Todinho wrote: ↑March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I get your overall sentiment Ksub but I think you're misguided in holding up God of War as something whose structure should be preserved since God of war has been on a decline, arguably since before 3 with the psp spin-offs, if you remember the last game in the series, Ascension, didnt exactly set the world on fire and even at it's peak GoW was always unfavorably compared to it's japanese counter parts in the character action genre, so why would the devs want to cling to a formula that was, by all accounts, in decadence?
Yes and no.
Unlike most other character action game purists, I actually do think quite highly of the GoW games. I would never claim that their combat engines are on the same level as Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta, but I think they do make up for it through impeccable presentation, pacing, enemy variety, sound design and artistic direction. The mechanics themselves are rather simplistic, but I'll go on record and say that the way in which they are used is impeccable. Playing through GoW2 and going from one incredible yet substantial setpiece to another is a very rewarding experience. This game's curated structure and presentation style is the kind of experience that I would absolutely love to have on the modern generation of console. No, Uncharted doesn't count.
I agree that Ascension is by far the low point of the series, but I can't agree with throwing the PSP games under the bus in the same breath. Ghost of Sparta alone is one of my favorite entries in the series.
Also, while they may be comparatively shallow, the higher difficulties do force the player to learn the ins and outs of the combat and can create some very satisfying moments as a result. Beating Zeus in GoW2 or Hades in GoW3 on the highest difficulty are some of my most cherished gaming memories.
With all that being said, I get the argument that the developers had done pretty much everything they could with that specific formula and that there wasn't much room left for improvement. I can agree with that. But their structure is precious and should be preserved for its unique presentation style alone.
Todinho wrote: ↑March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
On this new game they seem to want to tell a more mature story and I agree that you dont need to turn all games in the format of TloU to do it but I dont think you can keep the same structure of the old games either especially if you want to have this relationship between Kratos and the kid through the whole game, even if you dont like the 'run and talk' thing its better then if you needed a cutscene everytime Kratos and the kid talked breaking the flow of gameplay so I think that change is fine
What's wrong with cutscenes, especially since they offer the director almost all of the established tools of cinematic storytelling? What is the tangible benefit of forced walking sections, since they very rarely, if ever, require proper interactivity and automatically lessen replay value by virtue of almost always being unskippable?
MGS3's script is 120 thousand words long, manages to tell a fairly mature story with plenty of memorable and believable character dynamics, and most importantly, never encroaches on its own gameplay. It just understands when it's time to talk about things and when it's time to actually do things, and assigns its resources accordingly. Simple as that.
No, I completely abhor this trend of forced walking sections. It's the worst of both worlds for no other reason than "immersion". Let's not pretend that the poor developers have no other choice than to butcher interaction on the altar of Holy Narration. You definitely
can deliver on both story and gameplay if you put your mind to it. The problem is that a lot of AAA developers think that the only way to tell a proper story is by taking the pseudo-cinematic simulation route, instead of analyzing how their own medium works.
I'm open to be proven wrong, btw. I hope this game blows my mind and shows the world how to properly integrate an AI companion in both gameplay and story without compromising either one. But what I
don't want is yet another TLoU-style interactively challenged feels-athon that gets a 10/10 from Forbes Magazine but leaves me disappointed. I've got more than enough of those already.
Todinho wrote: ↑March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I mean think about it so between fights you might have to walk and talk to the kid well what did you do between fight in God of war, well you just walked.
Not really. If you tally up the time you spend in GoW2 either platforming, solving puzzles, or following environmental clues that lead you to relevant treasures, and compare it to the time you spend strictly walking from A to B, I think you'll find that the balance will ever so slightly tip in favor of the former. Hence the term "action-
adventure". The former may not be combat, but they're still gameplay segments. Furthermore, the few pure walking segments that exist are almost always used as establishing shots thanks to the dynamic camera design happening at the same time.
The problem with shoehorning walky-talky elements is that it does negatively impact pacing and replayability. Pressing Triangle next to a yellow mark on the wall in order to trigger the next line of dialogue while the animations play out is neither proper gameplay nor a skippable cutscene. That's why TLoU has all these dumb ladders and water sections. So the player can pass the time while the dialogue happens. It's all smoke and mirrors and I find it incredibly condescending.
In MGS3, you can either pay attention to the well-directed cutscenes and/or codec conversations that don't pretend to be interactive for no reason, or you can just skip them on repeated playthroughs. Best of both worlds, every second is put to good use.
Todinho wrote: ↑March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
I`d like also to bear in mind that there are plenty of series that simply stick to their formula and just stagnate and die, Silent Hill is a prime example where every Silent Hill post 4 was desperatly trying to mimic Silent Hill 2 and they all pretty much stuck to the formula of the old ones, the exception was also the most successfull game out of all of the western ones which was Shatered Memories that took a completelly different approach.
Good point. There are indeed numerous series that just don't have any room left for growth and should best be left alone, Silent Hill being a perfect example.
One thing to keep in mind though, is that Silent Hill had always had trash gameplay / combat. Which is one of the reasons why SM is so good: It understands what to focus on. Losing out on trash-tier Silent Hill combat is no big deal. But as stated above, I don't think the same holds true for GoW.
Todinho wrote: ↑March 20th, 2018, 10:15 pm
if it [..] turns out to be just a walking simulator then it`s fair to pick up the torches and pitchforks.
See you on the other side, mate.