Backwards compatibility

[magicjoef]

We're on the brink of new consoles, neither of which offer backwards compatibility (although possible streaming in the future that you might have to pay for again?). I'm not surprised about that for the PS3 as they are changing the architecture, but I am disappointed Xbox couldn't fit it in, especially for the XBLA games that should be a breeze to get working (but then what do I know?).

What will everyone be doing? Just saying goodbye to your old collections and consoles and trading them in to get some money off your new stuff? Keep them out next to your new box for a while? Box them up and put them in the loft just in case?

I suspect lots of the games will be sold to us again on the new platform via their download service, does that make it more annoying or appease the fact it isn't a built in feature?

I understand when you buy a game for a console you shouldn't expect it to work on everything ever, but I do think XBLA is the first time I've really felt they probably aren't carrying them over purely for financial motivation, not technical reasons.

[ratsoalbion]

A few years ago I was convinced that MS couldn't do anything other than make the next Xbox compatible with all previous XBLA titles and that it would simply be a matter of downloading them again to the new console's hard drive.

I can't consider properly packing a console away - all mine are nearby available to be hooked up at any time. Just because a new console is out how could I suddenly disregard my much-loved collection of titles acquired over the previous years?

What tends to happen is that as updates and re-releases come out, which I buy on a case-by-case basis depending on their merits, my collection for the original machine dwindles to a point that I'm only keeping the older consoles for a handful of titles.

Consequently I still have PSone, Saturn, Dreamcast, PS2 and Gamecube all on hand, though Mega Drive, SNES, N64 and Xbox all eventually got sold - though one day I plan to own some of those again in NTSC format.

I'm going to need to make space for PS4 and Xbox One but I can't see myself unhooking the 360 or PS3 for years to come. Far too many great games on those that I haven't come close to finishing with, including maybe 400 downloaded titles.

[Scrustle]

I'm definitely keeping my old consoles hooked up when the new ones come around. That said, I have no idea where I'm going to put a new Xbox. I don't really have any space left. It'll be a pain, but I guess I'll have to swap the out between cupboard and shelf depending on what I happen to be playing at the time.

I tend to keep old generation consoles hooked up for a long time anyway. Until recently I actually still had my PS2 and GC hooked up, until I replaced them with a PS3 and Wii U. I got out the PS2 to have a quick go recently too. I still have the Wii hooked up, even though I never use it any more. I've kind of got it there just to play GC games, even though I don't really play those any more either. But it doesn't take up much space, so it stays.

[Sinclair Gregstrum]

Great topic this! I was always a bit of Sega kid back in the day and many of my fondest gaming memories and favourite titles live on their platforms, so I've still got a Gamegear, Megadrive, Saturn and Dreamcast, although none are plugged in and haven't been used in quite a long while now. The one that has seen the most use over the years since it's heyday is the Saturn so I can dip back into Panzer Dragoon Saga - "my favourite game of all time" if there is really such a thing....

I've gone for an Xbox One first this generation, and it will probably mean the 360 and PS3 get put out of sight for at least a while until I've played through the titles I get with it at launch. I've got a backlog for both though that definitely needs going through and I don't need to sell for financial reasons so they'll be staying within reach for at least a year, before PS3 probably gets sold (I've only ever bought exclusives for it and never invested in PSN games) with the 360 probably staying permanently due to all the XBLA titles I'll never get back if I sell!

I really share your disappointment with XBLA games not carrying over to Xbox One, as it really flies in the face of everything else Microsoft is trying to achieve with their cohesive digital ecosystem. It would actually have been a huge selling point for them if everything could be carried over. Look at the iPhone, which internal architecture-wise has changed just as much as the X360 to X1 transition over the it's generations, yet all the software you download to iOS still works when you upgrade your hardware and operating system. I'm now basically going to be an iPhone user for the foreseeable future as I've invested so much time and money in software for the platform that it makes no sense to change - a cross-platform XBLA could have given the Xbox brand the same hook.

[Flabyo]

The XBox One is actually different enough from the 360 architecturally to make backwards compatibility very hard too. (short version: 360 is big-endian, XBox One is little-endian, but there's more to it than that)

With the iPhone, it appears as if everything moves across smoothly mainly because developers have access to the new versions months ahead of time and can fix the issues before the public ever become aware there ARE any. The Arm family CPU they use hasn't changed significantly in terms of architecture either (the 5S using a 64 bit one is probably the biggest change).

Getting a iPhone 6 app to run on 7 is just a case of fixing a few calls that work differently now. Getting a 360 game to run on XBox One would involve compiling completely new binaries working to a totally different GPU architecture. It would be akin to making a PS1 game run on the Dreamcast in terms of complexity.

[ratsoalbion]

That's surprising, but excellent insight from someone in the know.

[Sean]

Even though I have a bunch of my old consoles, I never turn them on. Had the urge to power up my Gamecube the other day, and, fire up Windwaker, while everyone was talking about WWHD. Never did, though.

Ultimately, BC has never really mattered to me. I just don't play my old stuff as much as I'd like to think I want to.

I'll be keeping my systems hooked up for at least another year or two. PS3 for Dark Souls 2 and Lords of Shadow 2. 360 for HBO Go, maybe go back to State of Decay. Unless any of those come to next-gen platforms, that is.

[Sinclair Gregstrum]

There speaks a man who sounds like he knows what he's talking about!

I'd read an article on Digital Foundry (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... architects) featuring an interview by the system architects (quiet interesting stuff but much of it beyond me!) that sounded like they were trying to keep much of the same internal structure as the 360, although in obviously amped up form, as it had worked so well for them last time. Makes you wonder whether it's a financial decision rather than a purely tech based one....

