Videogame News

[Stanshall]

I don't imagine for a moment that he's anti-Semitic, rather than a twat, but please let this be the death knell for that vein of shit, lazy, 'shocking' ironic humour. Of course, the only mildly amusing irony is in Walt's own alleged goosestepping sympathies.

[Todinho]

For someone who constantly made rape jokes and screamed like a child Im surprised he never made anti-semitic jokes before, dont expect this will affect him too much though he is the biggest channel on youtube by far and I also doubt this will affect his subscribers much. It's a real shame though that this guy became the face of Let's play.

[Joshihatsumitsu]

This reminds me of how my Dad, who loves motorsports, doesn't like certain parts of that community of fans. Myself, as someone who loves gaming, also finds certain parts of the gaming community that I don't care to associate with, in any way whatsoever.

It's probably why I try to engage with this forum and community in particular, because I want to contribute in a positive and constructive way.

[DomsBeard]

This reminds me of how my Dad, who loves motorsports, doesn't like certain parts of that community of fans. Myself, as someone who loves gaming, also finds certain parts of the gaming community that I don't care to associate with, in any way whatsoever.

It's probably why I try to engage with this forum and community in particular, because I want to contribute in a positive and constructive way.

Yeah me too. I watched him play Alien Isolation once and lasted 40 seconds before switching off. I must be getting old as I don't see the point of watching someone do something that is readily available to do yourself.

[Craig]

I used to be fairly apathetic about the guy. Not my cup of tea but whatever, have at it. But any respect I had for the guy has quickly dwindled.

He's probably not racist, just your bog standard lazy offensive comedy. It's a tied formula of "find something people don't think is acceptable and loudly say it." Boring. Predictable.

But he's currently sending massive dog whistle signs to every anti PC group. He says something knowingly offensive to get a reaction, then pretends to be surprised and offended at the reaction. The problem here is it inevitably becomes people talking about free speech because they were called out on their bullshit.

Why is this a problem? He's got a lot of young fans. Many of which find what he did funny. If you tell someone "You know what you found funny? It's actually not cool" 9/10 they will double down and stick their heels in. Especially if they're young and on the internet.

There is a huuuuge overlap between this anti PC culture and the alt right. A lot of these movements were birthed in these forums of people telling off colour jokes, feeling isolated from people telling them it was shitty. His recent comments about how he is discriminated against by YouTube because he's white is straight up pandering to this crowd. Whether he believes it or not isn't really relative.

The biggest backlash right now seems to revolve around a skit where he pays some people to hold up a sign saying "Kill All Jews". As I said before, he probably isn't racist. The point of the skit is that it's funny that you can pay people to do horrible things now, cheaply and easily and isn't the internet crazy.

Well, that's what he thinks it is. The reason these people will do this for $5 is simple - they're poor. This isn't messing with scammers who are actively trying to screw you over. This is just making fun of people who are offering their services for a low price because hey, a man's got to eat.

It's Bum Fights 2.0, which was just a more extreme version of throwing a load of coins on the floor to watch a homeless man pick them up for fun.

And for that, fuck this guy.

[Joshihatsumitsu]

I used to be fairly apathetic about the guy. Not my cup of tea but whatever, have at it. But any respect I had for the guy has quickly dwindled.

He's probably not racist, just your bog standard lazy offensive comedy. It's a tied formula of "find something people don't think is acceptable and loudly say it." Boring. Predictable.

But he's currently sending massive dog whistle signs to every anti PC group. He says something knowingly offensive to get a reaction, then pretends to be surprised and offended at the reaction. The problem here is it inevitably becomes people talking about free speech because they were called out on their bullshit.

Why is this a problem? He's got a lot of young fans. Many of which find what he did funny. If you tell someone "You know what you found funny? It's actually not cool" 9/10 they will double down and stick their heels in. Especially if they're young and on the internet.

There is a huuuuge overlap between this anti PC culture and the alt right. A lot of these movements were birthed in these forums of people telling off colour jokes, feeling isolated from people telling them it was shitty. His recent comments about how he is discriminated against by YouTube because he's white is straight up pandering to this crowd. Whether he believes it or not isn't really relative.

