The Nintendo news and discussion thread

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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chase210
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by chase210 » July 12th, 2019, 10:18 pm

I already have Hellblade on PS4 but I wouldn’t mind the switch version. Only £12 something through the South African store.

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Alex79uk
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Alex79uk » July 19th, 2019, 2:48 pm

Is the first Metroid game on the NES still worth playing? I've read such wildly varying reviews (mostly from a modern point of view). I've never played a Metroid game for longer than a few hours, although I do like the MetroidVania (yeah, MetroidVania, deal with it!) genre. Just wondered if it was worth seeing where it all started? Or, should I skip the NES entirely and go straight to Super Metroid on the SNES? Ta!

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KSubzero1000
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by KSubzero1000 » July 19th, 2019, 2:58 pm

Zero Mission is a remake of the first game and is the superior title in every respect in my opinion. Either ZM or SM are probably the best entry points when it comes to 2D Metroid.

The first one is hard to get into: password save system, no in-game map, stiff animations... That sort of thing.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by ratsoalbion » July 19th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Although on Switch you can save anywhere, rewind etc.

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Alex79uk
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Alex79uk » July 19th, 2019, 3:34 pm

Yeah that's what I was thinking! Save scum my way through it more than likely, haha.

Hmm I didn't realise Zero Mission was a remake of the first game. I'm sure I played some of that on GBA back in the day without realising so. Interesting. I'll give the old one a try on Switch first and if it's impenetrable I'll give Zero Mission a whirl. Thanks :)

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Suits » July 19th, 2019, 4:01 pm

Yeah, Zero Mission is stunning.

Super Metroid is brilliant but flawed by its stupid frame perfect requirement for Samus’ spin and wall jump - for me anyway. The music, art and story are so incredibly captivating though. Wonderful game.

Metroid is well worth a go on the Switch, as Leon says the save and rewind features make it so much more accessible - what have you got to lose ??


I’m going to play Zero Mission again.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion threa

Post by Flabyo » July 19th, 2019, 4:30 pm

Like a lot of NES games I find the original Metroid is useful to play if your primary interest is in history of the medium, but if you want to actually skip to something that plays as well as a modern take you’re better skipping to at least the SNES versions.

I find a lot of nes and Master System stuff way harder going than Megadrive and SNES games if it’s not a game I’m already familiar with. (There are exceptions of course, super Mario is super Mario after all...)

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Stanshall » July 19th, 2019, 5:29 pm

I'd say that aside from SMB1-3, I find the NES games either unplayable or unable to hold my interest for more than a few minutes.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by clippa » July 19th, 2019, 5:59 pm

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. One day people will be saying something similar about us. Poor grandpa nes, it comes to us all.
There's probably a handful of other games that still hold up, but yeah, the nes has had it's day, the games are definitely feeling creaky now.
Loads of the 16 bit era still holds up really well, but nes is starting to feel ancient by comparison. Amazing how far that generational leap was!

As much as I love the first zelda, I remember getting stuck a lot. I persevered because it was like one of 3 games I had to play (and even that I borrowed off a friend), but folk nowadays wouldn't stand for any of that crap, even with the internet being full of pages telling you what to do.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Alex79uk » July 19th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Thanks all. Yeah Stan, I'd have to agree unfortunately. The idea of 40 odd NES games on my Switch seems so cool, but a lot of them are virtually unplayable. Even the first Super Mario suffers I think, I had to persevere to get through it. SMB 3 is still excellent though, as is the first Zelda. Hoping Metroid at least swings a little more in that direction. The thing I struggle with the most with a lot of these NES games is there's no point to playing them. Of course there's a point, it's fun (debatable), but without a story or at least clear goals a lot of games fall down for me as I really need something to aim for. Mario has no story of note of course, but that a whole different level of fun which makes up for it. But stuff like Balloon Fight and Ice Climber, whilst they're fun for five minutes I soon get bored of them and have no drive to keep playing. And I'm really not complaining though, as a piece of gaming history I really love what they've done and its almost always worth giving each one a go for a bit at least.

Apologies for what was a total steam of consciousness post there, had no idea of where it was going - just kept typing!

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clippa
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by clippa » July 19th, 2019, 6:26 pm

It all made perfect sense!
I'm the type of bozo who skips all the cutscenes and story bits in games. The more arcady a game, the better for me, but even those sorts of games on the nes, they're usually lacking in a lot of ways, especially the speed. The hardware just wasn't up to the task most of the time.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by KissMammal » July 19th, 2019, 6:38 pm

Alex79uk wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 6:01 pm
Thanks all. Yeah Stan, I'd have to agree unfortunately. The idea of 40 odd NES games on my Switch seems so cool, but a lot of them are virtually unplayable. Even the first Super Mario suffers I think, I had to persevere to get through it. SMB 3 is still excellent though, as is the first Zelda. Hoping Metroid at least swings a little more in that direction. The thing I struggle with the most with a lot of these NES games is there's no point to playing them. Of course there's a point, it's fun (debatable), but without a story or at least clear goals a lot of games fall down for me as I really need something to aim for. Mario has no story of note of course, but that a whole different level of fun which makes up for it. But stuff like Balloon Fight and Ice Climber, whilst they're fun for five minutes I soon get bored of them and have no drive to keep playing. And I'm really not complaining though, as a piece of gaming history I really love what they've done and its almost always worth giving each one a go for a bit at least.

