Resident Evil 2 (2019)

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Resident Evil 2 (2019)

Post by JaySevenZero » December 10th, 2018, 5:47 am

I figured that this is a a game that requires its own thread so here it is.

I still clearly remember the build-up to the original game 20 years ago, especially as I'd been hammering a demo of it before its release and I'm quite seriously contemplating a day-one pick-up for this remake as it's looking right up my street.


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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Suits » December 10th, 2018, 7:29 am

I’ll be day one for this also.

My only reservation is that I only played through the original this year and as lovely as the new version looks, it’s still very fresh in the mind.

Something that I only realised while watching a short gameplay video the other day.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by KSubzero1000 » December 10th, 2018, 11:43 am

Well, the current consensus appears to willingly reduce classic RE to its most basic description (goofy horror with guns), while viewing the rest of its defining features (tank controls / strategic combat, fixed camera design, music, orientation, item management, replay value) as either expendable oddities or artificial impediments to the player's enjoyment. I happen to look at these games holistically and to consider all of these elements to be of equal importance. And it's the cohesive whole they form that I adore. The signature design philosophy that defines them and the unique experience they offer that can't be replicated anywhere else.

From the looks of it, this game appears to borrow very little from the original except the characters and setting while doing everything in its power to transpose them into the most standardized structure imaginable. Others may understandably be overcome by nostalgia upon seeing such a sharp rendition of the R.P.D. in the trailers, whereas the first things I notice are the blatant nerfing of music, the obtrusive objective marker in the corner, the obvious absence of carefully conceived camera angles and their symbiotic relationship with the level layout, and last but not least, the cookie cutter dual analogue setup which makes me seriously question the mechanical literacy of those spouting the countless RE4 comparisons I've read / heard since E3.

I'll still buy it day one, of course. And I'll try my hardest to be as open-minded towards it as possible. I care way too much about the franchise not to. But I'll buy it with gritted teeth knowing that Capcom are gladly sacrificing my long-term engagement and adulation in favor of a quick cash influx from the least invested portion of their consumer base.

I'm sure it'll be perfunctory and enjoyable on the surface level. The enemy variety / behavior alone looks to be significantly improved from RE7. I'm sure it'll get great reviews and positive word-of-mouth for as long as it's the hot new thing. But I sincerely doubt it'll become a timeless classic like REmake or RE4, which it easily could have been if the designers had shown a greater amount of respect and understanding of their own series.

One way or another, the RE series has suffered from a severe identity crisis for the last 13 years. So in that sense, I understand that no game out there could possibly satisfy everybody at once. I also understand that Capcom is not a charity and that they're trying to generate the maximum amount of profit first and foremost. But I'd be lying if I said that it didn't bother me to see them take such an important hallmark title and polish it to the degree that most of its defining characteristics are smoothed off in order to appease the massive amount of modern players who like the idea of playing a classic RE game but don't have the patience and dedication necessary to actually sit down and play one to completion. Especially in comparison to the absolute masterclass of confidence and focus that is the first REmake.

I think I said something similar in regards to RE7, but it bears repeating here as well: I can't think of any other series that continues to be treated so disrespectfully. There is no way that the next Street Fighter will be anything but a 2D-based fighter. There is no way that the next Soul Calibur will be anything but a 3D fighter. There is no way that the next Halo will be anything but a sci-fi-themed FPS. There is no way that the next GTA will be anything but an open world mayhem simulator. There is no way that the next Gran Turismo will be anything but... well, Gran Turismo. Those games all follow their specific design philosophies, warts and all. Take it or leave it. But when it comes to Resident Evil, all bets are off as long as the final product is even remotely horror related.

And that, I think, is a damn shame.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by dezm0nd » December 10th, 2018, 11:49 am

Cannot wait.

There's a brilliant breakdown of all the original games' ports over on the Digital Foundry Youtube channel if you're into that sort of thing.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by DomsBeard » December 10th, 2018, 2:10 pm

Taken the day off for this.

Resi 2 is a classic all time favourite of mine. I have avoided/skimmed the videos as they seem to be showing a bit too much for me and I really do not want to unfollow everything just to avoid it.

