ARMS

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Michiel K
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Re: ARMS

Post by Michiel K »

I'm new to the game and collecting my thoughts about it, but I think what the Kotaku article fails to consider is that outside of character tied offensive and defensive options, so much of what makes the game is its mobility / movement options. Much more than traditional 2D or 3D fighters, you can freely traverse the arena, picking your angles and distances.

It's much more like a Virtual-On game and the possibility space is much greater than punch, block, grab if you approach the game that way.
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Sinclair Gregstrum
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Re: ARMS

Post by Sinclair Gregstrum »

I've not bought or played ARMS, so can't comment on it as a game, but as a Switch owner I can say why I've not bought and by extension why others may not have. For me it boils down essentially to two things - it looks shallow and it looks multiplayer focussed.

In terms of the perceived lack the depth, they never managed to get beyond it looking like a gimmick rather than a fully fleshed out experience. Something you'd have a bit of fun with then put down after a few hours of messing about. I'm not saying that's a fair assessment of the game, but that's the impression from the marketing, and when they're asking full price it doesn't feel like it's going to represent great value. It also really felt like a throwback to the Wii era, with shades of a prettier Wii Sports boxing. Not a fair comparison I'm sure, but one I heard made more than once.

On the multiplayer front, there was a pretty heavy emphasis on this throughout it's marketing push, and while millions of people love multiplayer gaming, millions don't do it at all. Now obviously multiplayer focussed titles can be huge these days, but in ARMS’ case by focussing on that you're limiting yourself to just a percentage of what is a small early adopter user base, meaning the pure volume of people interested in your game will inevitably be low. Further still it seemed like a game best enjoyed by having people in the same room and even less people do that these days, so in the end it felt like a game whose best possible experience was limited to a pretty niche market.

Oh and I believe there were a couple of games called Zelda and Mario Kart knocking about that a few people might have bought instead maybe… :roll:
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Sinclair Gregstrum
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Re: ARMS

Post by Sinclair Gregstrum »

Michiel K wrote: August 3rd, 2017, 4:48 pmIt's much more like a Virtual-On game and the possibility space is much greater than punch, block, grab if you approach the game that way.
You see if someone had sold it to me as like Virtual-On I'd be right there with you Michiel! But then I have just criticised them for making it feel too niche an experience, and Virtual-On is about as niche as it gets :lol:
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Stanshall
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Re: ARMS

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Michiel K wrote: August 3rd, 2017, 4:48 pm It's much more like a Virtual-On game and the possibility space is much greater than punch, block, grab if you approach the game that way.
The 'free' movement is definitely a significant factor (and moving constantly is pretty much essential) but the fact that you're permanently soft-locked onto the other player means that you're not really free at all, you have about two sidesteps worth of room on either side, not much different from Tekken, in my opinion. I don't think I'd want totally free movement, mind you, because I think it would become something more like Dark Souls PVP (which is actually really limited). I just wish I had rushdown options, basically, or the ability to genuinely fight over different distances. As it is, close combat is just asking to be grabbed.

Sinclair, interesting thoughts. I'd say that the local multiplayer really is the most fun way to play, with motion controls, even if they're aiming at a pretty niche audience. It definitely harks back to the Wii days and feels very familiar in that sense. People didn't flinch about putting on the silly wrist straps, etc. It's a much more enjoyable game in general though with a controller (in my opinion) and the basics of moving around are much more precise, responsive and reliable; it's a no brainer for me, and yet that seems to go against all of their marketing...
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Michiel K
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Re: ARMS

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Stanshall wrote: August 3rd, 2017, 5:30 pm The 'free' movement is definitely a significant factor (and moving constantly is pretty much essential) but the fact that you're permanently soft-locked onto the other player means that you're not really free at all, you have about two sidesteps worth of room on either side, not much different from Tekken, in my opinion. I don't think I'd want totally free movement, mind you, because I think it would become something more like Dark Souls PVP (which is actually really limited). I just wish I had rushdown options, basically, or the ability to genuinely fight over different distances. As it is, close combat is just asking to be grabbed.
Good points. The soft locking part is true, but you're still able to move in any direction (essential to what effectively boils down to ranged combat) and the larger arenas definitely give you room for more than two side steps, don't they? I feel that the movement options you have are all about the approach and evasive manoeuvers, which keeps things focused despite the freedom to stand where you want in the arena.

