Capcom Vs Series
MVC2
While I can’t put too much commentary towards the game itself, the legacy of it is astounding. Akuma being the signature crossover character(a rule capcom broke eventually, sigh). It’s direct sequel having roster choices based on its meta, how long lived it was and still is. As of writing this, EVO was planned to have a MVC2 legacy event, but there was a pandemic. Who knew what would’ve been announced otherwise? We can only speculate. I doubt Marvel and Capcom have repaired their relationship, but that’s a story for another time. Additionally, there is a bit of a myth that goes around saying fighting games died, but in essence they left the public spotlight. We see it back with SFIV, but especially with MVC2, it never left – new tech is developed, the game is still played, and tier lists are changed. I picture MVC2 as an ever-burning candle of hype. It still gets rereleased, by it seems licensing rears its ugly head more often than not for this particular series. At the time, it had a monstrous amount of characters, and for perspective, Capcom was much more well known and respected in the video game space, and Marvel was selling its movie licenses to avoid going out of business. My, how things are different today…
They made no allusions to either balancing it or making sure all the art was up to date, but the community loved it. I remember buying the game multiple times and LOTS of unlocking. I don’t know if it was because it was rarer or in demand, but I often found myself longingly staring at copies on shelves that were $10 more than other games at the time(making it $60? 50?). The tone was all over the place, the music strange, but I think we all found it endearing, or like most things in fighting games, you come to love it or it all just becomes white noise in the background.
MVC3
Of all the games I missed due to being at college, this was one of the ones that hurt the most. Ultimately considering the type of fighting game player I became, I may not have been any good at this anime fighter, but when has that ever stopped me? There isn’t much I can say to really add to the conversation that hasn’t been said before, but I’ll try my best. Capcom, hot off of SFIV’s success, decided to hit the iron while it was hot, and added a new entry to a game that had never left EVO – MVC2. According to Capcom, this game didn’t succeed financially, which surprised me most of all with how much attention it garnered. I don’t know if this was a Squeenix/Tomb Raider situation, but regardless, I guess hype and (stream)popularity doesn’t equal sales. I do think there are some factors we can look at, and most people will have to draw their own conclusions on them with what we know, as(much like the recent PT C&R show) we may never know the full story. Marvel was clearly more powerful and in better bargaining shape than in MVC2 days. Having 2 DLC characters then releasing a new version very shortly later is probably going to negatively effect sales and confuse people. Granted, as Capcom customers, they should be used to it, but still. Supposedly, the Marvel license was up, which led to the period of quiet followed by UMVC3. I imagine they were planning on implanting the UMVC stuff(characters, modes like heralds, balance changes) through DLC or what have you, but if we go with the narrative the license was going to expire – it makes sense to wrap everything up in a nice neat package; hence ultimate. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen something like this; see Skullgirls.
It is also worth noting in the discussion of sales and such that Japan considers these types of games ‘trash’ games and they don’t do too well over there. We’ve seen in the past how Japan can emphasize success in its home-turf, but I can only imagine that was accounted for initially. The game underperformed, Niitsuma, the director was shifted away from fighting games - In japan, this is what they do instead of firing people. I don’t entirely think he’s to blame for the above-mentioned reasons.
While its hard to say whether this successor fulfilled the shoes of the previous game, I would say clearly through sheer hype and popularity(twitch streams, viewing numbers, etc.) it did its job. Almost as if mirroring the last game, there were HUGE balance issues. It also followed the new tradition of Zero being absolutely overpowered. Though there was an initial outcry in going from vanilla to Ultimate, I think it was for the better. Personally, I would like to have seen certain characters I liked given a fairer chance, but as we have learned more recently, developers intentionally unbalance their games(SFIV, later Tekkens), and much like with the predecessor, people discover new things all the time, like the Japanese player (Kusoru?) coming to the US, bodying everyone with characters that were deemed unplayable and never coming back, so maybe it is just on me to go plus ultra here? It lived for a very very long time, and really, is still alive as its MVC2. But the nail in the coffin may have sadly enough have been MVCI.
MVCI
The nicest thing I can say about MVCI is it shouldn’t have existed, and by virtue of it existing, it’s a miracle. That and the fact it isn’t named MVC4. We saw a bit a strange period where a ported version of UMVC3 came to steam and other platforms, so its possible other things could’ve also been coming. One of those things happened to be MVCI. Hindsight is 20-20 of course, but it was missing so much that made the previous games great(a big one being mutant presence). Now there are deniers out there, but hopefully now that we’ve seen Marvel buy Fox’s movie studios, the whole argument can be laid to rest:
Marvel was attempting to suppress Fox’s characters’ presences(mutants, F4) in their entire property-set, from comics to movies and everything in between. I don’t know how anyone can argue this isn’t true when it’s a noted fact with testimonials and pretty much saying the same.
