Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

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Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here's where you can contribute your memories and opinions of Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.

Friendly reminder to all that where feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but self-editing (brevity) is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mainly reading. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
kintaris

Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by kintaris »

Monkey Island 2: Le Chuck's Revenge remains one of my favourite games of my childhood. Like many family-oriented products of the 90s it was full of as much child-unfriendly creepiness as it was stuffed with goofy jokes and charming characters. It also contains one of the most bewildering and terrifying cliffhangers I have experienced.

Curse of Monkey Island is perhaps as good a resolution of that bizarre ending as we could ever hope for, but it could never truly match up to my expectations. It was my generation's LOST -- fascinating to speculate on what it could all possibly mean but impossible for any writer to resolve in a satisfactory way.

The game itself is still a blast to play through despite some classic LucasArts madness when it comes to sensible puzzle solutions. Make sure you play with the original graphics settings turned on -- though I love Dominic Amato's spoken version of Guybrush and the re-orchestrated score in the Special Edition, the retouched art style is frankly a little sickening.

EDIT: How's that length-wise? I've tried to restrain myself, this is quite a special game to me!
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

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Three paras is fine!
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Alex79 »

kintaris wrote: January 15th, 2019, 11:27 amIt was my generation's LOST -- fascinating to speculate on what it could all possibly mean but impossible for any writer to resolve in a satisfactory way.
Right, now this is not the thread to do it in, but remind me sometime to tell you why Lost had a perfect ending and left quite literally not a single question unanswered.

:D
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Mechner »

Monkey Island 2 is aptly the second game I ever played, to this day it remains my second favorite game of all time (behind the original Prince of Persia). I vividly remember my dad installing it on our first family computer, I still have the copied floppies my dad got off a friend in work. I was so young that I cannot remember whether I was 3 or 4 years old. A cold open, classy and cinematic, who are these characters? what is their story? all I know is, I was suddenly enraptured by the bleeps and bloops screaming from my internal pc speaker, as one of the greatest theme tunes ripped out of the body of our beige box. Man, that theme tune… even then, without a dedicated soundcard, I was instantly in love. I have to admit it is so deeply engrained in my pyche, that it often brings me to tears when I listen to it. It’s my ultimate nostalgia.

So began a long lasting love affair, with Monkey Island. It has had a deep and dateless effect on the person I am today.

It would be remise of me to not speak about Michael Land’s work on the series, I feel it is often unsung, or over-shadowed by his work on iMuse, and by the many other great aspects of the series. Not enough praise gets placed on his composition, which is simply perfect. Reggee infused English folk (who thought that would work?) the music is memorable, like nothing else.

I am not going to go into depth about the Art, Story and Puzzles, and why I think they are all sublime, because I love each aspect of the game and I could keep you here all day. I am sure your very capable and thorough discussion, will shed much light on all those individual things and why they are great. Instead, I will talk about one more thing, The End.

The End of Monkey Island 2 is perhaps it’s defining feature. It definitley is one of the things Ron Gilbert will be remembered for, be it for better or worse. Sadly, he may never get the chance to reveal his true intentions for the ending, because Disney now owns the IP and they probably don't even know, or care, what Monkey Island is. Ron is also a rather stubborn man, he has said, he would not work on the true sequel unless he had complete control. Thus, a stalemate. Monkey Island, according to Ron, was always planned as a trilogy, his “Monkey Island 3: The Secret or your Money Back” (or as it is affectionitley known by fans “Monkey Island 3a”) never came to fruition, as he unceremoniously left Lucasfilm Games before making it. Instead, his IP was left in the hands of others trying to pick up the pieces. Whilst he once came close to buying back the rights, (before corperate giants Disney, were sold Lucasfilm Ltd) it never happended, due to management changes and business mumbo jumbo. While those left at Lucas Arts, continued and in my opinion achieved a great continuation of the series with "Curse", I was always left with a niggling feeling that it hadn't come from the auteur himself, or rather, it could be treated as an alternative reality sequel.

