Street Fighter IV
- JaySevenZero
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Street Fighter IV
Here's where you can contribute your memories and opinions of the Street Fighter IV series for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.
Friendly reminder to all that where feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but self-editing (brevity) is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mainly reading. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
Friendly reminder to all that where feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but self-editing (brevity) is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mainly reading. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
More than ten years on, the Focus Attack Dash Cancel mechanic feels as exciting as it did when I first played Street Fighter 4 in a packed arcade in China. Although simple enough to execute, it offers amazing versatility in both attack and defence. The first time I realised I could cancel a fireball, then follow it across the screen to apply extra meaty pressure, I was grinning at the mischief it could cause. Likewise, when I learned that I could turn defence into attack by dash cancelling through an opponent's projectile, it was a revelation. It also brought about my all time favourite moment in any game.
My mate and I would play endless rounds of Ken vs Ryu, night after night. He was a really solid player, excellent at controlling space with projectiles, and he regularly used to anti-air me into an Ultra Hadoken or, even worse, trade hits into Ultra and take rounds where I'd been well ahead. It used to drive me mad. While Ken's kara throw is krazy and his mix-ups are marvellous, there's no easy way to set up his Ultra and I would regularly moan about this on a bad night, much to my mate's delight. I felt the wins tipping in his favour, I needed to find something extra and so I began to practise.
Without going into too much detail, a fierce dragon punch hits four times. If you cancel the second hit, it lifts the opponent off the ground enough for you to dash forward into another dragon punch, and so on. By turning on maximum meter in Training Mode, you could juggle the dummy back and forth across the screen, cancelling one DP after another. When I visualise it, I can still feel the inputs in my muscle memory, Then I practised cancelling the dragon punch into Ultra, hoping for a reliable set-up to finally turn the tables. To my disappointment, though, it wouldn't properly connect, and I couldn't understand why. Finally, after a lot of practice and even more frustration, I learned that the shoryuken needs to be a Counter Hit or you don't get enough juggle to land the full Ultra combo. It was hardly reliable, but I waited for my chance.
Shortly after, we were deep into another session. I was getting thrashed, trying to find a way through and then all of a sudden it happened. Just outside sweep range, I read the point blank fireball before he'd thrown it, absorbed it with the focus attack and dashed through straight into a fierce shoryuken. I don't know whether I caught the recovery frames of the fireball or the start up of a jab but the words I'd been waiting for flashed up: Counter Hit. It happened without any conscious thought. Dash Cancel. Full Ultra. Boofff. Ken Wins. It was a game changer and we both knew it. I didn't even celebrate, I just enjoyed the sweet silence. The most skilful thing I've ever done, months and months in the making, it was the best gaming moment of my life.
My mate and I would play endless rounds of Ken vs Ryu, night after night. He was a really solid player, excellent at controlling space with projectiles, and he regularly used to anti-air me into an Ultra Hadoken or, even worse, trade hits into Ultra and take rounds where I'd been well ahead. It used to drive me mad. While Ken's kara throw is krazy and his mix-ups are marvellous, there's no easy way to set up his Ultra and I would regularly moan about this on a bad night, much to my mate's delight. I felt the wins tipping in his favour, I needed to find something extra and so I began to practise.
Without going into too much detail, a fierce dragon punch hits four times. If you cancel the second hit, it lifts the opponent off the ground enough for you to dash forward into another dragon punch, and so on. By turning on maximum meter in Training Mode, you could juggle the dummy back and forth across the screen, cancelling one DP after another. When I visualise it, I can still feel the inputs in my muscle memory, Then I practised cancelling the dragon punch into Ultra, hoping for a reliable set-up to finally turn the tables. To my disappointment, though, it wouldn't properly connect, and I couldn't understand why. Finally, after a lot of practice and even more frustration, I learned that the shoryuken needs to be a Counter Hit or you don't get enough juggle to land the full Ultra combo. It was hardly reliable, but I waited for my chance.
