Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

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JaySevenZero
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Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

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Here's where you can leave your thoughts regarding Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner for possible inclusion in the podcast when it's recorded.
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KSubzero1000
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Re: 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by KSubzero1000 »

I find it difficult to think of another sequel which manages to blow its predecessor out of the water to the same degree that Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner does. Whereas the original suffers from its simplistic premise and underdeveloped nature, the second entry is a clear improvement in every conceivable way.

First and foremost, this game thankfully adopts a much more linear and handcrafted structure which allows for a significantly better sense of pacing. Although the core mechanics are rather simple, the overall experience remains fresh and varied over the course of the story mode. Periods of downtime are carefully situated in-between substantial gameplay portions and the various elements rarely overstay their welcome. The aerial battles / Aumaan Crevasse segment alone is a remarkably ambitious piece of game design.

Combat is significantly more polished this time around. It isn't on the level of a character action classic, but it comes surprisingly close at times. The animations are also fantastic, although I think it would be nice if they provided a more distinct sense of weight. And it bears repeating just how good the readability is. I don't think I've ever lost my sense of orientation at any point during my recent playthrough, which is a testament to how polished the controls actually are. The only (minor) complaint I have is that the automatic lock-on can be a bit too aggressive at times.

The bosses are yet again the stars of the show, and the majority of them are brimming with creativity and brilliant attention to detail. The Nephtis fights are made to teach the use of certain mechanics, the second Ardjet and Inhert fights force the player to fundamentally rethink their course of action, and Vic Viper, Zakat and Anubis are conventional, but decidedly grin-inducing spectacular duels. Every single boss has its place and the sense of escalation gained by fighting them over the course of the game is something that very few other games can match.

The numerous anime cutscenes aren't my favorite stylistic choice, but considering the uncanny valley effect that plagues a lot of other early sixth generation games (including its own predecessor), then this was probably a very reasonable compromise to make. On a more positive note, I find the in-engine cutscenes to be very well directed and I definitely notice a lot of the MGS2 DNA in their cinematography. Jehuty remains one of the most visually memorable characters in the medium and the menacing Anubis isn't far behind.

It's unfortunate that the series hasn't received another entry since this game's release fifteen years ago. As short-lived as it may have been, at least The 2nd Runner was successful at carving its own niche and providing a very specific and satisfying experience that no other game since then has been able to replicate. I certainly look forward to replaying this wacky sci-fi mecha action classic in a few years.


Three Word Review: Long Live Jehuty!
Todinho

Re: 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by Todinho »

My first exposure to the 2nd runner was the great trailer, that also served as the intro to the game, edited by Hideo Kojima, a trailer that I classify as better then the first game in its entirety, in fact I challenge anyone to watch the trailer and not get hyped to play the game:


After watching that as a teenager I was pretty psyched to play the game to say the least, the game itself though begins in a bit of an odd way though, you start in a slow mining mech as you`re introduced to the world and the new main character, I love this opening because it does a great job estabilishing a contrast between what a regular mech is like and Jehuty so when the action does start the high speed air combat feels that much more satisfying.

Speaking of which, this is the game that truly the deserves the title of High Speed Robot Action, they took the solid foundation of the first game and expanded upon and one of the ways they did was crancking up the speed that coupled with the great controls makes for an incredibly fluid and responsive combat system. This is further improved by the sub weapons that are now really usefull for the most part and alot of other ajustments like how you can lock on to multiple enemies far away and blast them with a lasers. The combat here isnt so complex as something like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta but it can often feel as gratigying as you dash around the air from enemy to enemy without getting hit a single time, this type of combat was never replicated in any other game since which makes the 2nd runner a especially unique game in the pantheon of action games.

The game's structure also suffered an overall being now a linear game which works great because while the first game was mostly dull with the same missions over and over again, the sequel sidesteps that by having great pacing and changing things up with every stage. Not only that but the game has great number of set pieces that are the highlight of the game such as the train level, the fleet battle with the Vector Cannon, the great battle at the ravine, the momment you first unlock Zero shift, you name it. The boss battle are another highlight and once again they are much better then the ones in the first game, mostly focusing on humanoid robots your size leading to some great looking and fun battles especially the one with Anubis once you both get Zero shift.