But where did Monkey 2 leave us? At a carnival, as a young boy, unsure of the reality of his current situation. I believe to this day, I have never been so deeply affected by an ending of a narrative, in any medium. (except maybe Twin Peaks Season 2) I am of the opinion that Monkey Island 2, has the best ending, of anything, ever.

It does NOT hold your hand and tell you well done, it does NOT give you a happy ending where the hero wins and gets “the girl”, it does NOT even give you, a sad ending, where the hero loses.

It gives you an ending, that you either hate, or love. It pulls the carpet right from under your feet, and it achieves what all great art achieves… it keeps you thinking about it… long after the floppy disk has left your drive. It keeps you talking about it, long after you went outside to play with your friends. It keeps itself alive, through discussion, through endless theorising, through meticulous dissection of every line uttered, through every insignificant object examined and through the many disagreements on what it all means! It is anything, but boring. That is why I think it is the best ending, it gives you just enough to satisfy you, but it also gives you "NOT" enough, to keep you guessing and wondering. I remember on first completing the game as a kid, I was confused, I didn't think it was the end, I didn't want it to be the end... I thought maybe if I wait long enough, the game will continue, but it never did... and I never forgot it.

Was it all in Guybrush's head?
Is he really just a young boy with an over-active imagination?
Is it just a clever curse conjured by the evil LeChuck?
What is the Secret of Monkey Island?

One thing I know for certain, the answer lies somewhere in a deep blue... 3a
Truthful Cake

Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Truthful Cake »

(long time listener, first-time poster here) Although I wasn't alive during the golden era of point and click adventure games, I have still always considered them one of my favorite genres, ever since playing Scooby Doo Classic Creep Capers on the Game Boy Color as a child (how's that for an obscure one?). Among the several genre classics I have played over the years, the Monkey Island games remain at the very top of my list. I'll never forget the first time I played the first game in the series. It had everything I could possibly want from an adventure game: toe-tapping music, beautiful pixel art, interesting characters, and, most importantly, an unforgettable sense of humor. To this, day few games have made me laugh out loud more than this gem. So when I finally got around to playing the sequel, I was initially skeptical. How could Monkey Island 2 possibly outdo the first game when it had been so perfect? I was thoroughly anticipating being disappointed. Oh, how wrong I was. Simply put, Monkey Island 2 has everything the first game had with the addition of so much more. The music was better, the jokes were funnier, and the story had (surprisingly) more suspense and intrigue. Sure, the puzzles rely on ridiculous leaps in logic, but that's just how these games have always been. Besides, it makes up for it in the writing department: I will never forget calling the hint line in the jungle, the trippy skeleton dance scene, or, above all, the baffling twist ending. What did that ending even mean? We may never know, but it doesn't matter. Monkey Island 2 is point and click adventure perfection, and now I want to go play it again.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Alex79 »

Monkey Island 2 is a really special game to me. I first played it on the Amiga borrowed from a friend, disc swapping galore. From the first time I played it I was in love, it looked gorgeous, it was funny to 13 year old me, and everyone wants to be a pirate, right?

I next played it with an old girlfriend and we would sit up till all hours trying to finish the game because I'd forgotten all the puzzles, really happy memories of this, it's genuinely a time I look back on and realise I was so happy and content, but enough of that. More recently I played through the enhanced version on iOS and still loved it.

I really like the music in the game, I love the visual style and characters, the atmosphere - each little area is so unique and distinct from the other, and there is little else in gaming for me more iconic than that title screen as the music kicks in. Just love the game from start to finish, it really is an all timer.

THREE WORD REVIEW: Point n' click perfection.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by seansthomas »

When I start student talks to designers about how I fell into our industry, I often start with a picture of this game.

Until I played Monkey Island 2, all the games I'd played were about high scores or scoring goals. But this game altered all of that.

