding he only arrives later and the first meeting he has with Cersei is on the sept they still do it in the books but it's consensual,that's already pretty fucked up with you asked me my problem is that Jaime is kinda of turning a new page in his character he's no longer the same guy who threw a kid out a window and he genuinily loves his sister so for him to just rape her is completely off ,I get it that the circustances are different in the show and by a certain extent Jaime is a different character but it still feels out place this worries me because I really fear that Jaime may take the Stannis route and be completely ruined by the writers,overall the episode was great(this and the Sam&Gilly scene aside) especially after I rewatched it and most of it wasnt in the books so they clearly can deliver good stuff when they want to,that being said I think the enourmous backlash this got is a litttle too much but try and tell that to the internet.
Spoiler: show
I think it's a really interesting turn for show-Jaime to take, but I can understand the upset as it's a fairly big departure from the character in the book. Within the show I think the scene is completely justified: for the best part of three seasons Jaime has been a victim to others; getting captured, losing his hand, unable to save Joffrey. He saw through Cersei's attempts to seduce him into killing Tyrion, and this insult was the straw that broke the camel's back. I find the scene interesting as the way it's blocked suggests that, at one point, it might have been more consensual than it comes across in the final edit. But the addition of the repeated 'stops' makes it clear that he is forcing himself on her. It'll be important to see how the show deals with this scene going forward: if you've read the books you'll know the path that Cersei starts to take, and this could be the springboard for the show to go down that route.
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

Electric Crocosaurus wrote:
Todinho wrote:spoiler tag anwser
Spoiler: show
Well in the books Jaime isnt on King's Landing at the time of the wedding he only arrives later and the first meeting he has with Cersei is on the sept they still do it in the books but it's consensual,that's already pretty fucked up with you asked me my problem is that Jaime is kinda of turning a new page in his character he's no longer the same guy who threw a kid out a window and he genuinily loves his sister so for him to just rape her is completely off ,I get it that the circustances are different in the show and by a certain extent Jaime is a different character but it still feels out place this worries me because I really fear that Jaime may take the Stannis route and be completely ruined by the writers,overall the episode was great(this and the Sam&Gilly scene aside) especially after I rewatched it and most of it wasnt in the books so they clearly can deliver good stuff when they want to,that being said I think the enourmous backlash this got is a litttle too much but try and tell that to the internet.
Spoiler: show
I think it's a really interesting turn for show-Jaime to take, but I can understand the upset as it's a fairly big departure from the character in the book. Within the show I think the scene is completely justified: for the best part of three seasons Jaime has been a victim to others; getting captured, losing his hand, unable to save Joffrey. He saw through Cersei's attempts to seduce him into killing Tyrion, and this insult was the straw that broke the camel's back. I find the scene interesting as the way it's blocked suggests that, at one point, it might have been more consensual than it comes across in the final edit. But the addition of the repeated 'stops' makes it clear that he is forcing himself on her. It'll be important to see how the show deals with this scene going forward: if you've read the books you'll know the path that Cersei starts to take, and this could be the springboard for the show to go down that route.
Spoiler: show
I can see what you mean but it wasnt done well if the intent was that I personally dont think this adds anything to the plot or character and for alot of people Jaime's character is done now if they are doing their own thing with the character it's fine but at the same time I worry because Jaime is one of the best characters in the books so it's there that I worry I just dont want another Stannis happening because Jaime is also one of my favorite characters in the books and in the show
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

Welp I just watched this week's episode I wont say any spoilers but I might be done with the show after today.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Beck »

I'm intrigued to why you feel like that? Something with the plot or the shows way of doing it?

