The Elder Scrolls

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DomsBeard
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The Elder Scrolls

Post by DomsBeard » November 9th, 2012, 11:49 pm

New DLC announced that looks very interesting......




On Sunday Skyrim is one year old. I've not really seen it mentioned much on here to be honest what are your thoughts on the game?. I've not gone into it much as if I start I would probably never shut up as for me it is my favourite game of all time. I tried Oblivion a few years ago on my very poor pc with a patch to run it in low texture graphics and had some fun but I didnt take to it too much as I found the levelling up system to be a waste of time as the enemies levelled up also plus I then lost my 80 hour save file! :(

I was quite cold originally to Skyrim as I had fallen in love with Fallout 3 and New Vegas so I didnt really follow its development much and like a sap I suckered in by a live action trailer.......



So I decided to get it day one as my Mrs was going away for a couple of weeks and was blown away by everything. I played around 60 hours in that time. The beauty of the place, the scale, the OST, the people. The best thing I would say about it is feels like the world of Skyrim is going on around you its not waiting for you to arrive before something happens.

I've recently hit 200 hours in the game and I'm still not bored!. The best thing I ever decided to do was not fast travel at all whilst playing the game, it really helps with immersion as your not just watching loading screens and turning in quests left right and centre. I bought the Dawnguard DLC and not continued much as the next marker is at the far opposite of the map to me! :lol:

Anyway I'll shut up now :D

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Re: Skyrim

Post by Alex79uk » November 10th, 2012, 7:39 am

I put about 90 hours of gaming in to a month with it, and haven't touched it since. It just became too broken to play on my PS3. Last time I tried it there was a bug which crashed the game if you entered water. How Bethesda got off so lightly I don't know. They shipped a fundamentally broken game. Absolutely LOVED it whilst playing though. Amazing game.

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DomsBeard
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Re: Skyrim

Post by DomsBeard » November 10th, 2012, 7:41 am

Yeah I've heard it's awful on PS3, a Bethesda standard. I'm on 360 and luckily just had the one crash.

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Re: Skyrim

Post by JaySevenZero » November 10th, 2012, 8:21 am

I have, over what is now my third playthrough, put over 300 hours into this game. I love the world with its diverse landscapes and the myriad of quests (347 is the most I've done so far). The fact that I could spend several days just learning to smith items and still enjoy it was testament to how good the immersion in this game was for me. Similar to Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption, this is a game where I enjoy just aimlessly wandering about.

But...

...the whole experience was tainted by Bethesda's underhanded approach when they knowingly released a broken game on the PS3. I had invested over a hundred hours into the game when I had to simply shelve it due to the fact it had become unplayable, where five minutes of gameplay would result in a framerate drop to around eight frames per second. Then they attempted to lay the blame for this on the difficulty of PS3 development, an excuse they have since retracted, excepting full responsibility for the issues themselves. They did eventually fix this issue, although if memory serves the patch that addressed this was released in February of this year the best part of four months after its initial release. Unfortunately it seems that whatever they had to do to the game to fix it has now conflicted with the DLC, resulting in none of it having been released for the PS3 to date. The unfortunate effect of all of this is that I, as a consumer, will be extremely cautious of purchasing a game with their name attached to it from this point forward.

I still play Skyrim a lot and thoroughly enjoy my time spent in that world. Whilst in hindsight had I known of how bad the issues would be beforehand I would have purchased it on the 360 instead. Having said all that, I still don't actually regret buying this version of the game knowing that I've at least had my moneys worth out of it (There is only been one game I have truly regretted buying to date and that was Heavy Rain).

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Re: Skyrim

Post by Alex79uk » November 10th, 2012, 12:04 pm

Really? Why was that? I loved Heavy Rain!

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Re: Skyrim

Post by ratsoalbion » November 10th, 2012, 12:33 pm

Time to start a Heavy Rain thread. For the record I agree with Jay.

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Re: Skyrim

Post by JaySevenZero » November 10th, 2012, 1:01 pm

Wizard Of Odd wrote:Really? Why was that? I loved Heavy Rain!
Don't get me wrong, I don't regret playing it - just parting with £35 buying it day one. It was something that I should have used Lovefilm for. The reason for this? The story and the general writing in the game is frankly crap, with dialogue being the standard of that of a cliche ridden George Lucas script. Add to this the sloppy voice acting and bizarre accents, frankly dreadful peripheral characters and the absurd and unnecessary sci-fi leanings with one of the characters. Not to mention the actual mechanics which, at the end of the day weren't anything to write home about - left me feeling I'd wasted good money on a game that was all hype and so little substance.