The biggest backlash right now seems to revolve around a skit where he pays some people to hold up a sign saying "Kill All Jews". As I said before, he probably isn't racist. The point of the skit is that it's funny that you can pay people to do horrible things now, cheaply and easily and isn't the internet crazy.

Well, that's what he thinks it is. The reason these people will do this for $5 is simple - they're poor. This isn't messing with scammers who are actively trying to screw you over. This is just making fun of people who are offering their services for a low price because hey, a man's got to eat.

It's Bum Fights 2.0, which was just a more extreme version of throwing a load of coins on the floor to watch a homeless man pick them up for fun.

And for that, fuck this guy.

Well said!

[KSubzero1000]

Unrelated to the PewDiePie situation and more in response to Craig's post - I'm unsure as to what exactly you mean by anti-PC "culture" or what makes it a movement, but I do think that there are valid arguments against the over- or inappropriate use of political correctness and I take issue with seeing it being apparently conflated with the alt-right of all things. I don't like the notion of words being given more importance than actions. I don't like seeing individuals being hunted down and made examples of because they just so happen to have been "caught" using the wrong term at the wrong place at the wrong time all the while companies and/or governments are busy, y'know, committing genuine atrocities. I do think that a significant portion of the people participating in these witch hunts do so because they enjoy the thrill of it rather than because they genuinely want to make society a better place. I don't think that this atmosphere is in any way contributing to changing people's attitudes for the better. The smart bigots just adapt and learn to disguise themselves better while the ones with questionable, often inherited attitudes (but not necessarily beliefs) are being thrown under the wheel. That's not progress in my book. And on top of that comes the whole unhealthy celebrity culture and how people love to worship a select few and consume every detail of their lives only to tear them down in full force later.

Of course, there are positive aspects to political correctness. It can be great thing when it teaches people to understand other's perspective a bit better and how not to offend or insult inadvertently. That people come in all shapes and sizes and that their experiences and sensibilities matter. It should be a teaching instrument, not a blunt and inhumane weapon.

Empathy, respect and politeness: good. Witch hunts: bad. Criticizing certain aspects of the modern left does not make one politically right.

[Craig]

I can totally understand where you're coming from, and I do agree to a certain extent. I'm generally a supporter of political correctness, and instinctively roll my eyes when someone talks about political correctness gone mad as those examples generally are fabricated*, but I can see how the internet congregates around drama and people getting outraged, and sometimes it's used in this way. Sometimes people say things out of ignorance, and apologise, but for the mob it is too late.

But the anti-PC culture I'm referring to is people specifically railing against those notions because they don't like being told what to say. The people who write tirades about pandering when game companies add a new character who deviates from gaming norms. The subcultures that spend all their time reading websites they hate (because they are too PC) and complaining about them. Essentially what you dislike about PC culture, but for people who dislike PC culture. These are the places the alt-right has sprung from. Not everyone in these communities are part of that movement, but it certainly came from there.


Also, criticizing the modern left certainly does not make one politically right, and I know many very left comedians who hate PC culture.

*Likely a British reflex thanks to some of the absurd right wing press in the UK.

[gallo_pinto]

I'm unsure as to what exactly you mean by anti-PC "culture" or what makes it a movement, but I do think that there are valid arguments against the over- or inappropriate use of political correctness and I take issue with seeing it being apparently conflated with the alt-right of all things.

I know everyone will be approaching this from their own personal context (Do I remember right that you're from Germany KSubZero?). But as an American, I've seen the concept of being "anti-PC" be co-opted by people from the alt-right. I agree with almost all of the points that KSubZero makes about the witch hunt aspect of the internet and people who seem to take thrill in torpedoing careers. But in 2017, the only people I know personally who are against PC culture are people who want to be able to say racist garbage with no consequences. There is a legitimate conversation to be had about words vs. actions and whether people can make mistakes and learn from them (all super valid points from KSubZero). But in my own context, everyone I've seen who complains that the modern world is too "PC" really mean that they want to push back and make racist, sexist, homophobic comments acceptable again. Donald Trump's rise was largely fueled by him being anti-PC, so even as I agree with almost every point KSubZero made I feel pretty comfortable at this point equating people who are self-proclaimed "anti-PC" with the alt-right.