Apologies for what was a total steam of consciousness post there, had no idea of where it was going - just kept typing!
I can see where you're coming from, and it's why I never bought a NES Classic despite adoring my SNES Classic. It's probably down to my particular age, but as far as I'm concerned the 16 bit generation is when gaming really came of age - ie when developers started making games primarily for the home experience and not the arcade experience, and started making games that you could really get your teeth into vs a blast of exciting - but ultimately rather disposable - fun.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Alex79uk » July 19th, 2019, 7:27 pm

Yeah same here, never owned a NES as a kid, in fact I've never even played on one, as in the original hardware, as far as I know. We had an Amstrad and Master System, but as you say it was the 16 bit era that really got its hooks in me. I can pretty much pinpoint Flashback on the Megadrive as the pivotal moment for me realising games could be so much more than just arcade fun.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by clippa » July 19th, 2019, 7:48 pm

I had the cracked version on the amiga that was all in french so I don't know if I missed anything important. I remember it being very "show, don't tell" like another world though.
Man, that game was so good. Did anyone play the smelly remake/reboot? Heard really bad things about that.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by ratsoalbion » July 19th, 2019, 8:22 pm

Yes, I completed it for review and thought it deeply mediocre (at best). Literally no reason to play it when you can get the original on current gen platforms (or just emulate it).

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KissMammal
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by KissMammal » July 19th, 2019, 8:44 pm

The original/remaster of Flashback is on sale right now on Switch (in the US eshop at least). $5.99 i think.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by ratsoalbion » July 19th, 2019, 9:22 pm

Yes, also on sale on PSN.

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Michiel K
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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Michiel K » July 20th, 2019, 10:19 am

I know that I shouldn’t let other people’s experiences and opinions affect my own, but reading this last page makes me feel a bit sad. :(

I was playing a bunch of NES games on the original console and the Wii Virtual Console the past week and having a grand time. My boy and me especially enjoyed playing Balloon Fight side by side and playing through the full length of Kickle Cubicle was a real pleasure. Then reading that people agree that the majority of the library is virtually unplayable and that these games have had their best time when coming high off my own experiences is a bit of an unexpected downer.

Maybe a major issue is Nintendo’s oddball subscription service vs. the likes of PS Plus and GWG. Somehow this has led to the whole NES era of gaming coming under fire by a lot of people. And like I was saying to Leon before, going back to 8-bit games made before their time just isn’t for everyone. But to me, good games are good games, regardless of when they were made.

I remember seeing a horridly ignorant video on YT titled ‘BAD GAME DESIGN: NES games’. People often talk about games of the 80s as if they prefaced actual thoughtful design, but don’t realise a lot of the ground work was laid back then. As we highlighted on the Mega Man show, even a fairly rough and unfriendly game like the original Mega Man had a lot of thought put into its enemy formations and patterns (as opposed to what you would see in bedroom coded home computer games of the time). It’s just that the designers expected more of the players and consumers expected more challenge, longevity and investment out of the limited packaged lines of code they purchased.

The original Metroid is much like the original Zelda: you were going into uncharted territory and maybe you even drew out your own maps while playing through them. Now, as someone who 100%ed the original Metroid back in the 80s, I would say that even for me the game is tough to return to and has some real issues, such as tile sets that keep on repeating and having to grind for energy refills, but you might argue that Zero Mission went a bit too far in holding your hand, losing the sense of mystique and unknown danger that the original had.

I don’t know, or maybe I’m just old. :(

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Suits » July 20th, 2019, 11:00 am

Michiel K wrote:
July 20th, 2019, 10:19 am
I don’t know, or maybe I’m just old. :(
I don't think so man, I agree with you.

We've all had this discussion before on old games, such as the NES games on the Switch.

I do however recognise people criticisms of them and agree that they valid, I just come out on the other side of the fence.

It's cool, not everything is for everyone forever.

If I told you Nintendo had a new release of over 30 NES games, with some special remixed versions of Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Nija Gaiden and others, with save states and rewind feature built in - for £20, would anyone be interested ??

I think that sounds like a hell of a deal.

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Re: The Nintendo news and discussion thread

Post by Stanshall » July 20th, 2019, 11:59 am

Michiel, I don't mean to be a buzz kill but from a pure single player perspective, I find most of the games too simplistic and stiff when I go back. If I were playing on the couch with someone else, though, I think some of these would still have plenty to offer.

I remember going on a school French exchange when I was 12 and couldn't really speak any French and my exchange partner couldn't really speak any English so we communicated almost entirely through NES Volleyball for about two days. This was a great bonding and we were soon out risking life and limb on his scooter and smoking ciggies and chatting up French girls in his town and we ended up having a brilliant week. I returned home a MAN (kind of) and I can put it down to NES Volleyball. Twenty-seven years later, I was so excited to fire it up and relive some of those memories and I quickly realised that I should have left it as a memory.

I would add Zelda to my list of games which stand up well, but I'd say it's still a few rungs below SMB1-3. An amazing achievement and I have the best memories of figuring stuff out with my brothers and hearing tips and secrets from mates' older brothers or neighbours and stuff like that, so I feel like I got the very best of it at the right time, but much of it is pretty obtuse now.

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