I like the idea of adding a risky, but very powerful high-damage close distance attack, similar to what's there in Senko no Ronde or Virtual-On! That might go some way to make the combat more multi-dimensional.

I haven't sunk in too deep, so I'll defer anyway. :)

My new favourite character is Mechanica, with a Kablammer and Homie combination. Became damn near unbeatable in our local mp sessions.
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Stanshall
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Re: ARMS

Post by Stanshall »

You're absolutely right about the arenas, and I hadn't really considered that side of things. Even if you can't dash out of your opponent's line of sight, you can certainly manipulate the environment to your benefit which is another element you don't really find in conventional fighters. The new Max Brass stage is a great one for that. It's superficially very simple but taking command of the raised platform is such an important part of any fight there. You'll really struggle to dominate from the edges. Mark me down also as someone who really enjoys Snake Park!

And yeah, Mechanica was my main early on, almost exclusively because of that glorious hammer. I just love the trajectory of it, the way it arcs upwards quite late and then crashes down. It's so satisfying to land it.

Hopefully see you out there on the arena!
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Re: ARMS

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I know I’ve not gone back to it at all since I got Splatoon 2.
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seansthomas
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Re: ARMS

Post by seansthomas »

Agree with most of your post Stanshall. Tough to get into, then clicked for me, then it felt slow and I moved on.

Have come back this past week however as Splatoon 2, whilst great at home, is almost entirely useless when in a train with no signal. So I've dipped back into Ranked. Struggling on Level 5 still but the one player mode of ARMS is really good. I enjoy the minigames too.

I'm not much of a brawler. Always button mashed Smash, SF2 etc but even I can tell throws in this game need restricting. I can often beat players online who rely on them but they are too dominant for me. Andy Hamilton on Midnight Resistance is a huge fighting fan and he swears this is an insanely well balanced game for hardcore fighting fans.

Also the amount of work you have to put in to then maybe unlock one set of ARMS for just one of the characters is a pain. Shame you can't unlock them for all at once.

Overall I really like it and it has enormous charm. But I can see myself forgetting to play it once I own more than 3 games.
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Michiel K
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Re: ARMS

Post by Michiel K »

Stanshall wrote: August 3rd, 2017, 10:01 pm You're absolutely right about the arenas, and I hadn't really considered that side of things. Even if you can't dash out of your opponent's line of sight, you can certainly manipulate the environment to your benefit which is another element you don't really find in conventional fighters. The new Max Brass stage is a great one for that. It's superficially very simple but taking command of the raised platform is such an important part of any fight there. You'll really struggle to dominate from the edges. Mark me down also as someone who really enjoys Snake Park!

And yeah, Mechanica was my main early on, almost exclusively because of that glorious hammer. I just love the trajectory of it, the way it arcs upwards quite late and then crashes down. It's so satisfying to land it.

Hopefully see you out there on the arena!
Yeah, the hammer is great active defense as well and I don't know exactly what the homing missile arm was doing, but it was giving my opponents lots of grief, so that works out well. :D

Of the ARMS players we have here I'm only friends with Suits, I believe. I'll have a look in the community forum and see if I can add you and whoever else is playing this.
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Michiel K
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Re: ARMS

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Sinclair Gregstrum wrote: August 3rd, 2017, 4:53 pm You see if someone had sold it to me as like Virtual-On I'd be right there with you Michiel! But then I have just criticised them for making it feel too niche an experience, and Virtual-On is about as niche as it gets :lol:
LOL, I don't care is something is niche or not, I just care if I like it. And incidentally I seem to like a lot of things people often call niche. :lol:
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Stanshall
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Re: ARMS

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I thought this was worth a bump in light of some pretty hefty updates.

