Retro gaming

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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ratsoalbion
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by ratsoalbion » May 28th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Excellent.

There’s also a cool new DF Retro with our man John looking at the Castlevania Collection.

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Suits
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » May 28th, 2019, 6:27 pm

ratsoalbion wrote:
May 28th, 2019, 5:18 pm
There’s also a cool new DF Retro with our man John looking at the Castlevania Collection.
That’s queued up for tonight’s viewing that is.

Been waiting for this.

I’m on a bit of a Castlevania surge at the moment.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » May 29th, 2019, 10:03 am

Image left is a Sony PVM, image right is a LG OLED.

Pretty good comparison image.

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » May 29th, 2019, 10:33 am

I don't like emulated scanlines, I always turn off that hideous bilinear filtering that softens the image too
for example
Yes, mate
No, mate
I like everything to be crisp and clean, but I remember some guy on a forum explaining to me that graphics back then were made with the scanlines in mind and showed me a few examples and they did look way better.
I still always turn scanlines off though, am I a bad son?

There's folk who buy scanline generator boxes for older hardware so it looks more like a crt on their modern lcd displays. You seen those?

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Alex79uk » May 29th, 2019, 10:41 am

No I always turn scan lines off and any kind of graphic filter for old games or emulation. Hate that smudgy smooth smear over the crisp, perfect pixels.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » May 29th, 2019, 10:53 am

clippa wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 10:33 am
I don't like emulated scanlines, I always turn off that hideous bilinear filtering that softens the image too for example Yes, mate No, mate I like everything to be crisp and clean, but I remember some guy on a forum explaining to me that graphics back then were made with the scanlines in mind and showed me a few examples and they did look way better.
I still always turn scanlines off though, am I a bad son?

There's folk who buy scanline generator boxes for older hardware so it looks more like a crt on their modern lcd displays. You seen those?

It's hard on modern panels to replicate the full CRT effect.

Some fabricated scanlines can look good, the recent Flashback re-master on the Switch has some great options, it even had skew and bow options to curve the image corners that gave a very good effect.

Personally though, if I'm playing on a modern panel, I just leave everything off and run a crisp, overly sharp image (I don't often play this way if I can help it mind).

The attraction to a fuzzy, glowing CRT image is the blending and shading that you get in areas that have been clearly considered by the designers when creating the sprites.

Axle's arm muscles above are a good example of that, where I feel that the CRT image gives a much better representation of an arm, than the raw pixels of the OLED.

Of course, the scanlines play a big part in that with spacing and softening of an image.

In that case, fabricated scanlines can help to make things look a bit easier on the eye.

OSSC's have a myriad of wonderful options to get things looking better/worse depending on your preference but you can spend ages tweaking things to what you think looks better.

Ultimately there's no wrong or right answer and personal mileage very much varies per application I find.

I just thought the SoR2 image was a good representation of the two displays so thought I'd share.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » May 29th, 2019, 11:35 am

Yeah man, very interesting. Thanks for that. I'll have to look up one of the examples that guy posted, it was like a night and day difference. I'll never be able to find it.

edit: Oh, here we go, my google-fu is strong!

scanlines
no scanlines for you, baby

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by ratsoalbion » May 29th, 2019, 11:38 am

There are some great CRT/scanline emulations, and some terrible ones - and everything in between. Very much a case by case basis.

What I will say is that having played a hundred odd old original cabs at the weekend, while it was absolutely delightful to see those games running on their rightful hardware with screen burn, warping, magnetisation and all, most of these games look way prettier to me when running on modern hardware and via my Sony 4K LCD.

That may be sacrilege to some and lord knows I adore those coin-ops, but Bomb Jack, Contra, Time Pilot et al pop vividly on their Hamster Arcade Archive editions, compared to the real vintage deal.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » May 29th, 2019, 11:49 am

clippa wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:35 am
Yeah man, very interesting. Thanks for that. I'll have to look up one of the examples that guy posted, it was like a night and day difference. I'll never be able to find it.

edit: Oh, here we go, my google-fu is strong!

scanlines
no scanlines for you, baby
Huh, wow, yeah.

