Shmups

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Joshihatsumitsu
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Re: Shmups

Post by Joshihatsumitsu »

SaiDaiOuJou is definitely a generous package, and the inclusion of the novice/360 modes makes it a more welcoming entry to new players. And I can't remember if it's this game or Resurrection/DaiFukkatsu that has an unlockable where the ships basically pilot themselves. I may have enabled that a few times just to earn in-game currency for the in-game shop... set it up, come back in 20 minutes, unlock more... it's lazy but it works!

In between coats of paint on the cabinet I've been firing up my Neo Geo cab, and playing short sessions of Viewpoint (courtesy of the 161-1 cart). If ever there was a game that needed an Arcade Achives-styled re-release, it would be Viewpoint. The difficulty stems more from the isometric perspective, but once you've played a few times, and memorised patterns (you know, the same-old-same-old), then progress is totally possible.

Its a good game for short sessions, though I question the accuracy of this particular emulation, as there's a section in the first level where some slowdown occurs, and I can't find information that confirms that it was in the original version. The Megadrive version suffered technical hiccups, but I'm unsure about the Neo Geo/SNK one.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

My interest is piqued.

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ThirdDrawing
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Re: Shmups

Post by ThirdDrawing »

I picked up Battle Garegga on Play Asia recently, and MAN I suck.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Nice! That's pretty beastly. I really like it but I've never really clicked with it in terms of scoring strategy.

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

Post by Michiel K »

ThirdDrawing wrote:
March 29th, 2019, 5:13 pm
I picked up Battle Garegga on Play Asia recently, and MAN I suck.
Try a more relaxed playing style. Shoot only when absolutely necessary, don't grab too many medals and power ups and be conservative with your bomb uses. You'll find the game will go easier on you.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

clippa wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 8:28 pm
Stanshall wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 10:38 am
I really like it but I've never really clicked with it in terms of scoring strategy.
Yeah, I can see it being a bit marmite. Scoring mechanics are quite opaque and I think I remember you digging the way it looked and sounded, but I could see that being a turn off for some people.
I think being crap at it doesn't especially help but yeah, I really like the superficial elements and the gameplay is fun, it just didn't quite get under my skin like Rolling Gunner has (and even Devil Engine after putting a good few hours into it). I like the upgrade system, though I don't totally get it, and I enjoy all the little secrets, I'm just not great at chaining the levels or knowing how and when to bomb, etc. I feel like we've talked about that side of it before. I think I'm probably just more keen on the bullet hellish side of things, in the end.

And on that note, while I still wait for Futari to arrive from Japan I've been hammering Espgaluda 2 BL which seems very very accessible and pushes the biggest most obvious buttons with all the giant font bullet cancels and big numbers and chirpy tunes and bright greens and pinks and the like. Really lovely game on every level, easy to pick up, rewarding, no pig hybrid peephole stuff so I don't need to worry about my wife walking in. Can't wait for Futari, though. I must have watched that STG Weekly ten times. "If you're going to go, go all the way..."

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

clippa wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 11:09 pm
I bought some red wine for a treat and it's fizzy. Absolute heathens.
I never drink wine and even I know that's complete heresy. :x

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Nice one! Wish my Futari had turned up from Japan as quickly. Feel like it's been lost on the way.

Not played Rolling Gunner for a little while and still learning how to score on stage two but I reckon my stage one score is a good un: 57.78m

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with it.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Any thoughts on R-Type Final 2 that was announced earlier this week and turned out not to be an April Fools joke after all?

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion »

I’m interested, although I’d almost rather a comprehensive collection of the series with HD versions of Delta and Final.

In the absence of that though...

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Re: Rolling Gunner. I'm still struggling to work out when best to hyper and double hyper on stage two. Seems there are relatively few superplays out there (and this only says something about the paucity of decent vids, but I've not seen any reach my stage one score) and so it's still very much trial and error. I feel like it's all about those giant red tanks after the midboss. I can do the stage two boss pretty consistently but struggle to score well off it.

Meanwhile, I've been playing the holy hell out of Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu. I played it on Steam last year and found it overly busy and ugly and I also was in the exploratory phase of trying (and credit feeding) loads of shmups which isn't the best way to appreciate, well, anything. I've been making decent progress with the genre over the last six months though and I got straight up to the stage four boss on DFK and doing pretty OK with it. I'm still figuring out the bees and trying some basic chaining strategies but not been studying any vids or anything. It seems really complicated, to be honest, and beyond my conscious appreciation at this point while I play for survival. It's quite a garish DDP game compared to the militaristic grit of the original and DOJ but I like its psychedelic mayhem next to the glossy aquamarine sheen of Saidaioujou. I also think it's got some really interesting slightly weird ideas like those purple rotating beams. For whatever reason, I'm finding it to have tons of personality and the patterns are absolutely gorgeous. Really satisfying and distinct. I would warmly recommend it, alongside the Cave issue of The Cane and Rinse Podcast!

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Stanshall wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 1:58 pm
Meanwhile, I've been playing the holy hell out of Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu.
That one is called Resurrection in english, correct? Is it... dubious in any way? I'm considering buying the 360 version considering it's 20€ but I don't want to get any culture shock again.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Sorry about that with Shikhondo, by the way. I should have mentioned when I was praising it for its aesthetic. I thought at the time that you meant there were some gory elements but I can't quite remember if you actually meant the anime girl kind of thing.