The writing is perhaps the aspect of the game that improved the least, you have a pretty generic villain, some anime sterotypes and a world that isnt very well fleshed out. Its still leaps and bounds above anything in the first game and the story does its job for an over the top action game but its certainly not up to par especially if you're expecting something anywhere near the level of a metal gear game.
One aspect I really enjoyed was the protagonist, I really liked the jaded former soldier Dingo and I really liked the concept of him being kept alive by Jehuty and being unable to leave it, Its a premise I'ver seen before or since in the mecha genre and while I wish they had done more with it it was one of the best aspects of the story.

Lastly especial recognition must be paid to Shuyo Murata, ZOE 2 was his baby the game wouldnt have happened without him and he was the main designer, director and writer on it. He took a dull first game as a foundation and created one of the best action of the PS2 generation and in my opinion one of the best action games ever made. So its a bit of a shame that this gets lumped into as a "Kojima game" by fans and Murata does get the credit he deserves.
It is a fact though that without Kojima,Shinkawa and much of the old Kojima Productions in Konami anymore we are unlikely to ever see a sequel to this game and honestly even if they tried I doubt they'd have the talent to do it well, but the launch of the new Remaster with VR at least suggests there's some interest in the series left in the company so who knows. Regardless of what the future holds Zone of the Enders the 2nd runner remains one of the best games I ever played and one I think everyone should try and experience especially if you're a mecha fan.
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by rwgibbons »

Sadly, I've never played any Zone of the Enders games. But when I heard Leon say Cane and Rinse would be covering the 2nd Runner, I thought he meant Runner 2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien, which is a great game in its own right. Hopefully you can make time for that game (or series, as there are three now) somewhere down the line. :)
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by ratsoalbion »

I like Runner 2, not sure I’ll ever manage to complete it though.

Darren is currently playing Runner 3.

We covered the original BIT.TRIP: RUNNER in podcast issue 27: https://caneandrinse.com/bit-trip/
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by Simonsloth »

Sometimes I wish I didn’t revisit old favourites as my memories of this game have now been tarnished. This year i have clearly mislaid my rose tinted spectacles as many of the games I held dear have suffered and been left with their previous revered status besmirched. Leon would refer to them as Sacred Cows and this year it appears to be culling season.

I had always considered 2nd runner as a peerless space opera blessed with the finest robotic ballet action. It had in my opinion blown it’s predecessor out of the water in every facet and was no longer the “demo” which came with the Metal Gear Solid 2 Tanker game.

Playing it more recently it seems clunky, repetitive and the melodramatic story feels more mediocre Saturday morning 90s cartoon than the Akira matching anime masterclass I had remembered it as.

Certain scenes I remembered fondly like the dynasty warriors style open battlefield or the “against the odds” fight with the fleet of gigantic battleships just weren’t nearly as impressive. In fact they were a little bit boring.

Probably the biggest criticism I have is that I actually missed Leo and his relationship with Jehuty as I cared so little for Dingo and the other protagonists. The simpler story of the original actually carried more weight on this recent retrospective, which considering how critical I was of it on the previous podcast reflects quite poorly on the sequel.

It’s not rocket science to see that it is still much better than it’s predecessor but the gulf in class seems less stark this time around. I think I’m perhaps being a bit harsh as some of these aspects are reflective of the era it was released in.

Ultimately of the multitude of games I’ve replayed this year this one has had the most pronounced fall from grace.
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by AlexMaskill »

As the second-best Zone of the Enders game - behind the fascinatingly committed strategy RPG/visual novel Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars, which I could talk about for so long that it would legally become a crime - The Second Runner feels to me like both a real step forward from the first game and a missed opportunity in terms of what it could have been. The art style looks lovely (I'm a sucker for that early 00's Kojima game aesthetic) and the action is generally vastly improved - faster and flashier, with more expressive combat options and a more focused corridor-based layout that allows for more structured missions - but much of this game is far blander that I remembered it being.

The story and worldbuilding in particular are incredibly limited, in a way that really cripples my enjoyment of the game. It's based around a tiny, under-realised view of the fairly expansive Zone of the Enders universe, such that I don't really feel like I have a sense of the conflict I'm being asked to participate in or why I should be invested in it. The Fist of Mars gets a rich, involved story reminiscent of a great mecha anime series out of the consolidation of BAHRAM forces under Nohman's control that gets mentioned in passing here, and even the first game gains some stakes from hitting the protagonist where they live. This game, which deals in the collapse of BAHRAM, a military force that managed to seize control of an entire planet, by its prodigal son, derives almost no real drama or mythology from that premise! This isn't just a matter of them not telling a bigger story, it's a matter of them not making the most of the story they've got - it feels flat and disconnected, without ever establishing real stakes or making us understand and sympathise with the characters' desires.