Skyrim on the other hand - despite the serious technical issues with the version I purchased that took a fair while to be fixed - could never been accused of having little substance given the sheer amount of time I've invested into it so far.

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Sean
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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Sean » November 12th, 2012, 3:32 pm

This thread inspired me to go back to Skyrim, after dropping it a few weeks after launch.

God, I hate the combat in this game, but, man, no one does open worlds like Bethesda.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by DomsBeard » November 12th, 2012, 6:48 pm

Sean wrote:This thread inspired me to go back to Skyrim, after dropping it a few weeks after launch.

God, I hate the combat in this game, but, man, no one does open worlds like Bethesda.
Combats not great that's why to start with I specialised in bow and arrows. Dawnguard added crossbows too.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Scrustle » November 19th, 2012, 4:40 pm

I love the series. One of my favourites. This new DLC looks great, but I'm a bit ambivalent about it. I'm sure it'll be great and everything, as the larger expansions to Elder Scrolls games always are, but I'm not sure how I feel about going back to Solstheim. I've already been there, I was looking forward to going somewhere weird and unique, like The Shivering Isles was to Oblivion. I feel like that maybe part of the reason Bethesda chose to go with Solstheim is because they're trying to please the fans who go on about how Elder Scrolls hasn't been good past Morrowind. I'd rather they created something because they thought they could do something new and special, not to try and cash in on nostalgia.

But it doesn't bother me too much. I'm just excited to have more to do in the game, and in a setting that's a change of scenery from the usual Skyrim tundra and mountains. And to be honest, I would be lying if I said that no part of me wanted to go back to see how Morrowind or Solstheim has changed.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by DomsBeard » November 19th, 2012, 5:11 pm

I've never played anything prior to Oblivion so I didn't realise it was retreading old ground. I think I'll leave it till Christmas as I like to play Skyrim in several hour stretches and I don't really have time at the moment for that!.

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DomsBeard
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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by DomsBeard » December 8th, 2012, 5:32 pm

Anyone picked up Dragonborn yet?

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Scrustle
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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Scrustle » December 8th, 2012, 6:51 pm

DomsBeard wrote:Anyone picked up Dragonborn yet?
I have and I'm having fun with it. I haven't got very far the the main story but so far it seems pretty interesting and quite different from the usual Skyrim fare since it involves Hermaeus Mora. That said the actual quests haven't been much of a change from the norm though. Mostly still just clearing out Nordic ruins. I've picked up a few cool items though, like some water walking boots and a sword that fires out energy waves. The island itself isn't too interesting to look at either. There's only a handful of Dunmer buildings and it's either just snowy mountains to the North, like the mainland, or ash covered wastes to the South. Although there are some cool basalt rock column formations along the South coasts, and you can see Red Mountain spewing out ash clouds off on the horizon too. Couldn't really say if it was worth the money so far but it's already given me more time actually playing than plenty of other games they charge full price for out there. It's mostly the same kind of thing as the main game, but it's got enough difference to it to keep me interested. It's more different than Dawnguard was, but not on the level of Shivering Isles. But I haven't regretted getting it like I did with Hearthfire. It's also been pretty cool hearing all the music from Morrowind back, but I guess that's just nostalgia.

EDIT: Destructoid also just put up their review for it. Haven't read it myself (kind of pointless for me) but the score and final paragraph seems to show they really liked it.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Alex79uk » December 8th, 2012, 7:13 pm

I know I'm way off, but I just can't wait for a next gen Elder Scrolls game. Oblivion was probably one of the greatest, most immersive gaming experiences I've ever had (before it broke). I played it like a true RPG. Slept at appropriate times, ate at meal times, always tried to make it to one of my houses or an inn to rest, and never (most importantly) fast travelled. It was an epic, (fundamentally broken) masterpiece. I may go back to it at some point if only to finish the main story, but I so wish I'd bought it on 360. I'll give Bethesda one more chance...

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Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim

Post by Sellardohr » July 31st, 2016, 9:48 pm

I'm a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls games from 3 on. I haven't had a chance to play the older ones yet.

I favor Morrowind; in fact, Morrowind is my all-time favorite game. I love role-playing in it, and I think the systems of the game are intentionally designed to facilitate role-playing and immersion.

I was really disappointed by both the subsequent games because the storytelling was so much less layered, the themes so much less adult, the worlds so much less creative.