I couldn't die. It made me laugh. The soundtrack added character to the pixelated population. It had style. It transported me somewhere I'd love to visit. And, above all, it made me think laterally and figure things out for myself.

It unlocked something in me I'd never really worked out before. That I liked solving problems. Even obtuse ones involving rats and boxes of cheese.

Yes I spent too long at times randomly clicking on every combination of action and item in the vain hope it might yield some result my brain couldn't fathom. But it had a profound effect on me; I sought out alternative comedy. I hoovered up point and click games. I started reading Choose your own adventure books. I bought Deluxe Paint 3 and tried to draw digitally.

Monkey Island 2 was the first time I felt that games could be epic, funny, human stories in their own right and potentially an artform that could one day take on Hollywood. And on a personal level, it was the first game to get me thinking about the career I'd spend most of my adult life doing.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by KissMammal »

Without a doubt a huge amount of this games appeal lies in its visuals. The world of Monkey Island 2 is gob-smackingly beautiful and showcases an incredible use of design, animation, colour and perspective to create rich and memorable environments and characters. Even at the time I remember marveling that Lucasarts’ artists were able to create a convincing depth to the locations, with some even having the illusion of foreground elements being out of focus - and that they were able to achieve all of this within the limitations of the VGA pallette and resolution. It’s testament to the skill of the original art team that the remake, while looking very polished, arguably lacks a certain vitality and charm found in the original.

Regarding the games humour - while it undoubtedly has a lot of personality and charm and was certainly funnier and more sophisticated than other videogames of the time, I do wonder how well it has dated, and whether its one of those things that you really had to be there at the time to appreciate. I can’t really imagine that its oddball blend of weird self referential jokes, non sequiturs and curious obsessions with things like root beer and trademark symbols would play well with a modern audience. Even as an adult I occasionally still can’t quite shake the feeling that I’m missing something, or whether I’m in on the joke or not. Its often hard to see these things without the rose tinted spectacles of nostalgia - and comedy is hugely subjective - but I do sometimes find myself wondering whether the humour has dated poorly, or if it was really all that funny in the first place?

Perhaps thats overly critical. It’s still an all time classic - and perhaps to this day the greatest point and click adventure ever made.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by seansthomas »

KissMammal wrote: March 24th, 2019, 9:09 pm Without a doubt a huge amount of this games appeal lies in its visuals. The world of Monkey Island 2 is gob-smackingly beautiful and showcases an incredible use of design, animation, colour and perspective to create rich and memorable environments and characters. Even at the time I remember marveling that Lucasarts’ artists were able to create a convincing depth to the locations, with some even having the illusion of foreground elements being out of focus - and that they were able to achieve all of this within the limitations of the VGA pallette and resolution. It’s testament to the skill of the original art team that the remake, while looking very polished, arguably lacks a certain vitality and charm found in the original.

Regarding the games humour - while it undoubtedly has a lot of personality and charm and was certainly funnier and more sophisticated than other videogames of the time, I do wonder how well it has dated, and whether its one of those things that you really had to be there at the time to appreciate. I can’t really imagine that its oddball blend of weird self referential jokes, non sequiturs and curious obsessions with things like root beer and trademark symbols would play well with a modern audience. Even as an adult I occasionally still can’t quite shake the feeling that I’m missing something, or whether I’m in on the joke or not. Its often hard to see these things without the rose tinted spectacles of nostalgia - and comedy is hugely subjective - but I do sometimes find myself wondering whether the humour has dated poorly, or if it was really all that funny in the first place?

