Retro gaming

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future
User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 993
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 11:57 pm
Location: London, ON, Canada

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Magical_Isopod »

Hello fellow gamers,

Does anyone know of a good technical documentary - video preferred, but written is fine too - that explains how so many Famicom Disk games wound up being ported to the Western NES (which didn't have disk support)?

I know the Famicom/NES was a potato from a technology standpoint, even when it was released, so I'm guessing it was cart technology... But the Famicom Disk System was a step up from the vanilla Famicom. So I'm curious to understand how these games were converted - and so closely, to boot.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Good question.

It's my understanding that the Disc System was created to be a more cost effective way of producing games in the 80's opposed to an upgrade - although it did add extra RAM.

However by the late 80's Semi conductor and chip prices came down meaning that company's were able to put larger chips into their carts, which were almost of large as the double sided floppies. I think Ghosts N Goblins was one of the first actually.

Apart from the additional hardware audio channels of the Disc system which Nintendo couldn't do anything about, by the time they released The Legend of Zelda in the West, they had solved the cart size by using extra now more affordable chips and had even made game saves a possibility by including battery back up (as opposed to the re-writeable Disc System).

Plus the system was pretty unreliable, as were it's disc's compared to the bulletproof Famicom and carts.

So really, if a game was popular enough, they were able to put it onto a cart and port it across.

The only real loss being the extra sound channels but otherwise the game were exactly the same.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Over the last 18 months I've been enjoying going back through the Castlevania games.

A big nostalgia kick were the first two games that came out on the DMG Game Boy. I had these but could never literally get past the first few screens.

Times have changed and these games are much more accessible nowadays and the original boxed games are becoming harder to get hold of.

The first game, Castlevania:Adventure, is a bit bad - the second game however, Belmonts Revenge, is much much better and well worth a poke around with if you're into the series.

It has a non-linier level choice, much like Mega Man say and is slightly more playable in terms of performance.

I've had the loose cart for years now but recently had the chance to upgrade to a boxed complete version.

This now completes the DMG set of three.

Sick box art. Sick.


Image

Image


This is me murdering the Angel Mummy boss with very little health left.

I was proud of this.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Retro gaming

Post by ratsoalbion »

😎
User avatar
Alex79
Member
Posts: 8422
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 12:36 pm
Location: Walsall, UK.
Contact:

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Alex79 »

Nice collection there. How are you capturing that footage off your Game boy?
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Alex79uk wrote: January 25th, 2020, 6:34 pm How are you capturing that footage off your Game boy?
Ah, I’m not mate.

It’s from the Castlevania Collection on Switch.

I’m using the capture footage to Twitter, then downloading to YouTube.

Mind, you could easily capture Game Boy footage like that if you wanted to. Super Game Boy, GBA player for GameCube etc....
User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 993
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 11:57 pm
Location: London, ON, Canada

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Magical_Isopod »

So I've been continuing my Chrontendo watch-through, and I'm up to the Famicom/NES games released through August 1987.

For the first time, I've FINALLY seen a game where I'm like, "Yeah, that game legitimately look amazing." And that one was Mario 2 and/or Doki Doki Literature Panic. But that's also my favourite game on Mario All-Stars, and I'd def rather play that version - though the Famicom Disk version of the music is *great*, and the All-Stars version seems to use the NES version for basis, not the FDS one. So the music is a little less complex - a neat observation.

In general though, 1987 is a significantly better year for the Famicom/NES than all prior years. This is where games start getting good, where the graphics, music and depth of mechanics improve significantly.

And I'm seeing some really cool games I've never heard of before, like Sheherazad and one I've forgotten the name of (a Konami game somewhat resembling Castlevania, but with really high-quality art and a theme around Japanese demons and magic).

Suffice it to say, watching this series has given me a respect for the Famicom I never had before. The NES, on the other hand... Us western gamers REALLY missed out on some of the more creative and ambitious games of the era. Which is a shame, really. Especially considering American gamers were getting low-rent arcade ports from '83 and '84 into '89 and '90.
User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 993
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 11:57 pm
Location: London, ON, Canada

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Magical_Isopod »

Suits wrote: January 25th, 2020, 6:52 pm
Alex79uk wrote: January 25th, 2020, 6:34 pm How are you capturing that footage off your Game boy?
Ah, I’m not mate.

It’s from the Castlevania Collection on Switch.

I’m using the capture footage to Twitter, then downloading to YouTube.