In fact, Marvel(unsuccessfully) tried to replace mutants with inhumans. Although Scott Buck did Iron Fist a great disservice(and apparently Dexter, too), him being on Inhumans with it being shifted from a movie to a tv show was telling even before release. And I gotta say, Marvel, if you want to pick a group to ‘replace’ the X-men, it probably shouldn’t be one with 2 separate characters named Medusa and Gorgon in the same immediate group. Also doesn’t help the best inhuman was introduced organically, cultivated specifically by a creator with the background of the character: Kamala Khan. Just look at Miles Morales and his ascension. But regardless, the roster for the game is strange(and frankly, bad): As far as I can tell, they removed all the interesting and unique designs from 3(let’s put aside the whole ‘mutant’ thing for now) and kept the white, human males. If not that, characters that are easily ported from 3. We even have MODOK being in the story mode but NOT being playable, just to add salt to the wound(he was playable previously in 3. From a pragmatic standpoint, these were probably easiest to work with and rez-up.)
On the topic of roster, I can’t claim to be anyone special, but as someone who majorly missed MVC3 because I was in college, I was all fired up for Infinite, and produced a 2 part character poll that I tried to plaster everywhere that would allow it:
[youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fj-_TF ... e=youtu.be[/youtube]
(I think I had 2 videos, but I only seem to have one, but anyway, doesn’t freakin’ matter anymore)
Marvel
DLC - Black Panther(#7 on my list)
DLC - Black Widow (#17 on my list)
Captain America
Captain Marvel
Dr. Strange (#14 on my list)
Dormammu (#11 on my list)
Gamora (#21 on my list)
Ghost Rider(#10 on my list)
Hawkeye (#17 on my list)
Hulk (#15 on my list)
Iron Man
Nova (#14 on my list)
Rocket Raccoon (#17 on my list)
Spider-man (#4 on my list)
Thanos (#12 on my list)
Thor (#17 on my list)
Ultron(#12 in my list)
DLC - Venom(#1 on my list)
DLC - Winter Solider (#19 on my list)
Capcom
Arthur (#22 on my list)
Chris Redfield (#21 on my list)
Chun-Li (#18 on my list)
Dante(#2 on my list)
Firebrand (#23 on my list, Dead Last)
Frank West (#11 on my list)
Jedah (#11 on my list)
Haggar (#21 on my list)
DLC - Monster Hunter(#9 on my list)
Morrigan
Spencer (#20 on my list)
Nemesis (#18 on my list)
Ryu
DLC - Sigma (#17 on my list)
Strider (#13 on my list)
X (#13 on my list)
Zero(#9 on my list)
I’m fairly sure the trailer launched with Captain Marvel Iron man Ryu and X, so it makes sense people weren’t voting for those. People either expected or were tired of seeing the likes of Morrigan – I want to say she’s been in more versus and crossover games than her own native darkstalkers at this point.
But before we go any deeper, anyone who’s taken a statistics class knows about sample sizes, and I totally acknowledge that. That being said, I think we can glean something from this data still. Looking at how votes went, with DLC, I think Capcom would’ve garnered some favor in having these heavy hitters like Venom/Monster Hunter Rep/Black Panther not as DLC – they all ranked very highly. And to be completely fair, of the roster we got, people did ask for these characters. Votes dropped off majorly after the teens, however. So its no wonder I, among many others were disappointed higher ranked characters weren’t let through: Cyclops, Gambit, Dr. Doom, Daredevil, Deadpool, Star-Lord, Moon Knight, Storm, Wolverine, Cable, The Punisher, Magneto, Carnage make up the Marvel top 10(Modified top 10 on the basis we won’t be seeing Mutants/F4 – Daredevil, Star-lord, Moon Knight, The Punisher, Carnage, Ms. Marvel, Iron Fist, Vision, Loki, Shuma-Gorath). So if we go with the mutant-infested list, I see plenty of solid names, and series vets. Many of these characters have been popular, in movies, boom. Even then - I see plenty of names there I could get excited about playing, and that weren’t mutants/F4. On top of that, many of these characters at the time were relevant and popular. Netflix marvel(which may have been another corporate fight between Marvel and Netflix, but lets move on) was primed to be in this. If we can’t have mutants, did we get the best inhuman, Kamala Khan? No? Okay. I’d say of that bunch, taking out Shuma-Gorath, you’d have some pretty solid picks. Strange decisions were made.