The lacking presentation leaves me less willing to forgive its other issues that didn't bother me quite so much in the first game. For one, the missions are rarely interesting in themselves, offering busywork as an excuse for more of the moment-to-moment gameplay without prompting any enjoyment directly. And while the combat is good - and much improved - it's not that good, not good enough to carry the whole game on its own. I found that fights frequently became repetitive in the moment-to-moment steps, requiring a few too many repetitions of the One Correct Thing To Do In This Scenario to feel rewarding or maintain forward momentum, and that in contexts where the systems were stretched too far beyond their usual territory, they became cumbersome and annoying (during the train chase sequence I died far more as a result of the camera than any choices I was making).

The environments here are also often quite dull - wastelands and featureless, implausible military installations where the first game had a futuristic space colony that always intrigued me in its details. For all it's failings, the first game has a sense of place and a vision of the future that exists beyond, yet works with, the mecha - the second game doesn't seem to have that, and to me it reduces this game to being a better version of the first game's combat simulation and still a much blander experience as a whole.

By many measures it's a better-crafted game - tighter, much prettier, more mechanically refined and sophisticated - but the gestalt of the experience still leaves me far more disappointed than I expected.
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by Mr Ixolite »

Zone of the enders 2 boasts improvements on its predecessor pretty much across the board, and featured one of the most fun control schemes I’ve ever tried. A decade after playing it, my fingers still know how to dash under an enemys attack, dash up again and slash them, combo them a bit, break their guard, send them flying away, and then nail them with an energy ball. Either that or beating enemies around with giant girders or swinging them madly into their allies, which bot are immensely satisfying on a dumb, visceral level. The subweapons are also improved, especially the one that facilitate more grabbing of enemies, and thus more swinging them madly into their allies. And that’s all before you get the ability to teleport into their faces. Controlling Jehuty brings any DBZ game I’ve tried to shame.

The story is clichéd anime nonsense, and I cannot pretend I remember, or ever understood what Nohman and Aumann were all about. Something about destroying the solar system maybe? It didn’t matter, really. The first game felt like a prologue of a much bigger conflict, and this game is exactly that. And it makes for greater variety in missions and environments, which the first game badly needed, with the Skies of Vascillia mission being the clear standout for me. Destroying a fleet of warships singlehandedly with a nimble robot mech (and its ludicrous Super-Cannon) became pretty much the peak Power-Fantasy of my adolescence. The games atmosphere takes a hit due to this increased scale but I find the tradeoff more than fair, and at least the game still has a gloriously overblown theme song, which quickly found its way onto my Discman. The bluebird flies AWAYYYYYYYY~

I also have to give a shoutout to the games Versus mode, which turned into an unexpected time sink of two mechs constantly dashing around and attacking each other simultaneously, in what felt like an epic, cinematic dance of death. Of course, you first needed to play the main game to unlock the Mechs for your own use, and then learn to use them without the aid of any sort of move list. Some of them required the R3 button! How crazy is that? It made me feel like I was truly uncovering the secrets of these mechanical monstrosities. It also made me constantly search for new people to play against: I waited for them to pick Vic Viper, lose miserably, then pick Vic Viper myself so I could watch their reactions as I created 4 OPTIONS and launched a disorienting hailstorm of projectiles at them, while wearing the smuggest expression imaginable. Here I would like to commend my friend Jacob for his patience, as he was ultimately the only person I knew with an interest in high-speed anime robot fighting)

3 word review:
DASH! SLASH! SMASH!
Hevi_Metaru

Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by Hevi_Metaru »

Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner - Mostly High Speed Robot Action
Image
Version Played: PS3 ZOE HD Collection (JP)

Difficulty: Hard

Opening Thoughts

Wow, just wow. This game for me encapsulates the meaning of "game feel" within a game. You have so much control over your mech in ZOE2 and everything (most of the time) feels so fluid and any mistakes that you make are purely through your own lack of judgement. What a gorgeous looking game to boot as well! I only just finished the game 5 minutes after starting to write this review.

Story

This is very much a classic underdog story for me. A person who is extremely underpowered and weak is beaten down by a god-like figure and the weaker person eventually rises up to exceed and take down their suppressor.

The story is very much action-packed and your typical anime affair, filled with plenty of melodrama (that is not a negative by the way). The characters that Dingo meets long the way are all mostly important to the plot (aside from Earth Forces Commander Lady, who doesn't seem to do much in the game) and events come and go at a brisk pace.

