Shmups

[ratsoalbion]

Super Mario Sunshine’s is the last troublesome Nintendo 3D camera that I can remember, and that was seventeen years ago.

The camera in Odyssey is pretty much flawless in my opinion, as was Galaxy’s, near as dammit. They’ve long since nailed this.

[KSubzero1000]

Super Mario Sunshine’s is the last troublesome Nintendo 3D camera that I can remember, and that was seventeen years ago.

Yes, and even then, I would argue that Sunshine's camera is still several leagues above those of the majority of non-Nintendo 3D platformers. Then again, I seem to struggle less than most players with so-called "bad cameras"...

[hazeredmist]

Steredenn is probably the best traditional shmup roguelite so far, I'd say, despite them fucking up the controls so badly, the game was still great fun to play until you looped the game and realised just how much the controls hold the game back from greatness.

I think this is supposed to be getting discounted on Switch, it's still £11.99 at the moment though. I fancy it. What's wrong with the controls though?

[KSubzero1000]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the game was optimized for full 360 degrees analogue input which works perfectly well on an analogue stick but doesn't translate well to an arcade stick due to the latter's four-way digital architecture?

For what it's worth, I played a little bit of the PS4 version (with my DS4), and I didn't have any issue with the controls. But I don't have any arcade stick to compare it to...

[ratsoalbion]

It’s why many fighters have a specific stick/controller toggle option, yeah. Shame not so many shmups don’t do the same, when relevant.

I think some do though, so worth checking the controller options.

[KSubzero1000]

Yes, the game was built and balanced around the analogue controls, but because the game gets increasingly harder the more you loop it, eventually analogue control isn't precise enough and just won't cut it.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

There is a reason why modern shmups don't use analogue controls despite all modern consoles having analogue sticks, it isn't out of some daft, misguided sense of tradition.

I could be wrong of course, but I was under the impression that most twin-stick shooters like Resogun, Nex Machina and AAC used full analogue movement controls. Even after hundreds of hours playing these games, I never got the sense that they were based on an 8-way digital control setup. And they function perfectly well, even against the dense bullet curtains of higher difficulties. Am I mistaken on this?

[ratsoalbion]

I'm sure that console first, PS4 twin stick games like Resogun and Nex Machina - as well as Assault Android Cactus et al - were absolutely designed with the Dual Shock analogues in mind, and optimised as such. Certainly feels that way to me.

[Alex79]

I was looking in to whether I could get my Madcatz fight stick for PS3 working on either PS4 or Switch, but neither seem viable which is a shame. Would love to be able to play some of the shmups in my collection with that thing.

EDIT: Seems there's a £40 adapter for Switch actually, but I was hoping for a cheaper fix!

[KSubzero1000]

I'm sure that console first, PS4 twin stick games like Resogun and Nex Machina - as well as Assault Android Cactus et al - were absolutely designed with the Dual Shock analogues in mind, and optimised as such. Certainly feels that way to me.

Yeah.

I actually started doubting myself so I just looked up some footage on YouTube - you can sometimes clearly see the ship moving steadily in a direction other than the usual 8-way, which would be impossible using digital input.

But clippa is right in the sense that virtually every PC shmup I've played is based on digital controls, and for good reason. It definitely makes a difference in terms of responsiveness.

[hazeredmist]

I was looking in to whether I could get my Madcatz fight stick for PS3 working on either PS4 or Switch, but neither seem viable which is a shame. Would love to be able to play some of the shmups in my collection with that thing.

EDIT: Seems there's a £40 adapter for Switch actually, but I was hoping for a cheaper fix!

I've got this, it's brilliant IMO and should work with a PS3 / PS4 stick on your Switch https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DCh ... CDo&adurl=

[hazeredmist]

Oh yeah if Steredenn is analogue control, I'm totally put off... Difficulty, roguelite elements, none of that puts me off. If a shmup doesn't work well with my stick, I'm not interested in it to be honest. It's why I've got no interest in Ikaruga, as I read it's got analogue control, for example.

[ratsoalbion]

A new Aleste game is in development at M2:
https://wireframe.raspberrypi.org/featu ... ment-at-m2

[Alex79]

I was looking in to whether I could get my Madcatz fight stick for PS3 working on either PS4 or Switch, but neither seem viable which is a shame. Would love to be able to play some of the shmups in my collection with that thing.

EDIT: Seems there's a £40 adapter for Switch actually, but I was hoping for a cheaper fix!

I've got this, it's brilliant IMO and should work with a PS3 / PS4 stick on your Switch https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DCh ... CDo&adurl=

Looks cool for pads, but my stick is wired

[hazeredmist]

I was looking in to whether I could get my Madcatz fight stick for PS3 working on either PS4 or Switch, but neither seem viable which is a shame. Would love to be able to play some of the shmups in my collection with that thing.

EDIT: Seems there's a £40 adapter for Switch actually, but I was hoping for a cheaper fix!

I've got this, it's brilliant IMO and should work with a PS3 / PS4 stick on your Switch https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DCh ... CDo&adurl=

Looks cool for pads, but my stick is wired

So is mine! it works with wired, mate

[Alex79]

Oh sorry I thought it was just a Bluetooth dongle! Ah OK cool - thanks!

[hazeredmist]

Yeah mins is a PS4/PS3 USB arcade stick, works a treat. The fact it can do wireless is a bonus - you can use wireless Playstation / Xbox / Wii U pads with it but I've only used it with the arcade stick so far. I've not noticed any lag at all, it seems perfect to me but then I'd wager you need to either be an e-sports pro or have your Switch hooked up to NASA technology and work for Digital Foundry to notice even if there is any.

[KSubzero1000]

It's why I've got no interest in Ikaruga, as I read it's got analogue control, for example.

Okay, so I just booted up my PS4 to verify myself instead of blindly trusting whatever is written on GameFAQs.

Steredenn has full analogue controls with 360 degrees angle movement and adjustable speed depending on how far the analogue stick is being pushed. Basically the exact same thing as Resogun, which I also verified.

Ikaruga on the other hand has textbook digital controls and the ship only ever moves in the conventional 8-way fashion at a constant speed level, just like Ghost Blade or BWR which I immediately compared it to. It should be perfectly compatible with your arcade stick just like the rest of your games.

Additionally, I could find several pictures of dedicated Ikaruga arcade cabinets, such as:



&



So I'm afraid whoever told you this has been feeding you fake info.

[hazeredmist]

So I'm afraid whoever told you this has been feeding you fake info.

Well...

The 360 and steam ports of ikaruga added analogue control. I think the switch version is based on the pc port so aye, you might want to stick with a pad on that, especially if that's how you've learned the game.

And yeah, definitely analogue controls on the Switch version of Ikaruga which now makes me feel a bit like I've not played it as was intended. Too late though, I can never go back!

BREAKING: OWLY LAUNCHES SCATHING ATTACK ON CLIPPA & STANSHALL'S INTEGRITY

[KSubzero1000]

Well, I could not find any analogue / digital control switch in the settings or anything. It's all digital on my end. So I'd be curious to see everybody's receipts on this one.

[KSubzero1000]

My info is legit. The digital controls are still there, they just added analogue controls for the folk who wanted them. I don't think there is an option to choose between digital or analogue if you're playing with an analogue stick though.

Okay, so how come I only have digital input even when using the analogue stick, then??