Octopath Traveler

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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Michiel K wrote: July 15th, 2018, 12:18 pm That's just not realistic with the way the industry (including attached media) works, I'm afraid.

Reviews around release are usually intended as a purchase guide and if a game isn't good after 8-10 hours of play, that's as valuable a point to base your purchase decision on as any, I think.

Cane and Rinse podcast coverage, a Matthewmatosis critique or any "post mortem" critique would be a complete critical breakdown, including where a game actually stands in the spectrum of video gaming history, requiring at least one full playthrough. That's almost impossible a judgment to accurately deliver in time of release.
Yes, fair enough. I think my opinion on this is a bit skewed for having forsaken conventional reviews almost entirely and being much more interested in post-launch critique these days. I may have jumped the gun a little.

Perhaps the issue could be alleviated by having publications reach out to specialist contributors for regular long-form critiques covering older games in a separate section from the "normal" reviews? That's certainly something which would make me interested in game magazines and big name websites again.
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dezm0nd
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Re: Octopath Traveler

Post by dezm0nd »

I played the demo of this based purely on positive word of mouth from podcasts. The genre is something I've struggled with for a long time and rarely do I click with it. I think it's more of a time and place thing for me and unfortunately despite this game looking absolutely amazing and sounding wonderful, I couldn't get past the introduction of one of the characters.

I played about 20 hours of Xenoblade Chronicles and I really wanted to like it but the genre just doesn't suit me unless it's of a particular ilk e.g Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi games are more my style.

I'm so happy the genre has seemingly found its feet again and maybe one day I'll strike gold with another one soon, I was just hoping it'd be this one.
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KSubzero1000
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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dezm0nd wrote: July 15th, 2018, 12:47 pm I'm so happy the genre has seemingly found its feet again and maybe one day I'll strike gold with another one soon, I was just hoping it'd be this one.
What would your ideal JRPG be like, if you don't mind me asking? Are there any specific elements which would encourage you to pick one up? Any complete deal-breakers?
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dezm0nd
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I dunno man, it's a bit frustrating really as I can't quite pin point why I don't get on with the genre as a whole. If I had to say something about it then probably a slow introduction, full of dialogue, isn't the way for me. I need a little taste of the battle system rather quickly. I need the hook into the progression system and then I'm more willing to listen and engage with the dialogue.

Paper Mario 64/TYD is a very good example of this. That and the two South Park games which aren't JRPGs but they run in similar circles.

Other JRPGs I've enjoyed

Some Pokemon games
Golden Sun
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound (although I never finished it)
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KSubzero1000
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I see. Golden Sun was my introduction to the genre and remains one of my favorites to this day, but it is a bit too talky for its own good so I can't really recommend it to you in good conscience. It does cost less than 10 €/£ on the WiiU eshop, though.

Baten Kaitos is an acquired taste, but has a wonderfully unique puzzle-like combat system that rewards both planning and quick thinking. It may be a bit difficult to obtain nowadays.

More recently, I found Ys Origins (PS4) to be very snappy and engaging, although it is an Action RPG with real time combat, so your mileage may vary whether it counts as a JRPG. The story, artstyle and characters are very reminiscent of those found in conventional JRPGs however, so perhaps it may serve as a soft introduction?

Just my two cents as someone who isn't all that fond of the overall genre anymore either, but who still enjoys dipping in and out every once in a while. :)


Edit: Ah, so you've played Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger already! Excellent. CT was going to be my next recommendation.
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Michiel K
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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KSubzero1000 wrote: July 15th, 2018, 12:46 pm Perhaps the issue could be alleviated by having publications reach out to specialist contributors for regular long-form critiques covering older games in a separate section from the "normal" reviews? That's certainly something which would make me interested in game magazines and big name websites again.
Yeah, maybe something like that. And give the initial review a recommendation for purchase or not, instead of a full on score. I already treat reviews like that myself, but maybe that would alleviate some wider communication issues.
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ThirdDrawing
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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dezm0nd wrote: July 15th, 2018, 12:27 pm We don't pick on genres, platforms or pretty much anything here at Cane and Rinse and with the current dedication to playing the entire numbered series of Final Fantasy games with our podcasts I think you'll find that we take each and every game and judge it fairly and honestly.

We're not here to "shit on JRPGs" and if you're gonna throw your toys out the pram when people offer their opinion on something you like then i'd rather you took it back to the playground.
I was not referring to the C&R team as picking on JRPGs or anything else.

I was referring to a specific drive by post that contributed nothing and was needlessly negative about a genre of games.

I apologise if I came across as slighting the C&R team as that wasn't my intention.
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Flabyo
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I didn’t ‘just come in’, I’ve been here years.

And I do like a lot of jrpgs. I just feel they haven’t improved much in the last 20 years and it irritates me, because pretty much every other genre has.