My only concern is the music. I am hoping for remastered versions of the Resi 2's or even an option for the originals

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Combine Hunter » December 10th, 2018, 6:46 pm

Hey KSubzero1000, I have to respectfully counter your points. To me, what's important is maintaining the core philosophy of a series when changing it and I feel Resident Evil 7, while not completely without flaw, cared deeply about the core experience of the series. (definitely more than any game since 4 that I've played) The first 2 thirds of 7 felt more like the original Resident Evil than anything since the 2nd game. Labyrinthine structure to navigate, check. Enemies that you're better off running away from than fighting, check. Very limited resources that need to be used sparingly, check. The camera angle and controls have changed, but what they ultimately achieve hasn't.

And I feel very similarly about this Resident Evil 2 remake. I'm not viewing this as some replacement for the original, because I can't stand when critics do that, I'm viewing it as different take on a familiar set up. I will ultimately still replay and love the original (I only played it for the first time last year and I feel it holds up), but there is room for this to offer something a bit different. First of all, "the cookie cutter dual analogue setup" as seen in stuff like Dead Space and Evil Within is clearly an evolution of what RE4 popularised, so I really don't think folks making that comparison are off base. Their is lineage there you can trace back to RE4. Secondly, the number of people who have played this and said that the level layouts have the same labyrinthine quality, that enemies sometimes take too much ammo to down, that you're better off running away. That's Resident Evil as fuck to me. Seeing the recent footage of Mr. X has only got me more excited, because it feels like they've gone back to evolve the idea around Nemesis. Nemesis is one my favourite things the series has ever done.

There absolutely is still value in the camera angle and mechanical choice made in the original, but this doesn't have to be an attack on those ideas. It's just a different method of achieving the same ends.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by KSubzero1000 » December 10th, 2018, 10:43 pm

Hey Josh! For the record, I completely understand where you (and many others) are coming from in regards to the same ends being achieved even through different means. But the reason I'm the lone dissenting voice in this community on the topic of RE7 is that for me, the means are the important part and not the ends. There are hundreds of different horror games on the market. Dozens of different ways to induce fear and anxiety in the player. But there is only one brand of classic RE, and that's a brand I'm incredibly fond and protective of. I'm glad you enjoyed RE7, and I'm certainly looking forward to hearing you guys go into more details on the podcast, but I unfortunately can't say that my experience with it mirrored your own in any way. The reason I like the classic games so much and found RE7 to be a disappointment is that I genuinely enjoy diving into the intricacies of the various systems. Evoking similar emotions through a drastically different formula doesn't really appeal to me, although I'm obviously in a very small minority in that regard.


I do have to contest the following, however:
Combine Hunter wrote:
December 10th, 2018, 6:46 pm
"the cookie cutter dual analogue setup" as seen in stuff like Dead Space and Evil Within is clearly an evolution of what RE4 popularised, so I really don't think folks making that comparison are off base. Their is lineage there you can trace back to RE4.
Yes, the currently omnipresent dual analogue setup is indeed an evolution of the RE4 control scheme. BUT, (and this is a massive "but" that I hardly ever see mentioned anywhere) that evolution also came at a significant cost, namely the subtle ways in which the mechanical restriction of not being able to move while shooting directly influences the enemy AI and encounter design. The close quarters combat being the most prominent example. You can reliably defeat Dr.Salvador using only the knife and without taking any damage simply through careful positioning and AI manipulation. You won't be able to do anything similar in Dead Space, RE6, TLoU or TEW, because those games just don't have the same finely tuned symbiotic relationship between player input and enemy behavior.

If you have a few minutes to spare (and please forgive the narcissistic self-quote), here's a video I posted a few months ago that might help illustrate my point:
KSubzero1000 wrote:
February 9th, 2018, 9:08 pm


This is mid-to-high level gameplay footage of Yours Truly, taken two weeks ago while trying to improve my Village Mercs score. It's actually kind of a bad run and I messed up a lot of my strats during the second half of the run, but I think it serves as a good vertical slice of the kind of advanced techniques that the game is able to provide. It contains examples of:

0:35 - Multiple animations bait and time-sensitive exploitation of enemy recovery phases.
1:20 - C-Turning.
1:28 - Aggroing through FOV shots & subsequent backing up.
1:50 - Projectile cancelling through explosion
2:13 - Exploitation of the hyper-vulnerability property during the enemy's recovery phase...
2:19 - ...Followed by another split-second animation bait on the second Bella.
3:06 - Activation of the explosion within the "Sweet spot" which harms enemies but provides i-frames to Hunk.
3:33 - Instantaneous "tech" reload activated by triggering the animation within the aforementioned sweet spot.
3:40 - Exploitation of the i-frames during melee moves to survive the chainsaw attack.
4:50 - Strategic use of the incendiary grenade in order to slow them down and to set up the following hand grenade.
7:10 - Repeated projectile cancelling in response to the specific sound cues.
And that's why I feel like these comparisons are off base. There are many, many games that look like RE4 at first glance. But there is nothing that plays quite like it, not to that ludicrous degree of precision and situational control anyway. Including Dead Space and Evil Within, as intuitive, fluid and dynamic as they otherwise might be. That's why I keep going back to it like a maniac. An over-the-shoulder remake of RE2 would have been the perfect opportunity to double down on this delightfully layered and rewarding metagame, and I'm sad to see it being swept under the rug yet again.

Combine Hunter wrote:
December 10th, 2018, 6:46 pm
Secondly, the number of people who have played this and said that the level layouts have the same labyrinthine quality, that enemies sometimes take too much ammo to down, that you're better off running away. That's Resident Evil as fuck to me. Seeing the recent footage of Mr. X has only got me more excited, because it feels like they've gone back to evolve the idea around Nemesis.
Now this on the other hand sounds great! I haven't dived too deeply into the promotional material for fears of spoilers, but this is wonderful to hear. I hope these people are onto something! :P


Lastly, and this may perhaps shine a light onto why I'm such a pedantic inflexible hardass about all this, but please consider that there is currently no substitute on the market for either the classic or action RE. That's the difference between someone like me and someone with a deep affection for SNES-era turn-based JRPGs and 2D platformers. Sure, the AAA landscape has long since moved on from these types of games as well, but their needs are still being met through new old-school releases such as Radiant Historia, Octopath Traveler, Celeste, Shovel Knight, and even a brand-new MegaMan. Whereas all I get are glitchy low-effort ports and condescending developer interviews. So in that sense, it's a bit difficult to not see these developments as an attack on the specific design philosophies I happen to cherish.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Alex79uk » December 11th, 2018, 2:48 pm

KSubzero1000 wrote:
December 10th, 2018, 10:43 pm
You can reliably defeat Dr.Salvador using only the knife and without taking any damage simply through careful positioning and AI manipulation. You won't be able to do anything similar in Dead Space, RE6, TLoU or TEW, because those games just don't have the same finely tuned symbiotic relationship between player input and enemy behavior.
That's true, but it's not really fun. I can see a slight appeal in challenging yourself I guess, but it's something that [pick a number]% of players would have no interest in at all.

I do sympathise that a series you clearly love so much has gone in a direction you have less affection for, but I suppose Capcom are just more interested in capturing the wider audience really.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by KSubzero1000 » December 11th, 2018, 3:46 pm

Alex79uk wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 2:48 pm
That's true, but it's not really fun. I can see a slight appeal in challenging yourself I guess, but it's something that [pick a number]% of players would have no interest in at all.
Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the notion that trying to reach a game's skill ceiling isn't fun. I happen to think that games with a high skill ceiling and robust mechanical structures are capable of offering uniquely engaging experiences that no other medium can, and that we shouldn't just willingly throw them under the wheels of capitalistic pragmatism.

Because the logical conclusion of that train of thought is that we also don't need any shoot 'em ups, visual novels, sprite-based 2D fighting games, Super Meat Boy's endgame levels, platinum medals in Bayonetta, leaderboards in Tetris Effect, endurance races in racing games, etc... any more. It's only a low% of the player base who is willing to engage with any of that stuff, after all.

Here is my position, in so many words: I want everybody's desires to be fulfilled. I want every type of player to be accounted for. If you (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this, Alex) are the type of player who wants to enjoy the bombastic vibrant presentation of a casual Uncharted playthrough, and who wants to get lost for dozens of hours in the intricate world of The Witcher 3 without worrying about any intrusive challenge, I think there should totally be a place for that and I would never want to take that enjoyment away from you. But I also think there should be a place for subtle audiovisual mood pieces like Journey, frenetic arena FPSs like DOOM, tight stealth games with ludicrously ambitious stories like MGS, insanely polished immersive slow-burners like RDR2, storytelling rollercoasters like Ace Attorney, gripping arcadey action titles like Ikaruga, high-brow strategy games like Civilization, and yes, even survival horror games that are a tiny bit more substantial and imaginative than Outlast. Even interactive storytelling potpourris like Heavy Rain or open-ended discovery sandboxes like Skyrim have their place. I'll never be able to engage with those in the same way that I am able to engage with my darlings, but they do fill specific niches and have enthusiastic followings, which means that the medium as a whole is stronger by virtue of their existence.