The tension and stakes constantly ratchet up with the player eventually finding out that they have to destroy a space fortress capable of wrecking entire solar systems-scary stuff eh!

Including animations that seamlessly transitioned between the gameplay and the story was a great idea and really helped to flesh the characters out. The in-game animation dialogue where you could move the camera around to explore the inside of the cockpits was also a nice touch.

Overall, the story was great fun to play through and I felt encouraged to continue playing on.

Characters

Dingo is your typical wisecracking protagonist and along with Jehuty's upgrades, he himself also changes his personality throughout the story. He starts of as a happy-go-lucky kind of guy and becomes more and more serious as the plot continues towards its stunning conclusion. Seeing that the entire solar system is at stake, it's not a joking matter.

Jehuty - Jehuty's personality doesn't change much throughout the game. Like any computer she is calculating, but oddly warm at times and even pauses once or twice in her dialogue, as if thinking about the consequences of her decisions.

Ken - she is certainly Dingo's love interest in the story, but easily holds her own on the battlefield and even saves Dingo from near-death. She and Dingo grow more and more affectionate towards each other towards the game's end, which I personally absolutely love in any relationship story.

Nohman - now, this guy is what I think of as a villain: cold-hearted, ruthless and unstoppable. The way this guy guns down Dingo in the opening chapter without a second thought just put fear into me. It really encouraged me to have revenge on this guy for what he did to Dingo. His face is also clearly evil. Later on in the game, he slowly descends into madness from the power of the Metatron.

Viola - one of my favorite characters from the original game and the anime movie ZOE: Idolo. I'm glad she made an appearance in this game as an AI and I was very happy to fight her multiple times.

Leo - he comes back as a badass in this game and looking way cooler. Plus he flies the Vic Viper, so what's not to like!

Lloyd - certainly a creepy looking scientist, but he nicely upgrades your mech, so props to him.

Regarding voices of the characters, they were all appropriate I thought and none were too over the top or silly.

Mech Designs

I wanted a special section, where I talked just about the mech design. I'm quite literally blown away. I'm looking for some model statues of Jehuty and Anubis that I can place on my desk.

All of the mech designs in this game are so crisp and slick. They are clearly meant to be fast killing machines of death, not something slow and plodding like you'd find in a mechwarrior game. The contours of the mechs and how fluidly they glide around, swooping and diving into each other, is one of the things that got me sucked into this game so much.

Gameplay

Holy moly, now this is what I mentioned about "game feel" in my opening thoughts. The game gives you so much control over Jehuty and I found that the majority of the time, if I messed something up, I knew it was something that I did wrong.

The weapons at your disposal are: Jehuty's blade, homing lasers, sub-weapons, a grab, a plasma gun and a giant plasma ball. This doesn't sound like much, but it is the combination of using all of these together, which allow Jehuty to decimate her enemies with ease.

Slicing enemies was always satisfying and the feedback you receive from hitting enemies with your blade is just immense. I would always use this in combination with the grab attack. Grabbing an enemy with the "O" button and mashing the button to spin them around and destroy another enemy is so much fun.

I would 100% recommend playing this game on hard. Individual enemies weren't a problem, but once multiple enemy types swarm you, you have to use every single ability available to Jehuty to just make it out alive. The sub-weapons are absolutely essential in this regard and I was using mutiple sub-weapons. For instance, the "Wisp" sub-weapon allows you to grab an enemy from afar, spin them around you so you become temporarily invincible (also damaging nearby enemies when you spin them) and then you can again throw them at other enemies. Another sub-weapon which I also used constantly was "Gauntlet". This allowed you to break enemy shields and was essential for beating multiple bosses (Nephtis and the giant disco ball "Zakat" certainly come to mind). The "Homing Missiles" could also insta-kill two popcorn enemies at once.

My personal favourite weapon was the "Vector Cannon". During the storyline, you have to destroy these giant flying battleships (one of my most favourite moments playing the game) using the "Vector Cannon", whilst fending off smaller popcorn enemies and giant death lasers. This cannon is so cool when you charge it up and it feels amazing firing and releasing it.

Jehuty V2 was also a badass. It was a shame that there weren't more levels where you controlled her in that form!
One part of the game that I did not enjoy whatsoever was the stage where Ken is directing you around the invisible shields that damage you if you hit them. Sometimes I followed her directions precisely and I would still crash into the barriers and two hits and you're dead (on hard difficulty anyway). This is why I used "Mostly High Speed Robot Action" in the title of this review.

