Yeah I totally understand that and agree but it is the manner and point in the game that happens I don't think it earned it for me. But by looking around the Internet now looks like I'm in minority with that
The Last of Us Part II
Re: The Last of Us Part II
- Jon Cheetham
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
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Hear hear. As someone who has played a lot of Resi Evil games,Angry_Kurt wrote: ↑July 10th, 2020, 10:01 amThat's a great shout from what I've played so far. It won't happen but it would be great if they did a new sci fi IP.
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- KSubzero1000
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- KSubzero1000
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
First paragraph again insisting I'm toxic after having a lack of empathy before. Don't feel repeating myself or explaining myself again to be honest. You know best
Re: The Last of Us Part II
*Apologies in advance for the extreme post length, I'd intended to write a short summary. Oops!*
I spent twenty hours or so thoroughly rinsing Naughty Dog's magnum opus. I scoured every lovingly crafted environment, found every collectable and marvelled at the stunning tech, well drawn characters and snappy dialogue. Almost twenty years on, Jak and Daxter is still a brilliant game (sorry!). It was also the last game I played before The Last of Us Part 2, which I finished a couple of days ago.
Ultimately it was a failure for me, both narratively and from a game design perspective but my feelings on it are complicated so bear with me while I try and form them into something coherent. I wasn't actually going to post anything but thought it might be interesting for folks to hear from someone who didn't like the game who isn't a total psychopath who'd wish harm on it's creators!
I'll start with the story. A brave and hugely ambitious multi-perspective, non linear convention defying epic with industry leading tech, performances and direction. I have enormous respect for what ND attempted here, but for me it's a tale of under examined character motivations, muddled themes and plot missfires with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the chest.
So...I didn't get on with the story. What am I left with? Firstly, the presentation is unbelievable. I've nothing to add to the conversation that hasn't been said but I think this is by some margin the most technologically impressive game I've ever played. Just stunning in every area.
The gameplay then? Admittedly I was already tired of this formula before I started the game but there was nothing here to convince me otherwise. As with all things this is very much a matter of personal taste but I've played too many games in recent years with this mix of shallow 3rd person combat, stealth and light exploration for it to excite any more. I was bored of it by hour ten. By hour twenty? I just wanted the thing to end.
A problem I have with a lot of AAA games in this mould is the prevalence of the contextual elements needed to portray a realistic character moving believably through an environment, limits what creators can allow player characters to do and means that responsiveness and control is taken away even for basic actions. I find a lot of the simple satisfaction of execution and player expression missing when so many actions are essentially performed for you. It's telling that in most of the game's more exciting set pieces and climactic encounters, what limited control you do have is pared back or stripped away entirely. There's not a lot of meat on the bones here but of course, gameplay or sytemic depth is not the priority. It's all in service of supporting the real focus, narrative.
ND's focus since uncharted has always been creating cinematic, story lead adventures and their games have often been criticised for being overly scripted and shallow but I've never felt it more keenly than I do here. As their storytelling ambitions increase and with their tech reaching ever higher heights, I do wonder whether this formula is truly the best vehicle for delivering a grounded, narrative focused game like this when, to my mind, so many gameplay compromises are made in service of the cinematic presentation. It just doesn't feel good enough any more. The infamous ludonarrative dissonance was in full swing for me here too.
If I think about story heavy games I've played recently that I've really got into they all have something in common. Interactivity and some form of player participation in forming the narrative with few or no action elements. The story is the gameplay. I'd love to see a game from ND where the gameplay itself revolves around story interactivity, not combat. Of course they wouldn't be afforded the same privilege of unlimited time and budget, the market wouldn't allow it. And that seems like a shame.
Overall then. A fascinating, flawed, polarising juggernaut of a game. I'm glad I played it. Despite my misgivings I've enjoyed hearing other opinions and it's great that so many people seem to have gotten so much out of it, even if ultimately, it wasn't for me.
I spent twenty hours or so thoroughly rinsing Naughty Dog's magnum opus. I scoured every lovingly crafted environment, found every collectable and marvelled at the stunning tech, well drawn characters and snappy dialogue. Almost twenty years on, Jak and Daxter is still a brilliant game (sorry!). It was also the last game I played before The Last of Us Part 2, which I finished a couple of days ago.
Ultimately it was a failure for me, both narratively and from a game design perspective but my feelings on it are complicated so bear with me while I try and form them into something coherent. I wasn't actually going to post anything but thought it might be interesting for folks to hear from someone who didn't like the game who isn't a total psychopath who'd wish harm on it's creators!
I'll start with the story. A brave and hugely ambitious multi-perspective, non linear convention defying epic with industry leading tech, performances and direction. I have enormous respect for what ND attempted here, but for me it's a tale of under examined character motivations, muddled themes and plot missfires with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the chest.