If that's what you're referring to, Shikhondo is mild compared to Daifukkatsu/Resurrection which goes a step further with the 'elemental dolls' stuff. You can turn it off by changing the background to some spaceship or whatever but the front end features anime type doll characters. I wish there were a way to turn it all off completely but once you skip past the main menu, it might as well not exist I guess. It's much milder than SaiDaiOuJou which is a great game but all that stuff is, yeah, culture shock is a diplomatic way to put it.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Stanshall wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 3:06 pm
Sorry about that with Shikhondo, by the way. I should have mentioned when I was praising it for its aesthetic. I thought at the time that you meant there were some gory elements but I can't quite remember if you actually meant the anime girl kind of thing.
Ah, it's water under the bridge. No big deal. I still have Shikhondo installed, I just can't really find the motivation to boot it up again because of this stuff and the gameplay isn't quite top tier enough to look past it.

I think I'll pass on Dodonpachi for now. Thanks for the heads-up.

But you know I'm curious about the genre, so if you can think of any good example of the type of CAVE bullet hell shooter you're so fond of nowadays that doesn't veer into Sleazytown, preferably on EU PS4 or Switch , let me know and I'll look into it. :)


EDIT: Oh hey, have you played this one?


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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Unfortunately, there are very few. Rolling Gunner, when it eventually comes to the EU has a very Cave sensibility in terms of gameplay and the aesthetic is generic spaceship stuff. That's a brilliant game. I'd say Akai Katana is a great shout. It has some anime aesthetic elements but pretty much zero sleaze. I have to be honest, I also find the aesthetic really unnecessary and slightly uncomfortable but the games themselves are like nothing else, so I just skip past whatever bits I don't like. It is frustrating, though, I genuinely don't see how this is more of a selling point than a dissuasive element.

Ketsui was released on PS4 but only on the Japanese PSN. That's a very metal militaristic thing, amazing gameplay and music. It was recently voted best shmup of all time on the Shmups forum's annual vote. That's very very good even if not my favourite. Dangun Feveron is another Cave game ported to Japanese PSN but I don't really like it. It has a goofy disco aesthetic, just not my thing.

If you have anything that can emulate FB Alpha (even something on the level of an Amazon Fire Stick), you can play Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi Daioujou which are the absolute best and no gross stuff at all. Likewise, you've got Progear, Esp.Ra.De and Espgaluda on FB Alpha. All fantastic.

Mushihimesama Futari is another on 360. It's a bit anime girly on the artwork but in-game there's very little. That said, I'd suggest watching a video of gameplay to judge your own likely tolerance. That's amazing in terms of gameplay.

Edit: Ghost Blade HD is decent. Very Cave-lite in terms of the spectacle and mechanics but it's a good effort.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Okay, I currently have Psyvariar Delta , Vasara Collection, R-Type Final / Final 2, Rolling Gunner and Devil Engine on my to-buy list. That should keep me occupied for the foreseeable future, together with the few I already own of course.

I've heard great things about Mushihimesama Futari, but it seems to be eeeever so slightly above my skill level, not to mention the exorbitant going rates for the physical import copies. Maybe one day?

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Plenty of good stuff ahead there, mate! I got Futari for just under £40 recently which is pricey but could be a lot worse.

If I were to recommend, I'd say Rolling Gunner and Psyvariar over Devil Engine. On balance, Psyvariar is probably more special/thrilling than anything else there but it's a rather particular thing.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

clippa wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 9:10 pm
I just play for survival though really
Legend has it as soon as you even utter the word "Survival", Stanshall just automatically ghosts you for three months straight, I'm afraid. ;)

clippa wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 9:10 pm
Give Neko Navy a go on the switch, owly, you'll like that, it's got cats in it. It has an easy mode for easing you in gently.
There's easy and then there's sedative. I'm not that bad at shmups.

Looks cute, though.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Haha, I'm a total noob compared to clippa, seriously.

It definitely depends on the game, though. I've little interest in going through Rolling Gunner because the scoring is so satisfying when it clicks. I'm still only able to get to stage 4 boss playing for survival and I just don't get as much out of the game as when figuring out the timings to maximise hypers and bullet cancelling and collecting medals and all that stuff. Was similar with Ikaruga, actually. I just realised that after 25 hours on stage one, I didn't have the life force (or skill) to do that for stage two.

Playing proper bullet hell stuff, though, like DDP DFK/Resurrection today, I'm more than happy with playing for survival with some casual attempt at chaining along the way. I was very pleased to get a 16k chain (hyper sends the chain through the roof) on stage 3 of that game but it was largely just from no missing the stage (numerous flukey dodges) and there being an absolute tonne of enemies all the time. I'm playing to get through it, first and foremost, and that goes for anything Cave, really. I did go through a phase of trying to chain DDP DOJ stage one but it's so so hard. Maybe I'll go back after a few months and see how I get on with more practice with these games.

Here's a brilliant Stunfest 2018 live demonstration with commentary on Dodonpachi Daioujou White Label, on that note. I won't tell you how it goes but it's an absolute lesson and utterly thrilling:



Run begins at 23:30 with the opening twenty minutes explaining the scoring and mechanics and variations between White Label, Black Label et al.

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Joshihatsumitsu
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Re: Shmups

Post by Joshihatsumitsu »

The thing to keep in mind, in regards to difficulty, is most of these games will have varying difficulty settings.

There's a very good reason the 360 ports of pretty much all the Cave releases have a Novice mode: it's almost like it was intentional, as if they wanted as many people as possible to enjoy their output?!? :roll:

There'll always be the gatekeepers who feel offended that you're not as hardcore and pure as they are. But really, who cares about those people? Play for the sheer joy of playing.

The best thing about the M2 Shot Triggers releases isn't just the attention to detail, and fidelity to the original software: it's all the extras. There are other modes which are much more inviting and fun, and mix things up.

And really... it wouldn't have been included in the final package if it wasn't considered a legitimate way to play.

It's not by accident that difficulty sliders are in games, it's by design. Embrace it, and don't be put off by naysayer's.

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