Shortly after, we were deep into another session. I was getting thrashed, trying to find a way through and then all of a sudden it happened. Just outside sweep range, I read the point blank fireball before he'd thrown it, absorbed it with the focus attack and dashed through straight into a fierce shoryuken. I don't know whether I caught the recovery frames of the fireball or the start up of a jab but the words I'd been waiting for flashed up: Counter Hit. It happened without any conscious thought. Dash Cancel. Full Ultra. Boofff. Ken Wins. It was a game changer and we both knew it. I didn't even celebrate, I just enjoyed the sweet silence. The most skilful thing I've ever done, months and months in the making, it was the best gaming moment of my life.
Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
(And I do apologise for the length of this one, but I thought I might be bold as it's lighter on feedback than most threads. It's also a story that needs a bit of mechanical context, I think!)
- Magical_Isopod
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
TWR: TOO MANY RELEASES
I have only very brief experience with Street Fighter IV. At the time I picked it up, the Super version had already been out for a while, so I picked it up thinking it was the "complete edition". Silly me. I was a little miffed to find out there were at least two other releases out there - an Ultra and an Arcade Edition, each incrementally more complete than the other.
My history with the series at that point had been primarily with the Sega Genesis version of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, though I'd also dabbled a bit in Alpha 3 and Third Strike. I picked T. Hawk and played a few rounds and was just... Kind of underwhelmed. by that point, I had already moved onto BlazBlue as my fighting series of choice, and contrasting the gorgeous spritework of BlazBlue with Street Fighter's chunky 3D models did not work well in Street fighter's favour - it felt harder to figure out things like hit boxes, timing of moves, stuff like that. It wasn't awful by any means, it just felt stiffer and less reliable than sprite-based fighter's. Plus on an aesthetic level, I can't say I'm particularly fond of the comic book art style they chose for SF4.
Ultimately, SF4 is not a bad game by any means. It just felt a bit also-ran compared to not only it's contemporaries, but also juxtaposed against the more mechanically interesting Third Strike and Alpha 3. For my money, there are just more interesting and more visually appealing fighting games out there, and SF4 kinda felt like it didn't do enough to reach beyond SF2 nostalgia and make something truly special.
I have only very brief experience with Street Fighter IV. At the time I picked it up, the Super version had already been out for a while, so I picked it up thinking it was the "complete edition". Silly me. I was a little miffed to find out there were at least two other releases out there - an Ultra and an Arcade Edition, each incrementally more complete than the other.
My history with the series at that point had been primarily with the Sega Genesis version of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, though I'd also dabbled a bit in Alpha 3 and Third Strike. I picked T. Hawk and played a few rounds and was just... Kind of underwhelmed. by that point, I had already moved onto BlazBlue as my fighting series of choice, and contrasting the gorgeous spritework of BlazBlue with Street Fighter's chunky 3D models did not work well in Street fighter's favour - it felt harder to figure out things like hit boxes, timing of moves, stuff like that. It wasn't awful by any means, it just felt stiffer and less reliable than sprite-based fighter's. Plus on an aesthetic level, I can't say I'm particularly fond of the comic book art style they chose for SF4.
Ultimately, SF4 is not a bad game by any means. It just felt a bit also-ran compared to not only it's contemporaries, but also juxtaposed against the more mechanically interesting Third Strike and Alpha 3. For my money, there are just more interesting and more visually appealing fighting games out there, and SF4 kinda felt like it didn't do enough to reach beyond SF2 nostalgia and make something truly special.
Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
But...It's mechanically one of the deepest and most complex fighting games ever made, much moreso than 3S or Alpha 3, and its success dwarfed every other fighting game of its era.
- Magical_Isopod
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
Complexity to one is obtuseness to another. SF4 felt overly convoluted which, when considering the issues I had with 3D models over sprites, just made for a less enjoyable experience for me. You're allowed to love it. I strongly preferred BlazBlue in the day. I found the mechanics of Third Strike and Alpha 3 to be more *interesting*, even if less complex. Que sera sera.
Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
Spoilered to not clog up the issue thread.
- Spoiler: show
- Magical_Isopod
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- Magical_Isopod
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- James
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
Hi both! Thank you so much for your comments. You've both encouraged me to think long and hard about my thoughts on SFIV's complexity, approachability, and impact on the fighting game genre. I think there's a middle ground to be found between your respective perspectives. With your agreement, I'd like to dive into that a little on the podcast recording on Friday.
To give you a picture, I'm currently sat, paper in hand, furiously scribbling notes about fighting games released between 2000 and 2008. I think it's a fascinating period in the genre's history, and your discussion has fired me up to think a lot about it.