Most significant is the new Party Crash event which has just finished. It's basically Splatfest, and exactly what the game has needed in my opinion. It lasted about three days but within that, there was constant rotation and variety. In fact, the modifiers changed every fifteen minutes. Probably most enjoyable for me were the Lab Selects fights, where you are assigned a random combination of arms every round. It really helped shake things up and got you figuring things out on the fly. I used some stuff I'd never unlocked and therefore never used before, and which were really good fun. There were also rotating bonuses for using certain characters and specific arms and you steadily ranked up over the course of the event, putting you against players of a more suitable level. I've also just seen that since it's finished I've received a load of rewards and badges (more in a sec) and credits to unlock more arms. This is just what the game needed to shake things up and encourage variety. I'm as guilty as anyone of getting stuck with one regular combination and character.

Which brings me neatly...One of my major criticisms of the game was that grinding for credits was too slow and worked against the thing which gives the game depth and variety - the ARMS! Sure enough, they've brought in badges, which work kind of like achievements, and which give a steady stream of good rewards. If you've put any time into it at all, you'll likely log in to find you've got a handful of badges and several hundred credits, even without any involvement in the Party Crash. That would have taken hours and hours to achieve previously. It meant that I went from four or five arms per character, at most, to perhaps a dozen each, very quickly.

They've also added two more new characters and stages, with some pretty cool arms. Lola Pop came in with update 3.0, a kind of candy clown with a cool inflate and bounce mechanic. I don't know if it's a good tactic but I'm constantly bouncing around just because it's fun and slightly hard to read. It just feels good, feels Nintendo. She's also got some fun arms, especially the spiralling Funchuks. I seem to always get some chip damage or bonus hits every time I fling them out. The recent update 4.0 added Misango, a Mayan-type character who uses scorpions and poison and other such unusual tools. I've not played with him much but he's a fun addition, fits the tone but also takes it into a new area.

I think this is a much-maligned and misunderstood game (and by me!), partly due to the cognitive dissonance of its Pixar-esque presentation vs. its slower-paced tactical gameplay, but I really really love what it does at its best, and there isn't a game quite like it when you get into the rhythm.
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Re: ARMS

Post by seansthomas »

Stanshall wrote: November 25th, 2017, 7:24 am I thought this was worth a bump in light of some pretty hefty updates.

Most significant is the new Party Crash event which has just finished. It's basically Splatfest, and exactly what the game has needed in my opinion. It lasted about three days but within that, there was constant rotation and variety. In fact, the modifiers changed every fifteen minutes. Probably most enjoyable for me were the Lab Selects fights, where you are assigned a random combination of arms every round. It really helped shake things up and got you figuring things out on the fly. I used some stuff I'd never unlocked and therefore never used before, and which were really good fun. There were also rotating bonuses for using certain characters and specific arms and you steadily ranked up over the course of the event, putting you against players of a more suitable level. I've also just seen that since it's finished I've received a load of rewards and badges (more in a sec) and credits to unlock more arms. This is just what the game needed to shake things up and encourage variety. I'm as guilty as anyone of getting stuck with one regular combination and character.

Which brings me neatly...One of my major criticisms of the game was that grinding for credits was too slow and worked against the thing which gives the game depth and variety - the ARMS! Sure enough, they've brought in badges, which work kind of like achievements, and which give a steady stream of good rewards. If you've put any time into it at all, you'll likely log in to find you've got a handful of badges and several hundred credits, even without any involvement in the Party Crash. That would have taken hours and hours to achieve previously. It meant that I went from four or five arms per character, at most, to perhaps a dozen each, very quickly.

They've also added two more new characters and stages, with some pretty cool arms. Lola Pop came in with update 3.0, a kind of candy clown with a cool inflate and bounce mechanic. I don't know if it's a good tactic but I'm constantly bouncing around just because it's fun and slightly hard to read. It just feels good, feels Nintendo. She's also got some fun arms, especially the spiralling Funchuks. I seem to always get some chip damage or bonus hits every time I fling them out. The recent update 4.0 added Misango, a Mayan-type character who uses scorpions and poison and other such unusual tools. I've not played with him much but he's a fun addition, fits the tone but also takes it into a new area.