[chase210]

I keep my gamecube round for pokemon colloseum/XD, about it.

[Scrustle]

...360 for HBO Go...

I remember a period when people used to say that they only ever used their PS3 for watching Blu Rays, and hardly ever for games any more. Now it's flipped with the 360 being used just for Netflix, etc. Funny how things change.

I've always spent around 99% of my time with the 360 on games though. Sometimes I use it for BBC iPlayer, or occasionally as a DVD or music player, but those cases are rare. Recently I haven't been playing my PS3 much either. In fact I have probably been using it more for Blu Rays/DVDs than games since I finished going through the God of War series. Should probably go back to my other stuff. Still got to finish off Okami HD and No More Heroes, among others.

I'm also really looking forward to LoS 2. It's seems a bit odd they're releasing on current gen so late after the new consoles launch, especially when one of the biggest things about the previous game was how gorgeous it was. If they wanted to blow people away with graphics again, going next gen seems like it would have been a better choice. Releasing on current gen means that it might not come off so well against other games released around the same time. Then again I guess they just wanted to stick with what they knew so they could build the game on their existing knowledge and tech. And the game still looks like it's shaping up be very pretty anyway. I just wonder how much more pretty it could look if it had more power to work with. Kind of a shame there won't be a LoS 3 for us to find out. Although I wouldn't want the narrative needlessly drawn out after its previously planned conclusion just to see how shiny the graphics could look.

And to continue down that off-topic thread, have you played Mirror of Fate? I don't have a 3DS, so I never have, but I'm looking forward to playing the HD version which will hopefully tide me over until the proper sequel.

I keep my gamecube round for pokemon colloseum/XD, about it.

Colosseum was actually one of the last GC games I played. I started a new file on it a while ago, just for the fun of it. I also read that you could trade Pokemon between the game and the gen 3 handheld games once you reached a certain point, so I wanted to try out finally being able to play the game with whatever Pokemon I wanted, instead of just having the few measly Shadow ones they give to you. It's something I've never really had a solid answer for though, so I wanted to try myself to finally see if what I read was really true. Never played XD though. Last time I checked it was pretty damned expensive to get hold of a copy. It's full price for a pre-owned copy.

And another thing on the general topic off BC. Even though I'm getting an XB1 day 1, I'm only getting one game with it so far; Forza. For me that's enough to warrant a purchase, but there isn't really anything else that appeals to me much around launch. The only other game I'm pretty sure I want in the foreseeable future is The Crew. So I imagine even though I'll have a next gen machine early, I'll still be playing older systems for a while, just because that'll still be where the majority of games I want to play are for a good while.

[NokkonWud]

I'm hoping with the fully powered Cloud up and running on both systems it will solve any B/C with owned digital titles. We know they're not linked to specific hardware, something that's plagued Nintendo in the past, so that's one hurdle down already.

[Beck]

The XBox One is actually different enough from the 360 architecturally to make backwards compatibility very hard too. (short version: 360 is big-endian, XBox One is little-endian, but there's more to it than that)

With the iPhone, it appears as if everything moves across smoothly mainly because developers have access to the new versions months ahead of time and can fix the issues before the public ever become aware there ARE any. The Arm family CPU they use hasn't changed significantly in terms of architecture either (the 5S using a 64 bit one is probably the biggest change).

Getting a iPhone 6 app to run on 7 is just a case of fixing a few calls that work differently now. Getting a 360 game to run on XBox One would involve compiling completely new binaries working to a totally different GPU architecture. It would be akin to making a PS1 game run on the Dreamcast in terms of complexity.

This is something I understand in a way but not in another. As an IT engineer I am working with physical and virtual machines day in and day out. In fact it's got to the point where virtual and physical machines are seamless. For anyone not aware of what this means, basically I can run another, or virtual computer inside my current computer as an application. So for example, my physical windows 7 pc at work has software on it called VMWorkstation, this software has allowed me to have a fully operational copy of our older XP machines running from my Windows 7 PC. The virtual windows xp machine shares the resources of my physical windows 7 pc and I can edit the distribution of resource, ie give the virtual machine more memory or processing power.

Sorry for being a bit technical, I've tried to write it into english but it may not come across like that So why can't the new consoles have virtual copies of their predecessors on board? This virtualization technology isn't new technology, Microsoft even have their own virtualization technology (hyper v). So why can I virtualise nearly any pc operating system ever made but the consoles cannot do it?

Edit
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I can understand why the next generation consoles won't have backwards compatibility, I don't think the costs would be worth it. At the same time, after seeing all the progresses in the business sector of computing, I don't believe it is as difficult as it is made out to be. Some of the latest advancements have been amazing to work with, such as delivering the autodesk suite from our server room to any pc in the workplace, regardless of the users pc operating system, spec or even location. I believe this technology is very similar of that used when streaming ps4 games to ps vita.
~~

Personally I don't bother with old games, I don't have the time as the new games keep me busy. The few times I have fancied playing an old game I've either bought a re release on the current consoles or used an emulator.

[Flabyo]

A virtual machine implementation would be possible, but would be unlikely to do 360 at full speed on XBox One. There machines are a little too close together in terms of power for that I think.

But as you say, the main stumbling block is cost. The extra sales from having the feature will be way less than the amount of money it would cost to implement.

[AndyKurosaki]

Definitely won't be selling my 360 or PS3, if I've not moved in with my girlfriend by November I'll be setting my PS4 up in my bedroom. PS3-wise I've plenty of games on my rental list. And though my 360 currently only functions as a DVD player, my kinect and rock band gear are close at hand when my brother comes round.