Perhaps thats overly critical. It’s still an all time classic - and perhaps to this day the greatest point and click adventure ever made.
I agree with that. The game got me into Red Dwarf and Blackadder but I find both of them a bit forced and hard to watch now.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by KissMammal »

seansthomas wrote: March 25th, 2019, 6:48 am
KissMammal wrote: March 24th, 2019, 9:09 pm Without a doubt a huge amount of this games appeal lies in its visuals. The world of Monkey Island 2 is gob-smackingly beautiful and showcases an incredible use of design, animation, colour and perspective to create rich and memorable environments and characters. Even at the time I remember marveling that Lucasarts’ artists were able to create a convincing depth to the locations, with some even having the illusion of foreground elements being out of focus - and that they were able to achieve all of this within the limitations of the VGA pallette and resolution. It’s testament to the skill of the original art team that the remake, while looking very polished, arguably lacks a certain vitality and charm found in the original.

Regarding the games humour - while it undoubtedly has a lot of personality and charm and was certainly funnier and more sophisticated than other videogames of the time, I do wonder how well it has dated, and whether its one of those things that you really had to be there at the time to appreciate. I can’t really imagine that its oddball blend of weird self referential jokes, non sequiturs and curious obsessions with things like root beer and trademark symbols would play well with a modern audience. Even as an adult I occasionally still can’t quite shake the feeling that I’m missing something, or whether I’m in on the joke or not. Its often hard to see these things without the rose tinted spectacles of nostalgia - and comedy is hugely subjective - but I do sometimes find myself wondering whether the humour has dated poorly, or if it was really all that funny in the first place?

Perhaps thats overly critical. It’s still an all time classic - and perhaps to this day the greatest point and click adventure ever made.
I agree with that. The game got me into Red Dwarf and Blackadder but I find both of them a bit forced and hard to watch now.
Haha, yeah, I can relate.

I think it's also because I'm playing Thimbleweed Park at the moment which is making me reassess Ron Gilbert's humour a bit.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by The_reviewist »

Monkey island 2, was the very first point and Click game I ever played. I didn't have a PC back in the halcyon days of 1991, but my friend did, and over one very intense weekend, we played our way from the start to almost the end. Getting stuck finally when Guybrush fell down the hole and we couldn't find the light switch. With school the next day, I had to lumber home with the game unfinished and didn't find out how the story ended for another couple of weeks.

It's a strange result of this that while I love that game, and recently replayed the Xbox version of it, I never quite fell in love with the rest of the genre as much, and only played The original game last year for the first time, also on my Xbox. That said, the quirky art, the silly humour, and even the star wars and Indy Jones references really made this game stand tall in my mind and to date, I've never played a point and click game that was as much fun, and that managed to straddle the line between tough puzzles and unfair leaps of logic inherent to the genre better. A gem.
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by The Baboon Baron »

Talking about Monkey Island 2 conjures up some wonderful childhood memories; me and my best friend huddled around his dad’s work computer, giggling at the jokes, wondering at the puzzles and downing an impressive volume of Ribena.

We adored it, and speaking of it now, over 25 years later, I can only recall positive warm fuzzy feelings about MI2. The setting of Pirates and Voodoo appealed no end, particularly to a swashbuckling young lad such as I was. The graphics and sound impressed me then as they do now, tapping into that magical space between unpleasant body horror and cartoonish silliness. Years later I would learn this “shop style” could be found in Day of the Tentacle as well as others.

Sure, the point and click genre has not aged well, nor has the moon logic that is sometimes required. Like Thimbleweed Park in recent years, aspects of point and click games seems somehow more confusing now than they did in the nineties- perhaps its our aching Steam libraries, or perhaps that I’ve now had to rein in the Ribena consumption. But for whatever reason it is, it’s the memories of MI2 that keep me replaying it. Looking back on it now, the story and characters were very ahead of its time- Guybrush and Elaine particularly are well rounded and interesting. The story, joyfully plots a meandering course through treasure hunting, map finding, cursed ghost remains and an amusement park? Sure, like most I still don’t really get the ending, but in a way its fitting that its so strange.

The influence MI as a series has had on me cannot be understated- between this, Zelda and Resident Evil, these games had a genuine effect on me. A sense of silliness, adventure, sardonic humour and rubber chickens with pullies in the middle are all present and correct thanks to Monkey Island. My alarm every morning is the Monkey Island theme, a song I will never get tired off. And each morning it makes me smile.

