All things Halo

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RoboticMonk3y
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Re: Our next Halo podcast recording: Halo 4

Post by RoboticMonk3y »

Flabyo wrote:Am I interpreting the ending differently then?
Spoiler: show
She sacrifices herself to save the chief from the didact. She isn't coming back from that. In the early teaser stuff for Halo 5 they show her empty memory chip being worn by the chief the way a soldier might wear the dog tags of a fallen comrade.
Spoiler: show
but they were glowing! and besides, that locke guy was cross at MC about something. MC has probably hijacked a computer to back up courtana or something and set off crazy courtana and things blew up <shrugs> like I said, I'm sure they're going to handle it somehow.
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Electric Crocosaurus
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Re: Our next Halo podcast recording: Halo 4

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

Halo isn't a series known for great storytelling, so it's perhaps not surprising that my favourite entries in the series are those that have the most linear and 'self-contained' stories; Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 4. Sure 4 comes with a lot of baggage, but it very quickly becomes a straightforward tale of the Chief going up against a new set of alien nasties.

In many ways 4 dropped the ball. Combat was more funnelled and less open to experimentation. Multiplayer was competent but had little to set it apart from previous games. Yet the thing that had been missing from the series since the first game for me was the sense of discovery, of crash-landing on a batshit crazy alien world and discovering it for yourself. Halo 4 recaptured that magic for me, and combined with the jaw-dropping graphics I had brilliant fun with the campaign.
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KissMammal
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Re: Our next Halo podcast recording: Halo 4

Post by KissMammal »

Halo 4 is easily my least favourite of the series and the one I spent the least time on. I'd probably put my apathetic feelings towards the game mostly down to fatigue with the series and my overall waning interest in videogames in general, but to me it just lacked a certain something. The only thing that really sticks in my mind about it is the new enemy faction and weapon set they introduced, and while I understand the need to introduce new enemies to keep things fresh, I personally couldn't stand them. I didn't warm to them on a visual level and from a gameplay perspective I just found them a bit of a tedious slog to fight at times. I also seem to remember that the vast majority of levels were set in or around slightly bland and unmemorable alien installations that lacked the scale, diversity and atmosphere of those of previous games.

Having said all that, saying that I find Halo 4 to be the weakest entry in the Halo series is basically saying its the least excellent of them. There's still a lot here to enjoy.
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Re: All things Halo

Post by MAp »

I've sadly only ever played Halo CE but I found the conversation about Halo's multimedia spanning narrative very interesting but perplexing. The idea of the series' overall story only truly becoming engrossing (never mind making sense) until you look beyond the games surely must be a negative statement on the games or Bungie/434's overall plan for the series?

Mass Effect's world does become richer on a fundamental level if you read the in game codex, but the story and characters of the game's main narrative still aim to be worth investing in on an emotional level.
Dark Souls deeper narrative may hide behind some reading of items and objects in the surroundings. But the core of going through the world is actually similar to what I remember of Halo CE, with simple hooks of 'you need to do this so go here', with a slight deviation of purposefully obscuring where that location is, I'm hoping to allow exploration so that you may discover that deeper layer (although I have no experience on whether that kind of discovery is more or less hidden than Halo's terminals?)
Spoiler: show
I feel the need to add that I think Dark Souls burying it's deeper narrative is mechanically sound for some of the choices the game offers with the most obvious one being the ending
I mainly say any of this as I feel the need for a multimedia solution to a game series' narrative does a disservice to the medium. I'm more than happy for a universe to be explored with various forms of art but when I hear whispers of Master chief's youth which can only be viewed from afar in a book or film I look at moments like the young Nathan Drake in uncharted 3 or the distressing ending of Papo & Yo and think "I'd rather they tried that".
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chase210
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Re: All things Halo

Post by chase210 »

Does uncharted have the same huge universe as Halo though? Horses for courses and all that, although I do agree like I said in my Halo 4 piece that when it gets to a point that you need to have read, what is it, at least 3 of the books, and watched a movie, it has gone a bit too far.
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Re: All things Halo

Post by MAp »

Oh yes I'm sure the scale and style of the Halo universe appeals to different people than the uncharted series' smaller Indiana Jones styled adventures, as I know I'm the kind of person that prefers a smaller scale cast of characters most of the time. But I hope that no matter the scale of the brand/universe it would aim to make each piece of the puzzle hold up by itself, with the larger world enriching rather than obscuring.