At quick glance though, there’s more going on there than meets the eye I think.

The colour range and sync look well off.

First one looks like RF signal and the second component.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Flabyo » May 29th, 2019, 9:07 pm

The Analogue Sg has scan line stuff but I don’t bother with it. It does a really nice job of scaling for my 1080p tv though, so I think it looks a lot nicer than just plugging in the original Megadrive via scart. So my MD is still hooked to my 14” portable in the bedroom, the Sg is in the lounge on the big HD screen.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » May 30th, 2019, 8:30 pm

Of late, for no real reason I've been playing an awful lot of Castlevania games. Than usual anyway.

I'm currently well towards the end of Dawn of Sorrow on the DS, I've been playing my old GameBoy games and I've been messing with the Castlevania 64 I picked up at a convention a while ago.

I've got a special thing for the GameBoy games especially, as these were games that very much wow'd me as a child when I first borrowed my mates, Dad's, copy of Adventure when I was 9.

As hard and non-understandable as it was at the time, it felt special - like an adults game, and was compelling.

Turns out Adventure is pretty bad, incredibly slow and a bit rough in places but I still love it as it was a peek at the the serious side of gaming for me and seems to feel significant.

Then theres Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge, which is much better and the best of the GameBoy games bar far.

Both Castlevania and Belmont's Revenge, I own, on loose cart.


The final of the Castlevania games GameBoy Is Legends.

Released 1997, (the same year as Symphony of the Night), it was a late run game for the original DMG-01 GameBoy and reviewed very poorly - primarily as it was directly compared to its bigger brother, SotN (daft really).

A combination of these factors resulted in a small sales.

Then, being a KONAMI game and being a Castlevania game, it does have a bit of a lineage.

The perfect storm for an expensive game.

I didn't have this game at all, it's just too hard to come across and often too expensive. Even for a cart only.

Until this week.

An opportunity presented itself and I took it, and the thing that tipped me over the edge into going for it ? - the condition.

I won't go into too much detail but this is by far the most expensive game I have bought. It's not silly money, but it's significant.


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I've had a quick mess about with it and its fine, sure it's not SotN, nor is anything like it in too many ways but it's a good Castlevania on the Gameboy. Too early to say if its better then Belmont's Revenge but its feels OK so far.

Interestingly, this isn't on the new Castlevania Collection that realised last week, the other GameBoy games are but not this one, too late a release perhaps, maybe on a part 2 of the collection or something.

I also picked this up as part of the deal, nothing like as expensive but still a solidly priced game and I'm well pleased to have a boxed version of this game.


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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Michiel K » May 30th, 2019, 10:02 pm

^^^^ Great stuff. The game is a dud, but that Castlevania The Adventure boxart is as hype as hype gets.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Simonsloth » June 5th, 2019, 9:21 am

Simonsloth wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 6:58 pm
So I did something that put me in my wife’s bad books. I’ve added a CRT tv to my otherwise extremely cluttered “office” but I couldn’t resist. The Donkey Konga bongos were so wildly off on my flatscreen I had to get one sooner or later.

It’s a design and model I would have scoffed at back in the day as it’s pretty small and has a built in VCR. However it does the job. It’s not going to be any good for 4 player multiplayer but for the odd light gun or rhythm action game it’s perfect.

So rhythm paradise, donkey konga and point blank will be dusted off very soon. Maybe even dance dance revolution if I can tolerate Boyzone which is the beginner track.
A little update.

I’ve got my first day off in a long while with my wife back at work and both kids at nursery. So I’ve hooked up the tv with my n64 to play pilotwings 64. I had tried it on my LED flatscreen and it looked so washed out and terrible I had to stop playing.

It is insane how beautiful it looks on the CRT tv. It’s almost like a painting where the paint is still wet. It’s gorgeous. Excited.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Simonsloth » June 5th, 2019, 10:11 am

Worth noting that outside of Goldeneye and the odd couch multiplayer this is the first N64 game I’ve played myself.

