Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition

[Stanshall]

The game I didn't realise I wanted.

I've almost no experience with the musou genre so I'm glad I waited for this, perhaps the ideal take on the formula for me due to affection for much of the music, roster and world.

I expected something incredibly repetitive and simplistic and, to be honest, it kind of is just that. The moment to moment gameplay is very much move in the direction of some popcorn baddies and mash Y and X until the outpost leader appears. Rinse and repeat. Take the outpost. Shuffle along to the next one. Big boss appears. Rinse and repeat for five or ten minutes. Great success.

And despite that reductive description being largely true, the execution just feels damn good. Mechanically, there are various combos to learn which are more useful in different situations with different mob placements and it feels great when you pull off the right moves to melt an entire crowd in seconds or crush a mini boss before it's even had a chance to attack.

I'd heard about the strategic elements of these games and thought that it either sounds boring, breaking up the flow in the menu screens, or just not something I'm good at or interested in. Turns out it's actually great fun sending members of your party on brief side missions and switching control at the last minute to take down the boss, or predicting the enemy's own tactical advances and snuffing them out before they can build up any steam. All this can be planned and coordinated in about three seconds. It also feels satisfying simply to 'clean' the map of enemy outposts.

This was one which never truly tempted me on the Wii U or 3DS but I'm so glad I've jumped in now. I can't pretend it's anything more than a beautifully presented charming musou game but I've got so much more enjoyment from the five hours I've played so far than the same amount of time with the ponderous God of War. I could never understand how people can play hundreds of hours of any of these games but I'm starting to see why.

[Suits]

I'm enjoying it too man, much more than I did Fire Emblem Warriors.

The familiar settings and basic understanding of the Zelda world, helps me a lot, makes it feel much more accessible.

It also makes it feel more exciting to see items and characters pop up that you recognise.

I certainly have to be in the right mood for this game though, I've not put much into it, maybe, 4/5 hours so far but it's fitting nicely into my regular gaming rotation of games that I'm playing.

I like the way you can go back to old areas and play for other goals, items or unlockables.

One think that I can't seem to get over at the moment is the nagging sort of urgency that I have when I play this game. I seem to get myself into a sort of rush mentality, panicking about getting around the map or to the objective as quickly as possible.

I'm not sure where this stems from, or that it is even necessary but it's an odd sort of thing I've picked up that is kind of spoiling the experience for me a little at the moment.

It's something I'll have to overcome if i'm going to put tens of hours into this game.

[AndrewBrown]

Have you guys started Adventure Mode?

Hooooooboy wait until you start Adventure Mode.

[Stanshall]

I'm now badly into Adventure Mode but I realise I need to finish Legend Mode to get all the items. Then Adventure Mode is probably going to be the next ten years of my life.

[seansthomas]

Tempted to buy this given the love on here. Fallen out of love with my Switch over the past few weeks, due to the release schedule mainly being games I already own, but I never picked this up on the Wii U.

[Stanshall]

It's a hell of a lot of fun but in quite a niche way. I said elsewhere - and it feels increasingly true - that it kind of reminds me of a bullet hell shmup. There's nearly constant action with small peaks and troughs from one moment to the next. It also makes me think about minimal techno where once you're attuned to the hypnotic loops, it's all about the tiny tiny shifts in dynamics. Small variations can feel very refreshing and significant. You can create excitement from a moment's pause.

The fact is that it's exceptionally repetitive, even with all the character, weapon and moveset variations. A good 75% of the game is pressing Y, but it just feels so bloody good to me, and it's executed with enormous panache.

[AndrewBrown]

It really bothers me when people say Hyrule Warriors is nothing but "pressing Y." It's extremely reductive. I could describe most games that way. Look beyond what your hands are doing please.

[Stanshall]

Point taken, but I've expanded at length about what I've enjoyed about it.

It's a deliberately reductive comment as acknowledgement that IT IS a very repetitive game, and it succeeds exceptionally in spite of that.

It bothers me when people ignore context and misrepresent what I've said.

Winky smiley.

[AndrewBrown]

A good 75% of the game is pressing Y, but it just feels so bloody good to me, and it's executed with enormous panache.

I didn't ignore the context of what you said. This is what you said.

But the real mistake I made was accepting the premise of your statement, when it's not true at all. Once you penetrate the metagame, see how far "just pressing Y" gets you. Hint: It won't be very far.

Hyrule Warriors does a bad job of foisting Link on you, as he has maybe the simplest combos in the game and has by far the most powerful weapons, so it's very easy (and tempting) to play most of the game only using him. Start exploring the other characters (esp. Zant, Young Link, Sheik) and looking at their unique mechanics to see the depth Hyrule Warriors is capable of just on an individual level, to say nothing of the pressure and time management some of the hardest levels exert on you.

[Stanshall]

As I say, it was a deliberately reductive comment to acknowledge that it is a repetitive game. Would you accept 55-60%?

I'm sure it's a trite description to someone who's played a lot more than I have, and who's attuned to its plate-spinning rhythms more finely than me, in the same way that I find the oft-cited difficulty level of Dark Souls wearing in its overstatement, missing all of the things which I love about the game.