I adored final fantasy 12, rate Valkyria Chronicles as one of the best games ever made, and have a final fantasy tactics avatar over there —>

I wanted to throw Ni No Kuni out the window and FF13 was physically painful to play. Star Ocean 4 i played through and at the end wondered why I bothered. The Last Story was pretty good though.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I always long to fall in love with a JRPG but try as I might, nothing has hit the spot since FF7. I got this, though, having enjoyed the two demos (but only played an hour) and I've enjoyed the combat to some extent, so far. It's basically going to depend on whether the presentation engages me long enough for the story and characters to do their thing. I fancy a change of pace from Ikaruga, in any case, and this will be a pleasant bedtime game, I reckon.
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Alex79
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I just don't have the time really to play them properly now, but there was a time JRPGs were easily my favorite genre. The last one I really loved was Lost Odyssey, I think. I'm very slowly making my way through FFX on Vita, but other than on handheld I'd never play them any more. I still have a soft spot for them, though, and I'm glad they're still being made, even if they've not really changed since the days of FFIV.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

Post by ratsoalbion »

To be honest FFIV isn’t really all that different to FFI.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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Yeah I guess mechanically it's not, but I always considered 4 to be where they really started giving more thought to the story. Mind you, I never played the earlier games at all until after I'd played 7, 8 and 9 so going back to the very first one after that made it seem really primitive!
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Re: Octopath Traveler

Post by ratsoalbion »

You’re right enough about the story.
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chase210
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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I'm not sure I agree you need to finish a game like a JRPG (or any game) to write a review for it anyway. I mean with a game like this, if you don't like the first 5 hours, or 10, 15, 20 hours, it won't and can't be redeemed if the last 5 or 10 hours are better or more entertaining.
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KSubzero1000
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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chase210 wrote: July 15th, 2018, 11:39 pm I'm not sure I agree you need to finish a game like a JRPG (or any game) to write a review for it anyway. I mean with a game like this, if you don't like the first 5 hours, or 10, 15, 20 hours, it won't and can't be redeemed if the last 5 or 10 hours are better or more entertaining.
I suppose the issue with that line of thinking is - Would people accept film critics who walk out of the theatre during the second act of the film? Book reviewers who only read the beginning of a book and give a recommendation based of that? Test drivers who never switch gears? Restaurant critics who skip courses? It would be absurd. I'm trying to think of how much professional credibility someone like Kermode would lose if he lowered his standards to that extent. So what makes video games so special that this kind of stuff is not only tolerated, but considered the de facto journalistic standard?

I get that the industry isn't currently set up to allow for a more in-depth reviewing style, but it doesn't seem right to me. :|


Edit: I imagine exceptions could be made for multiplayer-centric or grind-heavy titles like Destiny. I was thinking primarily of games with a conventional structure based on mechanical and narrative progression. The idea of someone telling people whether or not they should buy Metroid Prime even though (s)he has never seen the Phazon Mines seems very odd to me.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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Well I suppose Kermode can in theory (I'm a big fan too) see five or 6 films in a day if he felt so inclined, or a book can be skim read to get the gist of it. You might not get all the best experience from seeing that many films, or from skiming a book, but you'd get the points you needed. I mean I doubt many people pick up all the subtext from a film or book on the first watch. Games can also be a lot longer than a movie or book anyway, and under such tight time constraints as a reviewer might have, I think playing enough to know what the games about and how the mechanics work and the story etc is enough.

Of course you should attempt to finish a game when possible, but its a little silly I think to claim a reviewer rushed through a game and didn't appreciate it because they didn't take the time to do every single side quest or see every story beat or visit every single town in a long JRPG, personally.
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KSubzero1000
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

The line between a superficial recommendation and an in-depth critic should be more clear. And as Michiel said, getting rid of numerical scores would probably lessen the tension and potential backlash.

It's true that the average consumer doesn't pick up on all the subtext or is necessarily interested in 100% completion. Shouldn't professionals lead by example, though? Speaking of Kermode, would he have such influence if he was just another disinterested moviegoer who sits through half a dozen movies a day while staring at his phone? I don't think he would.

But yeah, the strict time constraints are probably the biggest practical issue here.
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Michiel K
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Re: Octopath Traveler

Post by Michiel K »

I would also argue that films, books, cars and five course meals aren't really the same thing as games (although I recognise your larger point).

I would? Hell, I'm allready arguing it! :D

That said, if I had 2 days to review, say, God of War 2018, and I wouldn't be able to go the full length with it, I wouldn't go to in-depth about the story, not make remarks of how satisfyingly that aspect would wrap up and just focus on how the game sets it up, presents it and focus on the mechanics and its design in a similar way as well. When you buy a long game, you should probably be able to deduce whether you are happy with your purchase or not, when you are about 8 hours in. It's entirely possible to write a game review from that perspective as well.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

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Yet to start this, as my perfect laid plans were scuppered by drinking, BBQ's and football.

However, I did open up and mess about with the glorious Limited Edition, which comes with a cloth map, set of characters cards and a beautifully make diorama fold out book.

I'm not going to force the issue of playing it either and wait until the mood grabs me. Which honestly, will probably be tonight.
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Re: Octopath Traveler

Post by ThirdDrawing »

Someone pointed out on another forum (and I completely missed) that the character's names spell Octopath. (In the right order)
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