The same goes for games of varying skill ceilings within the same genre. Both Uncharted and Vanquish have their own strengths and weaknesses and therefore their place.

I think we should respect both the casual and the dedicated players of all types, tastes and levels of engagement, and that the creative diversity of the medium is something to be cherished and preserved. And so I'll continue to lament the rampant creative impoverishment du jour whenever unique design philosophies are being erased out of the market without worrying too much about the the convenient rationalizations of Capcom's shareholders.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Alex79uk » December 11th, 2018, 5:43 pm

KSubzero1000 wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 3:46 pm
Alex79uk wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 2:48 pm
That's true, but it's not really fun. I can see a slight appeal in challenging yourself I guess, but it's something that [pick a number]% of players would have no interest in at all.
Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the notion that trying to reach a game's skill ceiling isn't fun. I happen to think that games with a high skill ceiling and robust mechanical structures are capable of offering uniquely engaging experiences that no other medium can, and that we shouldn't just willingly throw them under the wheels of capitalistic pragmatism.


That wasn't really what I was saying. I was literally saying making your way through a game like Resident Evil using just the knife just isn't that fun. Not to me. I appreciate some people may enjoy that, but I'd wager the majority of folk aren't really interested in that kind of gaming.
If you (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this, Alex) are the type of player who wants to enjoy the bombastic vibrant presentation of a casual Uncharted playthrough, and who wants to get lost for dozens of hours in the intricate world of The Witcher 3 without worrying about any intrusive challenge, I think there should totally be a place for that and I would never want to take that enjoyment away from you. But I also think there should be a place for subtle audiovisual mood pieces like Journey, frenetic arena FPSs like DOOM, tight stealth games with ludicrously ambitious stories like MGS, insanely polished immersive slow-burners like RDR2, storytelling rollercoasters like Ace Attorney, gripping arcadey action titles like Ikaruga, high-brow strategy games like Civilization, and yes, even survival horror games that are a tiny bit more substantial and imaginative than Outlast. Even interactive storytelling potpourris like Heavy Rain or open-ended discovery sandboxes like Skyrim have their place. I'll never be able to engage with those in the same way that I am able to engage with my darlings, but they do fill specific niches and have enthusiastic followings, which means that the medium as a whole is stronger by virtue of their existence.


I wouldn't say I necessarily prefer any of those descriptions over another. I'm equally happy wandering around the sedate, narrative rich world of Everybody's Gone To The Rapture, as I am New Game Plussing it on Dark Souls, as I am enjoying an incredible set piece in Uncharted.

At no point am I saying there's not room for all of what you describe to exist, indeed it should and does all exist. I just think games are being improved upon all the time, and if that means losing tank controls or any other mechanic I don't worry too much.

BUT - I get why you do. Each to their own, and I suppose maybe if it were a series I held in such high regard as you do RE, then maybe I'd be a lot more upset.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Sean » December 12th, 2018, 3:43 am

Just recently realized that this is the only game I'm really psyched for that's releasing in 2019. There are others I'm interested in, but, this is the only one I'm day one on.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by dezm0nd » December 12th, 2018, 7:18 am

Yeah its certainly (so far) my most anticipated for next year too.

Some other good potential games like Sekiro, Crackdown 3, Rage 2, Anthem, Metro Exodus, Days Gone (!), Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein Young Blood, Gears 5, Control...

Actually 2019 is look alright

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Alex79uk » December 12th, 2018, 11:22 am

The Last Of Us 2, Kingdom Hearts 3, Shenmue 3....! (although those second two depend on your history with the series' I suppose).

Death Strandi..... Nah haha. I couldn't even finish that sentence.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Michiel K » December 12th, 2018, 1:08 pm

Alex79uk wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 5:43 pm
At no point am I saying there's not room for all of what you describe to exist, indeed it should and does all exist. I just think games are being improved upon all the time, and if that means losing tank controls or any other mechanic I don't worry too much.
Sorry Alex, I disagree there. For every improvement made, there are at least as many babies thrown out with the bathwater. Which is why I find it so rewarding to go back to older titles, even ones I've never played before, and (re)discover so many interesting ideas, mechanics and design decisions and philosophies that have been left by the wayside.