To give you a picture, I'm currently sat, paper in hand, furiously scribbling notes about fighting games released between 2000 and 2008. I think it's a fascinating period in the genre's history, and your discussion has fired me up to think a lot about it.
Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
Of course that's fine with me, glad the spoilered back and forth was of some value in sparking a few thoughts - even if we didn't get too close to common ground!
And one more thing, I absolutely love this 'Impractical Combo' guy, he really captures the insane goofiness and creativity and the frankly pointless complexity the game offers:
https://youtu.be/ol0cULzLdqw
The kara combo is hilariously unnecessary.
Can't wait for the show!
And one more thing, I absolutely love this 'Impractical Combo' guy, he really captures the insane goofiness and creativity and the frankly pointless complexity the game offers:
https://youtu.be/ol0cULzLdqw
The kara combo is hilariously unnecessary.
Can't wait for the show!
- James
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
Haha, the editing alone has me laughing.
- Magical_Isopod
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
That's really cool! I'm not sure if I'd agree with your stance if this were politics (Third Way, no way, etc.), but it deffos lends to good critical analysis. If I were to lend a more general comment: I think when you have an Internet full of tier lists and frame-by-frame analyses of movesets, what often gets lost is... Lots of people play fighting games for reasons other than getting deep into the competitive scene.James wrote: ↑January 28th, 2019, 4:21 pm Hi both! Thank you so much for your comments. You've both encouraged me to think long and hard about my thoughts on SFIV's complexity, approachability, and impact on the fighting game genre. I think there's a middle ground to be found between your respective perspectives. With your agreement, I'd like to dive into that a little on the podcast recording on Friday.
To give you a picture, I'm currently sat, paper in hand, furiously scribbling notes about fighting games released between 2000 and 2008. I think it's a fascinating period in the genre's history, and your discussion has fired me up to think a lot about it.
Actually, this bit might be an interesting anecdote for the podcast: I actually worked launch day for the original Street Fighter 4, and we actually wound up selling out of copies. Very few of those were preorders. Most of the customers were 20- and 30-somethings who had nostalgia for Street Fighter 2 - a few of them even commented they didn't know a SF3 was even released - and that makes sense, given that SF3 was not really released on the best selling consoles of the day until Street Fighter Anniversary Collection on the PS2. Maybe all of those people are on the EVO circuit - but I doubt it.
I honestly couldn't care less about the mechanical complexities of fighting games. I am perfectly content to button mash until I figure out some simple combos. I love how doing Distortion moves in BlazBlue Central Fiction causes cheesy J-Pop to start blasting while the screen fades to black and your character does some ridiculous super move animation. THAT'S what I'm in fighting games for. I don't care about being good - I wanna be entertained! XD
- Simonsloth
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- Magical_Isopod
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Re: Our next podcast recording (1.2.19) - 355: Street Fighter IV series
I could go on a massive ramble like I did with Street Fighter 2 but I won't.
I think for me it is Street Fighter perfected and it probably will never be bettered and is probably my favourite fighting game of all time. I tried to love V I really did but I still went back to IV.
If I had a gun to my head and had to choose one I would choose 2 still purely based on nostalgia and memories however I prefer 4 as it made me appreciate and get good with 6 or so characters which from someone who played just Ken and Ryu for 20 years. It was also responsible for one on my all time gaming highlights.
I was playing as Ryu around 2am one and had a tight match and went into the final round. I can still remember the adrenaline now and jumping off the sofa giving a ridiculous fist bump, enjoy:
https://twitter.com/richspurs24/status/ ... 2706953216
I think for me it is Street Fighter perfected and it probably will never be bettered and is probably my favourite fighting game of all time. I tried to love V I really did but I still went back to IV.
If I had a gun to my head and had to choose one I would choose 2 still purely based on nostalgia and memories however I prefer 4 as it made me appreciate and get good with 6 or so characters which from someone who played just Ken and Ryu for 20 years. It was also responsible for one on my all time gaming highlights.
I was playing as Ryu around 2am one and had a tight match and went into the final round. I can still remember the adrenaline now and jumping off the sofa giving a ridiculous fist bump, enjoy:
https://twitter.com/richspurs24/status/ ... 2706953216