Incidentally, I have been playing Legend Mode on hard and the 'pathfinding' is again something I find this has in common with bullet hell shmups. You can tackle the various obstacles in any order but it feels like there is an optimum route which could be mastered. I'm really enjoying that aspect of it.

Ultimately, it's one clause worth of simplified criticism to gently undercut half a dozen paragraphs of otherwise gushing praise. I started the thread purely as a recommendation so it's a word of caution; a lot of people find musou games repetitive - caveat emptor.

Edit: And thanks for expanding. I agree that Link is the lest interesting character for me so far, whereas Linkle is almost as fun as Bayonetta. Lots of character and moveset variety (all of which is triggered by repeatedly...joke). Anyway, back to it! Nearly finished Legend Mode.

[AndrewBrown]

I can't speak to those, I've only played Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors. I am planning to branch out into other titles starting with Warriors Orochi 4 this fall, and Pirate Warriors Ultimate on Switch once I finish Hyrule Warriors.

But as to Hyrule Warriors' alleged repetitiveness, I find it highly alleged.

[KSubzero1000]

If I may butt in here, I'd like to point out the difference between a game's mechanical simplicity and its engaging nature. Most arcade shoot'em ups have very simplistic control schemes, but since they are so tightly designed and utterly ruthless to the player, they still end up being very demanding and engaging.

On the other hand, the issue with traditional Musou-type games is how their repetitiveness often becomes very apparent due to lacking significant penalties for moment-to-moment mistakes. They can feel basic and repetitive because of how easy it is to mash your way through the default difficulty settings, not because they lack any hidden depth.

If I understand Stanshall's point correctly, he's praising the game for alleviating that issue thanks to its presentation, input feedback and tight mechanical polish. So I don't think you guys are disagreeing so much as talking about different things. Simple but satisfying gameplay loop vs. hidden depth when playing different modes and characters.


PS: This thread definitely piqued my curiosity about Hyrule Warriors.

[kintaris]

Agreed Ksubzero1000, the Cane and Rinse forum is doing a fine job of marketing a game I probably wouldn't have considered otherwise! As soon as I have something with a bit of monetary heft to trade I will probably pick this up, and share my fully uneducated opinions as both a Musou and Zelda novice...

[Stanshall]

I'm glad it's generated a little interest for you, I'd say it's straight into my top 5 Switch games and possibly only behind BotW and Odyssey. It certainly scratches an itch I didn't know I had. I really love it so far.

I'm also glad that I got some of my praise across accurately. It does feel mechanically very tight and satisfying. It's often hard to pinpoint that je ne sais quoi of input feedback but this has got it. It's punchy, stabby, sharp. It might be sacrilegious to some but, as I said above, the Linkle character feels absolutely fantastic and only a wicked weave away from Bayonetta. She must certainly be inspired by the character, and she is enormous fun, combining spinning crossbows, lobbed bombs, flaming twirls and a run-and-gun power up! There are so many more I could mention, though, and as Andrew says, there's an awful lot of variety in terms of characters, weapons and movesets. It's quite remarkable how they've got so many feeling so distinctive. It feels like a real labour of love.

I think beyond this level of variety and depth, though, Andrew was pointing out that the combat itself is only one aspect to the game and I've found that to be increasingly true. The real challenge (aside from some tough enemies and bosses) is in how you approach an ever-growing number of tactical conundrums. You'll be sweeping the map, storming through outposts and pressuring the final boss and then reinforcements will arrive elsewhere, or you'll trigger a side mission, or one of the other characters in your party will be under attack, or trapped by some puzzle, or there will be some environmental obstacle that you need to take out with your boomerang or hookshot, or you might have the chance to find a Gold Skulltula or a fairy if you can make it in time, all while negotiating the 'regular' combat challenge of the swarming hordes. You need to prioritise on the fly, let some things go, pick your moments and keep all the plates spinning while the enemy tries to retake key outposts and turn the tide against you. That's where the real mechanical depth comes in. And that's before we get into the conditional challenges and puzzles of Adventure Mode.

[KSubzero1000]

For those who have played both extensively, would you say that Fire Emblem Warriors is on the same level of quality as this one?

Like I said, my interest is piqued. But I would probably gravitate towards FEW first due to my higher affinity for the series unless there's a major quality difference between the two.

[AndrewBrown]

Fire Emblem Warriors was a huge disappointment to me. The campaign is okay, but the bonus "History Mode" tried to recreate the grid-based battles of the core series by turning each "unit" into a Musou-style battle and it just really didn't work for me. Moreover, it felt like some 50% of the characters were sharing the same few weapons, mostly swords--again, brought over from the core series, but it worked there and doesn't here. Contrast that with Hyrule Warriors where every Warrior has their own unique weapon, and several Warriors have more than one. I know at least one Fire Emblem fan who liked it, but I haven't played any of the Fire Emblems it was drawing from and just found the whole affair to be quite shallow.

[KSubzero1000]

Hm... Okay, thanks.

[Suits]

.....the Linkle character feels absolutely fantastic and only a wicked weave away from Bayonetta. She must certainly be inspired by the character, and she is enormous fun, combining spinning crossbows, lobbed bombs, flaming twirls and a run-and-gun power up!

This.

She took me by surprise to be honest, I can’t quite place her though - dare I say, she comes across a bit dumb !!