Mind, you could easily capture Game Boy footage like that if you wanted to. Super Game Boy, GBA player for GameCube etc....
I use a Retron 5, but even using a SNES with a Super Gameboy is pretty easy to stream, with some technical tinkering. I have a component to HDMI converter box that handles composite as well.
User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 993
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 11:57 pm
Location: London, ON, Canada

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Magical_Isopod »

Anyone know if the original Karnov has ever seen a re-release in a compilation or digital download? I'm seeing it for the first time in this Nintendo chronology, and I absolutely want to play this. Who owns the rights to it these days?
User avatar
Flabyo
Member
Posts: 3576
Joined: August 8th, 2013, 8:46 am
Location: Guildford

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Flabyo »

Data East died a while back, and their IP was scattered to the winds, these guys apparently own Karnov now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paon_DP
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Retro gaming

Post by ratsoalbion »

Flying Tiger Entertainment has released 10 or so Data East arcade games on the Switch under the Johnny Turbo’s Arcade label (they’ve recently all been on sale for around £2 each), Karnov was notable by its absence though.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Th opportunity recently came up to get myself a Sony PVM 20L4.

So I did.

It's the one to the right of my 20M4E.

And I love it.

I'm going to spend some time this evening calibrating it and setting it up for a Super Famicom, PS1 and Gamecube.

Image
User avatar
Flabyo
Member
Posts: 3576
Joined: August 8th, 2013, 8:46 am
Location: Guildford

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Flabyo »

Old Sony TVs really are the workhorse of the retro game scene, they seem to last forever.

Yesterday evening Analogue announced that the set of cartridge adapters for the MegaSg were available to order. These let you play GameGear, MyCard, Sc-1000 and Sc-3000 games on it. Figured I’d order some this morning, but they were already sold out.

I don’t think they thought that everyone that bought the MegaSg would be interested. They were wrong, so they’re making more.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Flabyo wrote: February 8th, 2020, 12:43 pm Old Sony TVs really are the workhorse of the retro game scene, they seem to last forever.
I know what you're saying but sadly the reality is that they don't.

I've kind of got into the preventative maintenance of these things a little, not so much the repairs (yet) but the signs that things are starting to go south.

An issue with these things is that some of the capacitors are starting to fail. Specifically a pair that make sure the right boundary photons land in the correct place.

A sign that things are starting to slip is that you begin to see horizontal RGB lines creep in.

Not knowing what these are, or mean specifically, often result in owners adjusting the horizontal frequency and hide them off screen, only for the capacitors to swell more, and fail in keeping the boundary's as they should and the lines creep back in.

Then, when they come back, users adjust it again to hide them until eventually they go pop and can destroy the whole tube.

Flabyo wrote: February 8th, 2020, 12:43 pm I don’t think they thought that everyone that bought the MegaSg would be interested. They were wrong, so they’re making more.
Speaking of Analogue, I got the chance to play around with one of those DAC's the other day.

It was with a Mega SG (with a Mega CD cart) on my 20L4 above and boy was I impressed with the results.

An almost lossless signal, with many many calibration settings all built in resulted in a wonderfully accurate picture.

I'll still role with the original hardware for now, but it's reassuring (and extremely exciting) to know that these things are out there and offer a wide range of fun things to mess around with.

I fucking love Analogue and what they are doing.
User avatar
Flabyo
Member
Posts: 3576
Joined: August 8th, 2013, 8:46 am
Location: Guildford

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Flabyo »

Yeah, the consoles show a real desire from them to help preserve video game history, but the DAC shows they also understand that a large part of that is the *entire* experience, which includes playing on CRT.

The MegaSg has a mode where it tries to figure out where developers were using dithering to fake transparency and instead actually render it transparent. It works really well in some games, like Virtual Racing and Sonic 2, but not so much in others.

One thing I do find interesting with all the many pixel art indie games we see now is that it’s not *actually* the aesthetic we were playing back then, they’re celebrating what pixel art looks like in crisp HD. But developers on the MD and Snes we’re trying their utmost to *hide* the pixels.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Not sure anyone likes to see this type of stuff, but I ran the 240p Test Suite on my 20L4.

I used a 1-CHIP Super Famicom via RGB SCART running the suite.

I was happy to see that it's actually very good already, so I checked a few other things and adjusted the brightness/contrast a bit as my office is windowless and very dark..

It's stunningly vivid, very sharp unit.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

This is incredible.

Essential viewing.

User avatar
Stanshall
Member
Posts: 2370
Joined: January 31st, 2016, 6:45 am

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Stanshall »

Will definitely check that out later in bed.

Not seen you around so much recently, hope all's well. Have you gone full retro? :)
User avatar
Alex79
Member
Posts: 8422
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 12:36 pm
Location: Walsall, UK.
Contact:

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Alex79 »

He's been mailing in his forum relies by post.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 3:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits »

Stanshall wrote: February 17th, 2020, 8:21 pm Not seen you around so much recently, hope all's well. Have you gone full retro? :)
Hey man, yeah, I still login daily and see what’s going down - there’s not too much that I can get involved in at the moment(chat wise), so I tend to just lurk.

Funny you say that about going full retro but since I grabbed my newest PVM I’ve fallen head over heels again for my SNES and games that I’ve never played.

Adams Family Values - Good Game !!

Also, I got well into FF5(2). I only intended to have a quick poke around but the story grabbed me.
Post Reply