I've not watched the latest episode but have read the books.
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

I think some of the original stuff the've put in the show has crossed into fanfiction territory and im also scared that the show might be spoilling the books,those are the 2 main things watch the episode and you'll know exactly what I mean,some people were fine with it but Im growing worried about the direction the show is taking.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by DomsBeard »

I get what you mean Todinho, the Reek stuff and the whole of the white walkers at the end of season 2/3? Have yet to happen yet in the books for me.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Beck »

I can see what you mean todinho, wtf was that. It feels like they are deliberately trying to shock people that have read the books.

I'm not sure what to make of that episode to be honest.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by DomsBeard »

Watching now...
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by DomsBeard »

Hang on
Spoiler: show
The whole Bran etc at Crasters doesn't happen in the books does it?

Also the white walkers stuff is rubbish too, no context
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Beck »

It doesn't make sense, and for them to reveal things in the TV show before the books is odd. They are maybe following what the walking dead have done by altering things slightly. I must admit it has kept me interested with TWD.

At the same time it feels like they are trying to leave each episode on a shock. It doesn't flow right, for me It is starting to feel hashed and unnaturally forced together. That's the first episode I've been disapointed with.
Todinho

Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Todinho »

It's so strange I dont even know what the angle is with this one,it really feels like fanfiction at this point and it it's even worse if they are giving info before the books because Daenarys is gonna enter her Dance storyline this season which leads me to believe that they make up stuff or put things that the know are going to happen in the books and at that point im not interested in the show anymore and if they break out and do their on things and say screw the books Im also not interested in watching because it's not the story I signed up to see kinda of my problem with TWD,there's no problem putting things that werent in the books hell I'd say the things about the show are the dialogues that are not in the books but I think you can only do it if it doesnt clash with the existing cannon.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

Beck wrote:At the same time it feels like they are trying to leave each episode on a shock. It doesn't flow right, for me It is starting to feel hashed and unnaturally forced together. That's the first episode I've been disapointed with.
Of course your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, but the end didn't come across as hashed or forced to me. We're starting to get into tricky territory spoiler-wise here, so I'm going to hide it just in case:
Spoiler: show
The reveal of what the White Walkers were doing with Craster's sons seemed to me like a natural extension of what was taking place at Craster's Keep in this episode. Bearing in mind that the tv audience hasn't seen this plot strand since Season 2 (it might have been verbally referenced in 3 with Gilly) it served as a useful visual cue that the Walkers are still very much a presence on this show. Unless the writers really start raiding Martin's unreleased material (and after last night's episode who knows what's coming up anymore) then we're unlikely to see the Walkers again this season, so this was a useful little tease.

Also, regarding the fan-fiction element, book-readers have long suspected the identity of the 'head other / white walker' as the Night King. It's one of the stories that Bran talks about in Book 3, where the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch took a blue eyed woman for a wife, before instigating a period of terror that was only undone when the King of the North and King beyond the Wall joined forces. While the TV show hasn't confirmed the identity of the leader seen last night (or even if that creature is their leader) the visuals would strongly suggest that this is the case. It's quite funny, as the TV show appears to have answered a question that book readers have had for years, and yet hasn't even been raised as a question by the TV show yet.

Also, as someone who hasn't been much of a fan of the White Walker designs seen so far (they always came off as very 'man in rubber suit' to me) I thought the visuals of those closing few minutes were beautiful and, appropriately, chilling.
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Beck »

Spoiler: show
It's maybe the fast pacing of the tv show against the books that is throwing me off, there is a lot happening in each episode and they seem to fly past bits that I'd expect to merit more time. I still don't believe the change in plot with Bran is required but it will be interesting to see where it goes.
Do you think coldhands will turn up in this season?
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Re: The 'everything goes' Song of Ice and Fire thread

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

Beck wrote:
Spoiler: show
Do you think coldhands will turn up in this season?
Spoiler: show
It could go either way. I've always thought he would turn up at some point, as I've always been fairly certain that he's Benjen Stark, and it would be odd to have introduced that character in the first season only to never close that off. However, tv is what it is, and I can just as easily see him as an element that could be cut out with little effect on the overarching story.
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