An additional frustration was the camera and targeting system. When I had to pick up Ken in her frame and drag her to safety, choosing between her and the rest of the enemies was very difficulty and the game simply didn't know which to prioritise sometimes. During the giant battle between the Earth and Mars forces, I also targeted the Earth LEVs multiple, which I didn't want or even need to do.

Bosses

Whilst one or two of the bosses were re-used, the amount of cool and creative bosses in this game is great. I had a blast fighting every single one (aside from Ardjet where her Frame is possessed by Viola and you have to tediously press the square button to block her blades and then grab her). I feel that Anubis does outstay his welcome sometimes, however I feel the reason that he appears so often is to remind the player how weak they are and that they are still no match for him and have a long way to go.

The final boss battle with Anubis inside Aumaan was quite tedious. I essentially kept dashing and slicing him constantly and sometimes took damage and sometimes didn't. It felt more like I was cheesing the game. His attack patterns were a little all over the place, until he reaches red health and starts throwing everything and the kitchen sink at you. When you previously fight him in the catapult tunnel (with the trippy glowing walls), the timing of his red laser homing attacks was very difficult to judge and I got hit more times than I would have liked.

I loved that the bosses could be taken down with what you had in your arsenal with no gimmicks and no QTE nonsense or anything like that.

Sound and Music

The sound and music in this game is simply beautiful. I genuinely felt like my chest was being compressed when Jehuty transforms into flight mode and launches away. The SFX are very fitting and each slice of the blade felt like my own body was being sliced up. The game's theme "Beyond the Bounds" by Maki Kirioka is very fitting for the game: haunting and upbeat at the same time.

Additional Options

There is a "Versus", "Extra Missions" and VR Training mode that you unlock after you beat the game. These are also great fun and it is so cool to be able to play against your friends with bosses that you fought in the game. The "Extra Missions" mode allows you to customise your own fights in a time attack mode affair. The VR Training mode wasn't anything special, it simply allows you to practice with the game's sub-weapons and other feature sets, but useful if you weren't too sure what certain weapons did.

Conclusions

I would like to summarise with this game, while flawed, is an absolute joy to play. If you have an even slight interest in anime robot designs, then this game is for you. If you're a fan of 3rd person hack n' slash titles, this game is also for you. It is night and day when comparing this game to its predecessor (literally everything is improved from the previous game) and I'm so glad I got to complete this love letter to the anime robot genre. If you loved the universe this game is set in, I can highly, highly recommend seeking out the Zone of the Enders: Delores, I and Zone of the Enders: Idolo animes, as these really expand the universe and go into the backstory of some of the characters from the games. Hopefully if ZOE: Mars on PS4 and PC does well, Konami might make ZOE3, fingers-crossed.

Thank you very much for reading my review!
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Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Hevi_Metaru wrote: December 2nd, 2018, 4:09 pm I'm looking for some model statues of Jehuty and Anubis that I can place on my desk.
Hi!

I was looking for exactly the same thing a few months ago and bought the two Kotobukiya models of Jehuty and Anubis:

Image

Image

They look fantastic in my display case and I can definitely vouch for their quality, although do keep in mind that they are kit models you have to assemble yourself. Which means lots of fragile little pieces and take a while to put together. They are also not as robust as rigid action figures, so buyer beware.

Great review, btw. :)
Hevi_Metaru

Re: Our next podcast recording (3.12.18) - 348: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by Hevi_Metaru »

Hey KSubzero1000

Wow, you have those two beauties in your collection! I'll definitely be on the lookout for those badboys, thanks for sharing!

I enjoyed reading your comments about the game and they are definitely more concise than mine and get to the point a lot faster.

Thanks and if I have time, I'd like to expand a lot more regarding my thoughts on the game :)
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Re: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Post by KSubzero1000 »

I know the show is currently only available on Patreon and that we therefore don't have a dedicated thread for it yet, but I wanted to offer some feedback while it was still fresh in my mind. I really enjoyed it! Broad spectrum of opinions / perspectives on the panel (which is always a plus in my eyes), an enjoyable balance of fair criticism and enthusiastic endorsement, great back-and-forth on the sound design and boss fights in particular, and tight editing. The two hours just flew by.

PS: Also, I'm glad you made such extensive use of Hevi's fantastic post.
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