I played a few other N64 games on Wii virtual console and found them difficult to control. However on original hardware they feel really good. The stick is lovely.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » June 6th, 2019, 9:22 am

Simonsloth wrote:
June 5th, 2019, 10:11 am
I played a few other N64 games on Wii virtual console and found them difficult to control. However, on original hardware they feel really good. The stick is lovely.

I’ve been playing an awful lot of N64 lately.

Mainly Pilot Wings, Castlevania and Doom 64.

I had fond memories of the N64 controller but never really thought much of it until recently and started comparing to what else was around at the time.

I think it’s a great controller, it’s pleasant to hold and gives great engagement with the Z button tucked around the back, set up in a certain way you can almost use it like a dual analogue pad (which I use for Doom 64).

I have a few tired pads with loose sticks but I also have a few (almost new) boxed pads, which are really stiff and springy, which are a joy to use. Makes the fiddly jetpack on Pilot wings easier to handle I find.


Going back to what you were saying regards how the N64 looks on the CRT, I have to agree it looks good, but I find the difference between games is massive in a number of way.

For instance, I find Pilotwings (initially), rather rough looking and fuzzy, after a while like all things you just get used to it and it’s perfectly fine and isn’t really set up to be a looker anyway. On the other end of the scale, Doom 64 looks incredible.

The colouring and depth of colour is lovely. From the charred walls of the corridors and fire red burnt sky to the bright crackling neon of the plasma gun – it’s easily the best-looking game on the console I’ve seen, especially on a well calibrated, high contrast CRT.

Which brings me to Doom 64, its brilliant, an absolute dream of an original Doom game. The proper Doom 3.

It sounds incredible and with a bit of controller config fiddling you can get it feeling wonderful. I really enjoy the level-based gameplay, traditional traps and set up of the first two Doom games – this is very much that, with little added extra but a grittier look.

I have a spare cart if you want to borrow one. I’d most certainly encourage it.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Flabyo » June 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm

I’ve got several n64 controllers with broken Z triggers, that seems to have been the main point of failure for me, no idea why.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Simonsloth » June 6th, 2019, 3:38 pm

Suits wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 9:22 am

For instance, I find Pilotwings (initially), rather rough looking and fuzzy, after a while like all things you just get used to it and it’s perfectly fine and isn’t really set up to be a looker anyway. On the other end of the scale, Doom 64 looks incredible.

The colouring and depth of colour is lovely. From the charred walls of the corridors and fire red burnt sky to the bright crackling neon of the plasma gun – it’s easily the best-looking game on the console I’ve seen, especially on a well calibrated, high contrast CRT.

Which brings me to Doom 64, its brilliant, an absolute dream of an original Doom game. The proper Doom 3.

It sounds incredible and with a bit of controller config fiddling you can get it feeling wonderful. I really enjoy the level-based gameplay, traditional traps and set up of the first two Doom games – this is very much that, with little added extra but a grittier look.

I have a spare cart if you want to borrow one. I’d most certainly encourage it.
Now I’m bidding on a copy of Doom 64 on eBay!

Re:pilotwings the main thing that stood out was the difference compared to my modern TV which the made the whole thing borderline unplayable. On the CRT it looks incredibly rich I’m colour and texture comparatively.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Chopper » June 7th, 2019, 8:25 am

Flabyo wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm
I’ve got several n64 controllers with broken Z triggers
Throw them out, man! De-clutter your life :D

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » June 7th, 2019, 10:10 am

Chopper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 8:25 am
Flabyo wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm
I’ve got several n64 controllers with broken Z triggers
Throw them out, man! De-clutter your life :D
No, send them to me !!!

I can fix them 😉.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » June 8th, 2019, 3:32 pm

Picked up a few bits this morning.

I went to my mates shop and traded in a few spares and swaps.

Came out with this lot.

Just a few interesting things I wanted. Eliet Beat Agents I've not played and am looking forward to playing it.

These are my first Neo Geo Pocket and Atari Jaguar carts, so that's nice to have - they are very cool, with really neat little details and form that make them unique.

The NGP comes with a cool GameBoy style case and has great cartridge markings and is very high quality. Plus its Turf Masters which is rad.

The Jaguar cart has a curved handle which should be mandatory on all carts, its wicked and again unique.


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