And if you don’t like that, well, I’m selling these fine leather jackets…
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Re: 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by DeadpoolNegative »

While I was a huge fan of Maniac Mansion and Day of the Tentacle, I only came to the Monkey Island series when the special editions made it to XBox LIVE. I found The Secret of Monkey Island to be a very entertaining and funny adventure that put a big goofy grin on my face.

LeChuck's Revenge, by contrast, is a far more challenging, coarser, and darker experience, though that doesn't mean it's not a good game. It's just that the puzzles are crazier and more obscure than ever. Guybrush Threepwood also comes off as more of a self-absorbed jerk. Elaine can't stand him for reasons never entirely explained, and many solutions have him screwing over NPCs with glee. Heck, did he straight up murder poor Stan just to get a key? Alleviating this is Dominic Armato's always amiable performance, but if you go into classic mode he's kind of a sociopath.

The puzzles are SO strange and out there, that I often found myself hammering that X button for the hints, but when they came together I couldn't help but admire some of the imagination on display. Frustrating and fun in equal measure. In fact, I'm wondering if in a way that's part of the point: Monkey Island 2 feels like Gilbert is struggling with the storytelling constraints of Guybrush's world and the need to continually one-up the puzzles and solutions, to the point where the game's controversial ending feels like an attempt to completely blow it apart.

Yes, that ending. I must say- I enjoyed it. I'm not sure it's properly set up- just hints here and there throughout the narrative- but again, I think Ron Gilbert was trying to do more with the world of Monkey Island than make it a delivery system for weird jokes. And for that, he should be commended, even if we'll likely never know how he planned to resolve it.

--Dan
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Re: Our next podcast recording (28.5.19) - 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Simonsloth »

Monkey Island 2 has a rather unique place in my gaming history after all this was the first and only game I ever swapped with a complete stranger via a magazine advert.

I traded a scrolling shooter (the name of which escapes me) for Monkey Island 2 on the Amiga. I thought I was getting a bargain. A big-box 12 floppy disc fully-fledged classic which I had fawned over in exchange for a measly single disc shooter without a box. I instantly fell in love but agonisingly could never finish that version as it turned out one of the discs was a dud. These were the days when my parents would buy me two games a year, one for my birthday and one at Christmas. They were extremely anti-piracy even though I owned the game and thought my ill advised swap with a complete stranger was a learning experience so didn’t do the kind thing and help me rectify my mistake. It actually took me a considerable amount of time to learn about the duff disc as I hadn’t mastered the art of trying everything with everything else. I resorted to multipart magazine walkthroughs spread over several months and actually wrote into a magazine. Unsurprisingly this was for the solution to the less than intuitive spitting contest which to this day I still struggle to comprehend and rely on a step by step guide. I used to lie in bed at night and think about logical solutions to my latest quandaries. I now know this was a complete waste of time as if lucasarts games have taught me anything it’s that Occam’s razor does not apply (the simplest explanation is almost never the right one).

Never has a game permeated my consciousness so utterly and completely as this game. Infinitely quotable, ever replayable, bought on every console I own that it is available on. My 4 year old son is told the adventures of LeChuck and Guybrush as bedtime stories, my 11 month old daughter’s flailing arms when she is excited remind me of Stan and make me chuckle every time. My playground quotes were Guybrush quips when everyone else was referencing Star Wars.

I have a deeply personal love for this game but as I write this I wonder if that disc hadn’t been a dud whether I would be writing these very words. As it stands Guybrush’s Adventures are permanently etched in my brain until it’s expiration date.
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Re: Our next podcast recording (28.5.19) - 371: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Stanshall »

(Nice post, man.)
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Re: Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge

Post by Simonsloth »

Thanks both of you. It took me a while to sum up and I think I may have even missed the deadline. I kept meaning to write something but didn’t know what to say or how to articulate it properly.
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