Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

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Thesnipergecko
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Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Thesnipergecko »

Would you rather have:

  • Dynamic Resolution and solid 60 FPS
  • 1080p and variable FPS
  • 1080p 30 FPS lock
Discuss. For me, coming from a PC background, it would have to be a stable 60 FPS.

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Flabyo
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Flabyo »

Depends entirely on the game.

For fighters you want a 60 fps lock, the gameplay is frame critical (at least at the pro level of play).

For something like Skyrim im fine with variable frame rate, I want it to look as pretty as it can be.

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Sinclair Gregstrum
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Sinclair Gregstrum »

Honestly, specific numbers like 1080p or 60fps don't bother me. Whatever best serves the gameplay of what you're playing is good with me!

Generally that's a stable frame rate, whatever that rate is, as a dodgy one can effect gameplay and is genuinely a cause for complaint, but even then I've played plenty of great games with slightly wonky frame rates!

I find the whole storm around resolution a really weird one personally, with comments boards all over the web full of people spewing bile like "I was gonna buy that game but if it's not 1080p I'm not interested!" (in generally in a more aggressive and expletive-filled sentence than that one!), and muppets hurling abuse at each other because one console's version of a game runs at a slightly higher high def than the other’s. It’s so sad! A huge proportion of the greatest games ever made are in 4:3 standard def, so where this snobbery comes from and why it’s all of a sudden so important to people I have no idea!

My top three best looking games of this console gen so far are Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, and Mario Kart 8, so two Xbox One exclusives running at 900p, and a Wii U exclusive running at 720p! They look great not because of resolution, but because of fantastic art direction and design, and not once does the resolution they’re running at enter your head while you marvel at them (and I own a PS4, which I love, so no fanboyism here!).

It’s an interesting topic this and it’ll be fun to see what others here think, as I’m fast coming to the conclusion my feelings on it are a little out of step these days!

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Alex79uk
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Alex79uk »

Genuinely don't care as long as the game is good and it plays without obviously stuttering.

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countstex
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by countstex »

I think what's odd is that this is the second generation of consoles that have had a set goal of 1920x1080 due to TV resolutions and they are still failing to achieve this consistently. Given we are on the edge of 4K I find it quite odd. Yes there are things which have a bigger impact than resolution on how a game looks but PCs have been achieving it for so long now it has me concerned over what's going on. Maybe AMDs strangle hold on the console market had bred lazyness.

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Flabyo
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Flabyo »

It's a cost versus performance thing.

A plug and play device designed for the mass market at a mass market price is never going to match a custom built gaming rig.

It's not meant to. It isn't for the same audience.

(And yes, you can probably build a gaming PC that outperforms the PS4 for less than it costs to buy a PS4. But while *you* can, I doubt average percentile consumer can.)

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mikeleddy83
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by mikeleddy83 »

Yeah, dynamic here. I'm not as sharp eyed so a smooth experience suits me best. Being a refreshed pc owner I see the difference quite clearly when returning to console but it's nice to see the consoles push it hard, I guess it's subjective based on the format to a degree. A poorly developed game is still technically rubbish though ;)

There is quite a correlation between well developed "10/10" games and a consistent frame rate but that won't deter me from picking up Until Dawn when it goes cheap.

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Scrustle
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Scrustle »

I've actually found this topic rather interesting to think about as it's popped up lately. Depending on the game, I think I'd prefer dynamic resolution with 60fps. As long as the resolution doesn't drop to something ridiculously low, I think the constant high frame rate is more important. When you're trying to concentrate on a fast paced game a dip in frame rate is a really big problem. It can really throw you off, and can even be worse than a consistent but lower frame rate. But for resolution though, it's not so important. In moments where resolution may need to be reduced (a lot of stuff happening/moving on screen at once) your brain simply can't pick up as much detail anyway. So in a way, human vision already works with the same method.

For slower paced games a lower frame rate is fine, but a consistent one is still important. So I think with that type of experience a solid 1080/30 would be fine most of the time. I'm not quite sure on whether it's preferable to a varying frame rate though. It would probably depend on how much the variation is. I find past 30 a variation of up to about 10fps doesn't really bother me much. But more than that, or if there's a game that does depend on timing/reactions, I suppose the 30fps lock would be better.