I have to agree with Ksub also that (ideally) all preferences should be catered for and I'd hesitate to adopt a "no big loss, as *I* don't care" stance on this, even though knifing my way through a Resident Evil game isn't my idea of having a good time either, personally.

Now thankfully, the PS3/360 generation is behind us and devs/publishers aren't as obsessed with streamlining as they were in those days anymore and there is a growing audience and community of creators that is aware that not all classic design philosphies are without merit in modern times.

But yeah, the Resident Evil 2 Remake... I'm really looking forward to it, even though it will undoubtedly offer an experience that's very different to the original. Only makes it more interesting, in my book, providing it'll be a good/great game in its own right.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Simonsloth » January 7th, 2019, 8:24 pm

https://twitter.com/re_games/status/108 ... 55552?s=21

Resident Evil 2 Safehouse coming to London this year. No idea what it is though.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Magical_Isopod » January 8th, 2019, 1:07 am

I'm cautiously optimistic for this game. Aside from the teaser where a shelf falls on a rat (wasn't there a rat that left notes in CVX?) and little snippets of gameplay during montages and the like, I'm going purely on blind faith after liking 7 so much. I got $10 a preorder on Boxing Day, so even if I hate it, I'll wind up getting my money back on eBay, more or less.

Now, I must say - I prefer "classic Resident Evil", but how many of those ARE there, really?
There's the original and REmake.
There's RE2, but by this point, we're already moving to a much more linear design with a bigger emphasis on action (I just played Claire A two months ago).
Then we get RE3, a game so tiny I think you could have RE3make as DLC for RE2make.
Interspersed among them, you have those awful Gun Survivor games and probably some other spinoffs.
You get Code Veronica, which is really kind of a return to "classic" form.
You get Zero, which again is quite action-heavy and cycles through a ton of smaller locales.
And you get RE4, which is an oddball romantic comedy.

So really, what IS "classic" Resident Evil? In my mind, there's no such thing. There is no common thread that holds all these games together, aside from a very general bioweapon horror theme.

And I should note, as well, I only started playing the series in... 2006? 2007? I'm not massively keen on RE4, but I do like Revelations. REmake and Code Veronica are my two faves, but RE3 and RE0 are kinda ho-hum.

It's nice to want "classic Resident Evil", but none of them are really similar enough that you can say, "Yep, this is the formula."

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by KSubzero1000 » January 8th, 2019, 1:38 am

Magical_Isopod wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 1:07 am
So really, what IS "classic" Resident Evil? In my mind, there's no such thing. There is no common thread that holds all these games together, aside from a very general bioweapon horror theme.
[..]
It's nice to want "classic Resident Evil", but none of them are really similar enough that you can say, "Yep, this is the formula."
Well, to me, all of the pre-RE4 mainline games (1, 2, 3, CVX, REmake, Zero) are built on three core pillars:

1. Unique audiovisual presentation based on carefully designed fixed camera angles and a prominent soundtrack.
2. Slow-paced, methodical combat with a focus on positioning and deliberate animations with very few randomized variables that allows for a deceptively high skill ceiling.
3. A need for orientation and strategical planning in terms of item management and long term puzzles.

So I completely disagree with you. They may all have different tones, characters and settings, but they certainly do share a common structural foundation, which is what I mean whenever I talk about the "classic Resident Evil formula". Some of the games are more action-oriented than others, but these three aspects are present in all of them.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Suits » January 8th, 2019, 11:54 am

I was listening to the Kinda Funny podcast last night while playing Pro and Greg on there was waxing lyrical about this - as he’s played it.

I was up for this but listening to his enthusiasm for it has made me even more excited to sit down and settle into his.

Having not too long ago played through the GameCube version keeps it pretty fresh in the mind too 😎.

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by DomsBeard » January 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Demo coming out this week. Hope it is a timed demo like it was back when it was originally released :lol: (with the Resident Evil Directors cut if I remember right?)

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Re: Resident Evil 2 Remake

Post by Suits » January 8th, 2019, 2:21 pm

I’m going to skip the demo - I often do nowadays, on games I know I’m going to get.

Nice that it’s actually called a demo and not a BETA, etc.....

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