Capcom’s top 10 from my rankings: Asura, Captain Commando, Phoenix Wright, Gene, Leon, Jin, Akuma, Nero, Amingo, and Cammy. On the Capcom side, they seem to REALLY like Chris Redfield as their Rezzi rep. Even after listening to the C&R podcasts, I don’t know why, but its continuing into Rezzie 8. As I guessed, Leon would’ve made much more sense according to my rankings. Jedah was definitely a surprise with Niitsuma, the previous game’s director stating certain characters like him take too much effort to animate. Again, we see some odd exclusions here on the Capcom side for some of their lesser-ranked characters. While I don’t think Cammy needs to be in this game, that’s what people are looking for. With Amingo, we see another sore spot – not only is he a vet, he’s a MVC original character. He can’t be seen ANYWHERE else. Many of these seem like slam dunks – Nero, Asura, Akuma…but we have none of these. Akuma in particular was always present in previous crossovers. So even if we say Marvel was ruining the game and being dictorial about their picks, Capcom’s picks aren’t up to snuff either – absolutely puzzling.
The biggest reason I’ve never touched this game(actually I did over a friend’s house once, but you know what I mean) was that they disrespected the fans and FGC with statements like ‘they’re(characters are) just functions’ and ‘no one remembers the x-men’. There are people who’re much more prolific and smarter than me who’s videos you can check out on this topic, but I can’t support Capcom’s fighting games with stuff like that being said. And why should I with the wealth of fighting games that respect their players like SamSho out there? You don’t get to say that when it isn’t true. On top of that, various community members held up the game on a pedestal, I even remember I think it was Maximillian d00d saying Capcom was back to their (90s?) Cap-God status. Looking back, clearly MVCI wasn’t a success, and it didn’t get to to be on stage at EVO.
Additionally, I found the community was trying to censor Capcom criticism. Really hurt to see places I thought I trusted show their true colors:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments ... s_the_mvc/
And if that wasn’t enough, a new challenger approached: Dragon Ball Fighterz. Whereas MVCI was this strange game that skimped on presentation, made needless changes, chased Esports to a fault, and insulted its community – DBFZ showed up on the scene, much like Goku would – ready to fight. DBFZ had great presentation, garnered hype, respected its licenses and characters, and most importantly DBFZ delivered.
I think this just goes to show what complacency does in modern gaming – we saw it with Fortnite pivoting and taking PUBG’s crown, and majorly, it seems like companies like SNK, Bamco, Nintendo, Netherrealm are all in on fighting games and pushing the envelope on them while Capcom has retreated from their throne.
Sadly, the tale doesn’t end there – there will be those who say they enjoy MVCI and that it’s a good game. But much like SFxT before it, it’s far too little, far too damn late. Even initial claims like character variety being thinned for more interesting, balanced gameplay didn’t pan out with spider-man + (space?) stone being broken on day 1.
Much like SFV, which is around the same time of release and, hypothetically, the same ethos of release, the graphical style leaves something to be desired – so much so the PREVIOUS game looks better. There are modders for both this game and SFV that have made it look better. Its….unthinkable and inexcusable. I guess it just goes to show how much an aesthetic can do for a game in the end.
MVCI, like MVC3 before it, had bad sales – I sort of went over this already, but its important to note. The person majorly in charge of this product was Ono. And much like Niitsuma before him, he was demoted and put in charge of ESPORTS. Unsurprisingly, with MVCI failing(half of their esports efforts), it wasn’t looked upon favorably. Ono has recently left Capcom(again, Japanese companies don’t fire people, but put you in a position where you want to quit), and the rumors say he was hard to work under, and that his work on street fighter VI involving some sort of team focused technique wasn’t panning out. This does give some hope in that with people not enjoy SFV and MVCI, some new blood can maybe take the reins – some are calling for Itsuno(Devil May Cry), or for the Monster Hunter World director to really step up here.
Lastly, I’d like to go back to the fact that this game shouldn’t’ve existed – but it was up to Capcom to convince Marvel they needed mutants for this to work, or refuse the contract/deal. They knew they would have to answer the question eventually, and Marvel was all too happy to watch Capcom put their foot in their mouth time and again on this.
But I don’t think it was an entirely bad experience for some, at least, Combofiend who was previously working for Capcom, was able to somehow transition to Marvel. I can’t explain that, but get your hustle on.
Bonus: Infinite started to refer to the infinity gems as stones, which the films did afterwards.