Although this reminds me about the issue of refresh rates on TVs and such. The latest Extra Credits went over it in the latest episode, and from what they said it seems frame rate is tied to refresh rate in a way that makes pretty much anything in between 30 and 60 literally imperceptible. If a new frame can't fit within the refresh rate of the TV, then it's dumped (if you're using V-sync at least). In reality, no matter what the number in the corner of your screen says, you're really only getting 30 or 60 (unless you have a 120Hz monitor, etc.). So I guess I don't notice a 10 frame difference because there literally isn't one. Or maybe I've still got that wrong. I'm not sure.


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Flabyo
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Flabyo »

If you're not at a fixed multiple of the refresh rate of the monitor, you get tearing. Essentially you start drawing the next frame before the previous one has been fully displayed on the device. Some people prefer a drop to fixed 30 fps to a variable frame rate that manages 60 fps but occasionally drops lower and tears.

I'm pretty well trained to be able to tell frame rates by eye, its a thing you pick up with practice (I.e., you're staring at the same game all day every day for months so you can spot even slight changes in frame rate. Over time you can do it with any game. One of many things that being a games coder ruins for you, heh)

Best game for seeing how bad it can be is SEGA Rally on the dreamcast. It lurches between locked at 30 and locked at 60 every time you turn a corner. It's hideously badly optimised.

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Scrustle
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Scrustle »

The tearing is why I mentioned V-sync. With that turned on it just doesn't even bother to partially render the frame and just waits until the next refresh, right? And even without V-sync you still have the old frame left over from the last refresh when you get tearing too, so it's not like you're getting an intermediate frame rate either. It's more like you're getting 30fps (or whatever the TV refresh rate is) of fully unique, drawn frames, but with the in-between frames being only partially drawn. Is that right?

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Flabyo
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Flabyo »

Pretty much. If you lock to v sync you don't get tearing. But if you can't hold to 30 fps you shudder down to 15, which is pretty hideous to see. With non v sync you get the tear, half the previous frame left over. It's sometimes preferable to not v sync if your game only drops below 30 on occasion, a minor tear that occurs rarely is better than a complete frame drop if you're vsynced.

It's a complex problem. It tends to only be the renderer part of the code base that needs to worry, game code often runs at a far lower rate than 30 fps. I've worked on games where the AI is ticking at 15, even as low as 10 at times. It's just not noticeable.

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magicjoef
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by magicjoef »

Flabyo wrote:I've worked on games where the AI is ticking at 15, even as low as 10 at times. It's just not noticeable.
Huh, never thought about that before. Smart!

I'm mainly a PC gamer, so I'm very used to having to make performance decisions. I tend to lean on things running smoothly rather than looking the absolute best I can squeeze out. I do it by feel / by eye, rather than getting the FPS counter out :)

I go with the theory that if a game is good it will pull you in even without TressFX hair turned on :D So, a nice steady framerate for me.

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ultraviolet
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by ultraviolet »

i'm more interested in how the game plays really. and sometimes frame rate can kill the gameplay some what. some of the levels in Geometry Wars Dimensions on the Vita encounter frame rate issues and when your 'in the zone' it can really take you out of it very fast

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Sean
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by Sean »

I'd have to go with 30FPS/1080p.

As much as I enjoyed Halo 5, the dynamic resolution *really* messed with my eyes at certain points. Or, at least, that's the only thing I can blame it on, considering I don't ever have problems with 60FPS.

Currently playing the Uncharted 4 beta, and, it's nice that its in 60FPS and all, but, it would look so much better in 1080p. I don't understand why they made this change at all.

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MagicianArcana
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Re: Variable framerate or Dynamic Resolution?

Post by MagicianArcana »

I would always prefer for my games to be locked to one framerate. Doesn't matter if it's 60 or 30, as long as it's not choppy and doesn't jump around I'm ok with it.

If a game has a sudden drop in framerate it can sometimes mess me up. I'm happy that my gaming PC can handle World of Warcraft at a consistent 60 fps.

The constant fps drops in the Final Fantasy XV demo made it difficult for me to play. I'm sure they'll address that for the final release though. I feel that no matter how much detail you put into your game, it'll still look terrible if it can't run smoothly. When playing the demo I would sometimes stop and be impressed with the amount of detail in the world. But then I'd start running again and the fps would plummet making it hard to appreciate the detail because I was so distracted by the inconsistent framerate.

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