Also I forgot to say I was very warmed by how this discussion on the Halo 4 podcast was obviously something cared about by all but respectfully discussed, one of the many reasons I still listen to every C&R podcast no matter the game.
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KissMammal
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Re: All things Halo

Post by KissMammal »

Really enjoyed the episode.

Was very interested in the debate about Halo 'lore' and all that, and I'm very much team Leon & Josh when it comes to this. Look, I'm sure there are individual Halo spin-off novels or what have you that are decent-ish in their own right, but I've always considered the Halo universe, such as it is, to be very hackneyed. It's so utterly derivative; Johnson is literally just the Apone character from Aliens, the Flood is basically a weaponised version of John Carpenter's The Thing, and even the very concept of the Halo 'ringworld' is lifted wholesale from the Larry Niven novel of the same name. I much preferred the series when it had an element of mystery - the first game is narratively fine/functional, following a simple a-b-c plot and beginning as it does in media res. It's hard to even get a good look at the elites in the first game, and I liked that. You only have a vague notion of what you're up against*. The more they started to explain everything (starting with Halo 2), the more it started to fall apart as far as I'm concerned.

It's hard to articulate, but in my mind Halo is dead centre of this modern phenomenon where all this fiction/lore is generated in a very insular way for a core, uncritical audience, and when playing their games as a casual fan there's this sort of grating assumed knowledge the audience has, when in reality only a tiny percentage of players will have a clue what on Earth is going on in a game like Halo 4. It honestly strikes me as evidence of videogames' immaturity as a storytelling medium that developers still do this. I'm fine with tie-in media like comics and novels adding extra spice or depth to a fictional universe, but when all the heavy lifting of the actual storytelling is left to them - when a piece of fiction is literally incomprerehensible without them - it really, really bugs me. In my mind It's a lazy crutch, and a sign of an amateur storyteller. When you have to rely on spin-offs to convey character development and backstory, that to me is a sign that you need to seriously rewrite, streamline and simplify the 'master' narrative (in this case that of the game itself).

I also can't shake the suspicion - and I'll admit that this is my own biased opinion and it's a bit reductive and patronising - that the gamer hardcore audience of something like Halo often mistake good gameplay and good art direction for good storytelling. It can often seem like there's a bit of a 'preaching to the choir' relationship between a developer like Bungie and their clued-in, hardcore fanbase, when the casual fan who is a bit more removed is like "Really? That's your story?". This obviously doesn't just apply to Halo, nor even just videogames as a medium. The example Josh brought up of Arkham City is spot on. It boggles the mind that a developer would be so blinkered as to not even bother explaining the set up of the game to the 95% of their audience who did not read the spin-off comic.

Or hey, maybe in wanting something to be reasonably succinct and self-contained, I just have a very old-fashioned sense of what constitutes 'good storytelling' in a cross-media, interconnected world.

*It should be noted that this is one of the reasons why I think the Half Life lore is so much more interesting - they don't over-explain everything, there's very little exposition - most of the storytelling is purely experiential/visual which (imo) works so much better in the medium of videogames.
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chase210
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Re: All things Halo

Post by chase210 »

I've read some of the leaked spoilers for Halo 5, and if they're true (I will spoil this so be warned, huge 'spoilers for Halo 5)

Spoiler: show
Cortana is the main bad guy? Are you fucking kidding me. Thats so stupid.
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Sinclair Gregstrum
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Sinclair Gregstrum »

My copy of Halo 5 just dropped through the letterbox :D

God bless thegamecollection.net - £37.75 (think they've put it up by £1 now) and 3 days early!