[KSubzero1000]

First of all, thanks for the kind replies, guys. Appreciate it.

I know everyone will be approaching this from their own personal context (Do I remember right that you're from Germany KSubZero?).

Yes, I am. Obviously, personal experiences will vary according to countries of residence, but I was primarily basing my comments on the behavior I have been observing on the internet. Which, for better or for worse, is universal. With that being said, I am indeed seeing quite a few moderate or politically neutral germans become increasingly frustrated with the left's tendency to talk around issues, continuously dodge certain topics, or to promote obvious double standards on account of political correctness. Especially over the last few years in regard to the migrant crisis. Some of these people then gravitate towards right-leaning parties under the (often correct) assumption that their motives may not be perfectly pure, but that they're at least ready to address the issue. Others just throw their hands up in the air and become disillusioned with the political system. Neither solutions are ideal, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand them. And I think that the left should bear its share of the responsibility for that. Having noble goals does not magically render one's attitude beyond criticism. Counter-culture becomes culture at some point. It's just the way time works.

But in my own context, everyone I've seen who complains that the modern world is too "PC" really mean that they want to push back and make racist, sexist, homophobic comments acceptable again. Donald Trump's rise was largely fueled by him being anti-PC, so even as I agree with almost every point KSubZero made I feel pretty comfortable at this point equating people who are self-proclaimed "anti-PC" with the alt-right.

No offense, but I find your methodology to be flawed. Allow me to explain. We are dealing with two distinct groups of people here, Group A and Group B. Group A is composed of people from all walks of life who take issue with the concept and/or implementation of political correctness within modern discourse. For the sake of simplicity, let's just say Group B is the alt-right. Obviously, there may be a small overlap between the two groups by default. But the thing is, even if the vast majority of Group B decides to appropriate Group A's slogans and talking points, it does not suddenly make the original members of Group A disappear, does it? Should we just pretend they no longer matter? Are they an acceptable loss, a collateral damage of the holy war? Do they just lose the benefit of the doubt on account of their new-found "neighbors"?

Here's a mirrored example to further illustrate my point. Trigger warnings originated as a practical mean for PTSD patients like war veterans and sexual assault victims to avoid having to relive painful and oftentimes debilitating memories. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, mental health being such a heavy issue. These people need all the help they can get, after all. But I don't think it's controversial to claim that the concept was soon appropriated by people who did not suffer from any form of PTSD but decided to misuse it as a political bludgeon instead. So, should we then allow others to assume that everyone they see or hear using the term belong to the latter group? I'm sure they "feel pretty comfortable at this point equating people who are self-proclaimed "triggered" with entitled tumblerones", after all. Does the reasoning sound familiar? Because that's exactly what's happening. The concept ended up being so misused that people now just automatically link it to the kooky left. So what about Group A? Where does it leave the genuine patients? It's not like they just disappeared overnight.

Obviously, I don't think that's very fair nor very productive. Rushing to labels and snap judgments is way too easy and often does more harm than good. I just don't like seeing entire concepts being dismissed out of hand because it makes our political "job" easier. There is so much nuance and subtlety which ends up being lost. And that drives people further apart and "justifies" their eventual counter-attacks, which only leads to extremism further down the road.

But in 2017, the only people I know personally who are against PC culture are people who want to be able to say racist garbage with no consequences.

I'm very sorry about all the jerks and scumbags you're coming across, but that data pool is nowhere near big enough to justify such drastic methodology. Reality is never that simple, nor is justice ever that easy, I'm afraid. Truth takes effort.

If some people claim to be against PC because they want to be able to be insulting and say disgusting things without facing any consequences, how about calling them out on the latter instead? Criticize their values, not the terms they use. It seems clear to me that it's their intent which is the problem, not the sneaky, borrowed way they choose to arrive at it.

*Likely a British reflex thanks to some of the absurd right wing press in the UK.

Aye, that makes sense. I don't read any paper myself, but I can totally see how constant exposure to garbage rags, coupled with the knowledge of the sheer number of people who are going to base their opinion du jour on it can shorten your fuse.