But what's excellent about those games is the streamlining of the gameplay. In fact, I find the swordplay in Skyrim really rewarding and fun on the higher difficulty levels -- stepping in and out, timing spells and shouts, blocking and power attacking at the right times, using one-offs like scrolls and potions appropriately.

It's more of a game, whereas Morrowind I see as more of a world.

But anyway, there's a question I wanted to ask the Cane and Rinse community. I wonder about this when I think about Skyrim and Morrowind.

Is there a reason games like Skyrim, which have streamlined, fine-tuned gameplay, can't be as immersive as more complex, simulation-oriented games like Morrowind? That is, if you took all the writing talent and vision that existed in a game like Morrowind, and took that and put it together with the modern game design acumen that designed the systems in Skyrim, would you get a product which has the best of both?

Or is that asking for too much? When do gameplay and storytelling have to grow at the expense of each other, and when can they grow together?

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim

Post by Flabyo » August 1st, 2016, 5:56 am

I agree that Morrowind had the most interesting setting of the three most recent Elder Scrolls. The giant mushrooms, houses built in the shells of long dead giant molluscs and so on... it felt like a very strange and alien place. Oblivion was just 'standard Tudor fantasy' and Skyrim 'standard Norse fantasy' by comparison, although I did enjoy them nonetheless.

Bethesda have had a pretty poor run with their stories of late despite having pretty great game mechanics, and as you say they've definitely improved the way they play.

To answer the question, I think you can have both at once, but you need a team with a better handle of narrative to work with Bethesda's tool tech to get the best out of it.

For example: "Fallout: New Vegas."

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Sellardohr
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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Sellardohr » August 24th, 2016, 1:30 am

You're right! Fallout: New Vegas kind of does hit both notes. But, on the other hand, the game mechanics are very simulation-y with the dice rolls. It's more streamlined than Morrowind, but less so than Skyrim or even Oblivion.

Sometimes it seems like it's a question of design focus and emphasis than whether or not good narrative and world-building and good gameplay can coexist.

I think real creativity gets diluted in large teams. And to build a super-fancy, modern game, you need a huge, cross-discipline team and a lot of investment. Even if you built a really creative person into such a team, you'd need an excellent manager to give that person enough authority to get a vision across and convince everyone skeptical that it was going to work.

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Flabyo
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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Flabyo » August 24th, 2016, 7:26 am

It's really hard for a single director, no matter how visionary, to hold the whole project in their head fully formed all on their own when they get to the size of an Elder Scrolls game.

I can look at Fable 2 and 3 and point at things and say 'this was Peter, this was Dene, this was Josh, this was Mike...' and so on. Each of the senior designers had their area that they were in command of, and they had meetings to make sure they were all working in the same direction. It's arguable how well that worked of course.

I think Oblivion is the one where it shows the most that each of the primary quest lines had a different design lead. (The main storyline, plus the four big guilds). The Dark Brotherhood quest line had a totally different writing style to the others, the thieves guild one was mechanically most interesting and so on... By Skyrim they've got themselves worked better and so there's no big differences in feel to the quest lines, but its still there. (This is one of the things I like about The Witcher 3, if they *are* working with multiple quest teams, they're *much* better at integrating their work to feel like they're all by the same designer).

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Sellardohr » August 24th, 2016, 2:10 pm

I certainly felt that about the guilds in Skyrim and Oblivion. One side effect is that each separate story has to make you the Mary Sue ultra hero, since that team only gets your attention once.

I haven't hit the Witcher games after the first, how do you think their worlds hold up against the likes of Morrowind?

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Re: The Elder Scrolls

Post by Flabyo » August 24th, 2016, 3:12 pm

Sellardohr wrote:I certainly felt that about the guilds in Skyrim and Oblivion. One side effect is that each separate story has to make you the Mary Sue ultra hero, since that team only gets your attention once.

I haven't hit the Witcher games after the first, how do you think their worlds hold up against the likes of Morrowind?
I didn't play the first Witcher, and found the second too hard so never finished it. But I know the books and have played the third and frankly it blows the Elder Scrolls world building out of the water.

Ok, having ten years worth of novels to draw from kinda helps them, but to me the Elder Scrolls games feel like a landscape that they've randomly dropped the towns and landmarks onto, whereas the towns and cities in the Witcher 3 feel like a part of the word. It feels lived in. (also, the towns in the Witcher feel like they could be functional towns, the ratio of houses to shops, and presence of things like livestock and so on...)

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