I think this is a much-maligned and misunderstood game (and by me!), partly due to the cognitive dissonance of its Pixar-esque presentation vs. its slower-paced tactical gameplay, but I really really love what it does at its best, and there isn't a game quite like it when you get into the rhythm.
I played a bit of Party Crash too and had some good fun. There's been some great updates to the game since it launched. Very different entity now.

ARMS is a gorgeous looking game, full of charm I think. Hope some of the characters make it into Smash! I don't remotely feel like I've figured out top level strategies within it or even got to decent tactics using differing ARMS combinations, but I like occasionally coming back to it for a swift game. Good fun on a commute too.
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Michiel K
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Re: ARMS

Post by Michiel K »

If only I had more time to put into it. Thanks for your updated take on the game, Stanshall.
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Re: ARMS

Post by Feirsteax »

i'm gonna put more time into this game for sure
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Stanshall
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Re: ARMS

Post by Stanshall »

Quick heads up that Party Crash is on, folks. Friday to Sunday, I believe. Lola Pop vs. Misango. Putting a shift in here and ranking up rapidly. It's so blooming generous with those badges and credits.
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Re: ARMS

Post by DomsBeard »

Picked this up the other day and have no idea what I'm doing :lol:
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Stanshall
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Re: ARMS

Post by Stanshall »

Nice one, great to hear it. If I can give a couple of unrequested tips...

This weekend's Party Crash is probably the best way to get into it. You'll end up with loads of credits to unlock a load more arms, which will give you a load more options. It's a chaotic roundabout and you'll see the game at its most varied. There's no punishment for losing, you'll just continue to rank up, anyway. Once the event finishes, you'll get more credits based on the rank you reached.

My general advice would be to start with Springman or Ribbon Girl, they're pretty mobile, no gimmicks or glaring weaknesses, but given that it's Party Crash time, you'll get bonus credits this weekend playing as Lola Pop or Misango. I don't know Misango at all yet, he's pretty technical with the masks offering different boosts, but Lola Pop is great fun. If you jump and hold dash, she will inflate and bounce back to the ground (twice if you keep it held) which is a good way to mix up your movements. It also just feels great, like, Nintendo great. She's a fun one to play with, cool goofy design and default arms are also all pretty interesting. The Clapback shield is a brilliant idea, even if I struggle to use it offensively (you hit punch to throw out the shield as defence, and then punch again to shoot it towards your opponent - if you time it right you can punch their arms back at them!).

If I could give you one tip to get into it, though, it's dash dash dash. There's a lot of depth and variety, depending on which arms you're using so most tips are quite specific but staying mobile is important with everyone. I'd also say don't throw both punches out unless you're really putting the pressure on and reading your opponent pretty well, it will make you vulnerable. I tend to have a bit of joy playing with one defensive arm to punch through grab attempts or deflect incoming punches and one attacking arm which I'm constantly trying to curve in different directions and keep them guessing. Once you get a bit of a read on your opponent, you can throw in that defensive arm to catch them dodging predictably.

Sorry, I'm waffling now. I just bloody love ARMS and feel like it's in better shape than ever. I've seen quite a few folks who picked it up over Chrimbo.
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Re: ARMS

Post by DomsBeard »

Well I have not really played anything else on Switch for the last couple of days. I have been playing as and decided to main Twintelle. The Party Crash has been a great way in so thanks for recommending it.
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Re: ARMS

Post by Stanshall »

Really pleased to hear you've enjoyed it. I've probably played more of this Party Crash than any other and got past rank 35 at some point this afternoon. Been feeling a bit rough, mind you, or I'd be on it tonight, too! Jon Denton was saying the other week how it's perhaps the closest fighting game to actual fighting and I totally understand what he means. I'm certainly not one for a punch up but I got into kung fu a few years back and the focus on mind games, reading, predicting and pressuring definitely reminds me of sparring sessions.

Twintelle is great, too, and I use the Thunderbird for pretty much any character I play. It's got such a versatile and unpredictable range of trajectory. I love pairing it with her parasol. She's quality. See you out there!
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