[gallo_pinto]

I think our disagreement here comes down to your Group A and Group B analogy and there only being a small overlap between the two. I've been following a lot of these anti-PC conversations online (on both sides of the political spectrum). And I disagree with you that most people who are self-proclaimed anti-PC are just looking for better, more practical solutions to the world's problems. I think the conversation that you are wanting to have is valid and helpful, but I don't think that's the conversation that is taking place on the internet. And I think people who are trying to make nuanced cases for how PC culture has gone too far have to recognize that a lot of people making that same argument are doing it from an extremely racist place. That doesn't mean the nuanced person (like yourself) can't make their arguments. But they have to recognize the extent to which their language has been co-opted by white nationalists and then make their arguments accordingly.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this issue though so that we don't co-opt the Videogame News thread (see what I did there? )

[ratsoalbion]

In videogame news, Resogun has got a PS4 Pro update!

[KSubzero1000]

...Message received. Sorry for the derail, guys.

[ratsoalbion]

It's absolutely fine; such respectful, high level conversation is welcome here.

[dezm0nd]

...Message received. Sorry for the derail, guys.

No need to apologise when it comes to quality conversation on this forum, mate.

[macstat]

Aw man! I was out of the loop for a week and such an interesting convo blew right by me .

On topic of ps4 pro, i recently thought about finally buying a consone, and was wondering if i should buy "old" ps4 which is much cheapoer right now or if i should buy Pro. I found nice thread on neogaf, where user Liabe Brave lists all games that got Pro treatment with list of changes. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread. ... t226436049 for anyone interested. I was kinda surprised with how often developers try to add more than just higher resolution, and on the other hand was saddened by some errors or significant framerate drops. Its obviously not the end of the world, more time devs will have with new console better optimized games will be. Just thought that post was really informative and worth passing along.

[Jusifer]

Aw man! I was out of the loop for a week and such an interesting convo blew right by me .

On topic of ps4 pro, i recently thought about finally buying a consone, and was wondering if i should buy "old" ps4 which is much cheapoer right now or if i should buy Pro. I found nice thread on neogaf, where user Liabe Brave lists all games that got Pro treatment with list of changes. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread. ... t226436049 for anyone interested. I was kinda surprised with how often developers try to add more than just higher resolution, and on the other hand was saddened by some errors or significant framerate drops. Its obviously not the end of the world, more time devs will have with new console better optimized games will be. Just thought that post was really informative and worth passing along.

i think it's quite simple. if you don't have a 4k tv or are not going to upgrade to one, the old ps4 is the right choice. basically if you don't have a 4k tv all you get is the fps boost and in some cases not even that. at least for me it's not worth paying the extra money now that the regular ps4 is even more affordable

[macstat]

I dont think 4k tv is required, since most of titles dont go as high as that ... but that could be a future proof purchase ? I probably wont buy another console in a long time so that could be better in the long run ... decisions decisions

[Joshihatsumitsu]

I dont think 4k tv is required, since most of titles dont go as high as that ... but that could be a future proof purchase ? I probably wont buy another console in a long time so that could be better in the long run ... decisions decisions

I agree that future proofing is the way to go with that purchase. I just have the regular PS4, and until it dies I'll probably stick with it.

[Jusifer]

I dont think 4k tv is required, since most of titles dont go as high as that ... but that could be a future proof purchase ? I probably wont buy another console in a long time so that could be better in the long run ... decisions decisions

while it's true that almost none get to full 4k resolution, most do go beyond 1080p and that would only be visible on a better than 1080p screen right? I must admit I've not seen the difference and all my opinions are based on what I've heard from podcasts and seen on the internet. looking at the list on your link the profit of pro on a 1080p screen are only better framerate and on some games better foliage and shadows and such right? I get the sense the graphical upgrades are hardly something you'd miss as the ps4 games are already very nice looking making the framerate the only selling point on a 1080p screen? now if you know you already have or are going to buy a 4k tv then pro is totally worth it as I've heard the difference in resolution and the HDR are what's really noticeable. but if not then by the time the future proofing comes to effect the pro might already be cheaper? idk I myself bought the older model as I don't have a 4k tv and will not be buying one in years and I think I would not notice all the graphical upgrades except for the framerate