Shame I've got to insulate my shed this afternoon.... :roll:
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Combine Hunter
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Combine Hunter »

Curious to see what people think of Halo 5, might be the game that gets me to buy an Xbox One.
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Flabyo
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Flabyo »

I've not been paying much attention to it, yet I have it preloaded on my xbo already. The thought of not playing it never even crossed my mind, regardless of the things I disliked about 4.
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DomsBeard
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Re: All things Halo

Post by DomsBeard »

At the risk of asking a daft question is Reach on the Master Chief collection or likely to be?. I don't have a Xbox One and plan to wait till Quantum Break but playing Reach and 3/ODST does sound appealing
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ratsoalbion
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Re: All things Halo

Post by ratsoalbion »

Reach isn't on TMCC and nothing has been announced. I'd say possible but unlikely.
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Flabyo
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Flabyo »

Reach will almost certainly be among the first games they get working via back compatibility when that launches officially. I'd be astounded if it wasn't.
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dezm0nd
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Re: All things Halo

Post by dezm0nd »

I think they eluded to it before the backward compat stuff was announced but after they showed the Reach boxart, front and center for BC, it's safe to assume it'll go that route instead.
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Combine Hunter
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Combine Hunter »

Which is annoying, because it's one of the few Halo campaigns I can see my self returning to. I would love a version of Reach running at 60fps at 1080p. :(
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Flabyo
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Re: All things Halo

Post by Flabyo »

Finished the Halo 5 campaign this afternoon. Short non spoiler version: I think it's better than 4 and 2, but not any of the others.

And I liked the ending.

This next bit IS a spoiler for near the end though...
Spoiler: show
The section where you hear the voices of the other AIs joining the hive mind. Reminded me a lot of the 'voice of the many' from System Shock 2. Creepiest thing I've heard in a game for some time.

Thought it was a pretty predictable plot, and one that bore almost no relation to the tv ad campaign. But at least I was able to follow this one, unlike the previous game.

At the moment I'm reading the novel series that starts with the book Ancillary Justice, and it's quite possibly the best sci fi I've ever read, so Halo's plot was never going to feel that amazing to me right now, heh.
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dezm0nd
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Re: All things Halo

Post by dezm0nd »

Yeah, I liked it overall. Better than 4 and 2, agreed. I am enjoying Solo Legendary, it feels like a challenge which 4 never did. The team mate regen is completely essential but man, they can be idiots at times :)
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KSubzero1000
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Re: All things Halo

Post by KSubzero1000 »

I unfortunately don't have anything to contribute in regard to 5, but I don't understand why 2's campaign gets such a bad rap. Listened to the podcast, still not fully convinced.

I don't mind the bossfights.
I don't have a problem with corridors. Allows for precise encounter design. There are still several vehicle levels.
I love the Arbiter plot inclusion and VA. Gives you a fresh perspective on the universe and challenges the usual Good guy / Bad guy dichotomy.
Best weapons and gunplay in the series with a few exceptions, like the dual Needler or the removal of the AR. But most are just really fun to use (BR, Beam Rifle, Energy Sword, Brute Shot).
Great enemy design and variety. The elites are so fun to fight in 2. I love the fact that the elites and the brutes feel so different during combat, instead of their weird amalgamation in 3.
Best OST.
Great level and encounter design for the first third of the campaign, deteriorates a little in the middle, picks up towards the end. Cairo Station has to be one of my favorite levels in any FPS I've ever played, both aesthetically and functionally.
I can understand why the abrupt cliffhanger at the end would annoy some players, but should it reflect poorly on the entire game?

3 feels really flat in comparison, despite several standout moments. 2 is probably my favorite Halo campaign and everybody's just dissing it. Hurts.
But then again, Halo seems to be one of those series that doesn't have any clear consensus in regard to quality. Some people argue for 4 as their favorite campaign and I can see where they're coming from. I think that's kinda cool.
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dezm0nd
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Re: All things Halo

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