- Spoiler: show
So...I didn't get on with the story. What am I left with? Firstly, the presentation is unbelievable. I've nothing to add to the conversation that hasn't been said but I think this is by some margin the most technologically impressive game I've ever played. Just stunning in every area.
The gameplay then? Admittedly I was already tired of this formula before I started the game but there was nothing here to convince me otherwise. As with all things this is very much a matter of personal taste but I've played too many games in recent years with this mix of shallow 3rd person combat, stealth and light exploration for it to excite any more. I was bored of it by hour ten. By hour twenty? I just wanted the thing to end.
A problem I have with a lot of AAA games in this mould is the prevalence of the contextual elements needed to portray a realistic character moving believably through an environment, limits what creators can allow player characters to do and means that responsiveness and control is taken away even for basic actions. I find a lot of the simple satisfaction of execution and player expression missing when so many actions are essentially performed for you. It's telling that in most of the game's more exciting set pieces and climactic encounters, what limited control you do have is pared back or stripped away entirely. There's not a lot of meat on the bones here but of course, gameplay or sytemic depth is not the priority. It's all in service of supporting the real focus, narrative.
ND's focus since uncharted has always been creating cinematic, story lead adventures and their games have often been criticised for being overly scripted and shallow but I've never felt it more keenly than I do here. As their storytelling ambitions increase and with their tech reaching ever higher heights, I do wonder whether this formula is truly the best vehicle for delivering a grounded, narrative focused game like this when, to my mind, so many gameplay compromises are made in service of the cinematic presentation. It just doesn't feel good enough any more. The infamous ludonarrative dissonance was in full swing for me here too.
If I think about story heavy games I've played recently that I've really got into they all have something in common. Interactivity and some form of player participation in forming the narrative with few or no action elements. The story is the gameplay. I'd love to see a game from ND where the gameplay itself revolves around story interactivity, not combat. Of course they wouldn't be afforded the same privilege of unlimited time and budget, the market wouldn't allow it. And that seems like a shame.
Overall then. A fascinating, flawed, polarising juggernaut of a game. I'm glad I played it. Despite my misgivings I've enjoyed hearing other opinions and it's great that so many people seem to have gotten so much out of it, even if ultimately, it wasn't for me.
- timmytimer
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
A win from me. Probably my favourite game of all time.
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Couple of articles I've found interesting :
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wccftech.c ... llain/amp/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/last-of-us-part-2
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wccftech.c ... llain/amp/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/last-of-us-part-2
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Cheers, I'll have a good read.DomsBeard wrote: ↑July 13th, 2020, 9:14 pm Couple of articles I've found interesting :
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wccftech.c ... llain/amp/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/last-of-us-part-2
Have you checked out these vids? Both very good. The first is particularly brilliant.
https://youtu.be/Bat38vErWr4
https://youtu.be/bh5gzGs-63Y
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Started replaying TLOU Remastered last night. Going to play it through just to really look at Joel. Already forgot about
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- Jon Cheetham
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
Loved how the opening sequence of TLOU sketches out so much of what you need to know about Joel.
And yeah that Noah Caldwell Gervais video is a banger. I recommend digging into his channel for those who enjoyed it.
And yeah that Noah Caldwell Gervais video is a banger. I recommend digging into his channel for those who enjoyed it.
- Electric Crocosaurus
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
The discourse around this game has made for really interesting reading. It's a cliche that gets wheeled out whenever a game deals with adult themes, but I really do believe that TLOU2 is a big step in video games maturing as a medium. The argument for / against Abby / Ellie keeps revolving around this idea of who is a hero and who is a villain, because that's what the majority of games give you; a clearly-labelled protagonist who acts as an avatar for the player to live out their power fantasies. TLOU2 steps away from that and it's challenging for a lot of people, which is why I'm not surprised (just very very disappointed, in my best teacher voice) that fans of the first game have had violent reactions against the sequel.
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- Angry_Kurt
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
Just finished the game last night and overall thought it was great. Upon completion I was really pleased with the whole story but reading this article highlighted some points to me around the ending that has changed my opinion on the ending somewhat. Overall though, despite these criticisms, it was one of my favourite PS4 games.
http://mikesuskie.blogspot.com/2020/06/ ... ddled.html
http://mikesuskie.blogspot.com/2020/06/ ... ddled.html
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Angry_Kurt wrote: ↑July 20th, 2020, 9:36 am Just finished the game last night and overall thought it was great. Upon completion I was really pleased with the whole story but reading this article highlighted some points to me around the ending that has changed my opinion on the ending somewhat. Overall though, despite these criticisms, it was one of my favourite PS4 games.
http://mikesuskie.blogspot.com/2020/06/ ... ddled.html
Read that article last night and it pretty much nails on my thoughts on it.
- Angry_Kurt
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
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- Angry_Kurt
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- Joined: May 1st, 2020, 2:53 pm
Re: The Last of Us Part II
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- Jon Cheetham
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
The story of Part II doesn't really go into
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