Shmups

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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Alex79uk
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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

hazeredmist wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Yeah, this is wank. It feels like some kid knocked it up while watching Netflix. Dull as fuck. Uninspiring enemies. Empty backdrops. It feels so budget it hurts. It makes Overdriven feel like Crimzon Clover. Unsatisfying and I get why Ksub references Sky Forces now too.

Even at £1.69 it’s a waste of cash. I wish I’d listened to you guys. This is the last time, I promise 😂
Well I'm tempted out of sheer morbid curiosity now. Going to give it a try!

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Personally, I'm not trying to gatekeep or to prevent anybody from getting into these games. In fact, I'm more than happy to see curious forumites pop in every once in a while and give the one or other beginner-friendly game a shot. The more the merrier and I think it's important to respect players of all skill and engagement levels.

All I'm saying is that playing traditional shmups on a touchpad is the equivalent of playing darts while wearing boxing gloves. It's never going to work properly and whoever is claiming otherwise is either severely misinformed or straight up lying to you.

It's not the fault of the players, it's the fault of whoever tried to make a quick buck out of bastardizing these games and didn't mind misleading the public in the process.


Purism should be about preserving the integrity of something you love, not about making people feel bad. But I also think it's okay to call foul when certain lines are being crossed for the wrong reasons.


PS: R-Type 2 looks a bit slow for me, but I'm sure it'll have its fans.

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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion »

clippa wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 1:43 pm


"Captain! Enemy fire at 12 o'clock! by my calculations that laser is set to hit us within the next week, I recommend changing course by Thursday at the latest."

The shit munchers and prodslab jockeys are going to go absolutely wild in the aisles for this turkey.

I'm liking the new snarky gatekeeper vibe this thread has taken. It's not our final form, I'm sure, but I'm feeling like a proper bad ass, might put some shades on later.
I’m really not. Turn it down please. You may think you’re being humorous but it doesn’t come across well.

This place is not going to become another shmups forum, or any elitist, exclusive place the likes of which you can find anywhere else on the internet.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

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clippa wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 2:45 pm
Adding aim assist, making the hit boxes bigger and the bullets magnetic is the very definition of bastardising the genre.
It's not that simple because not all shooters are created equal. It depends on what platform an individual game was originally developed on. I agree that playing a PC-centric FPS like Half-Life or CounterStrike with a controller is an inadequate and unfulfilling experience. But a game like Halo that is meant to be a console game through and through is a completely different case. It's similar to playing Resogun with an analogue stick - if it's been designed around that input method from the ground up, it's all good in my book.

I don't know how much personal experience you have with console shooters, but another thing worth mentioning is that they're not all PC ports and that they don't all have aim assist either. Vanquish for example (even though it's a TPS) plays like an absolute dream on controller even without aim assist, afaik. Let's not throw all the babies out with the bathwater.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

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clippa wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 3:08 pm
You're OK with aka to blue? Specifically designed with touch controls in mind?
First time I've heard of it, but I think that's perfectly fine. The movement and patterns in the video appear to be completely centered around touch controls, so that's totally okay in my book.

I guess my problem is less with any specific platform(s) and more with half-baked ports that don't seem to understand the intricacies of the material they're dealing with, let's put it that way.

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Alex79uk
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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

KSubzero1000 wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 2:10 pm
All I'm saying is that playing traditional shmups on a touchpad is the equivalent of playing darts while wearing boxing gloves. It's never going to work properly and whoever is claiming otherwise is either severely misinformed or straight up lying to you.
I've played a few. The iPhone had loads of Cave shooters available years ago, I remember playing Bug Princess among others. You generally get to choose between on screen joystick or 'draw a line with your finger' type controls. Both, as you would expect, are equally shit. It really is absolutely pointless playing these games on a phone. Even now, on Android, there are dozens of 'good quality' shmups available. Danmaku Unlimited 2, for example, was free the other day. I downloaded it just to give it a try. Game was great, but again, totally pointless trying to play it on a touch screen. About the only reason I can think any of these would be worth trying is literally to see if you like the style, but then you might as well just check YouTube and watch it running anyway. But each to their own I guess, hopefully it might inspire people to check out the 'regular' versions of the games.

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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

clippa wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 3:05 pm
R-type looks slow and dull to me
Well it might not bear much resemblance to the modern bullet hell shooters you're used to playing, but it's a fantastic game. Hard as nails and the powerups are amazing. Love that game, and remember it's 32 years old!

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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

clippa wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 9:44 pm
I'm saying nowt. I'll be the one who gets my wrists slapped either way. I'm a good girl.
It's ok not to like something. It's the three paragraphs of superfluous, hyperactive gibberish afterwards that spoils any valid point you might be trying to make.

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Re: Shmups

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hazeredmist wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 8:16 am
Been playing Earth Defence Force on the SNES, courtesy of Nintendo Online. Neko Navy 1cc mateyboy chose it as the retro game challenge this week. Old school shmup, graphically pretty bland but somehow reminds me a little of Rolling Gunner, not sure why. It's gnarly at first, takes a bit of getting used to with bullets that aren't easy to see but it's a lot more palatable when you choose decent weapons. I can only get to level 2 right now. I will keep plugging away! Anyone else played it?
Continued with this, I hope I have a reasonable chance of winning... Did pretty well last night with some repetition, I think it's comfortably my favourite old school (not Cave-style) shmup now! Enjoying it a lot. I can now get to Stage 3 in one credit which seemed impossible just a day earlier. I recommend those with Nintendo Online give this one a go.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist »

Alex79uk wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 8:45 am
hazeredmist wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Yeah, this is wank. It feels like some kid knocked it up while watching Netflix. Dull as fuck. Uninspiring enemies. Empty backdrops. It feels so budget it hurts. It makes Overdriven feel like Crimzon Clover. Unsatisfying and I get why Ksub references Sky Forces now too.

Even at £1.69 it’s a waste of cash. I wish I’d listened to you guys. This is the last time, I promise 😂
Well I'm tempted out of sheer morbid curiosity now. Going to give it a try!
:lol: I'm going to go back to it at some point to try and get this platinum trophy Ksub got in ten minutes... Obviously my experience was quite different with my skill level. I have 40% of the trophies after two goes, and didn't complete it. Mind you, I'm not convinced I like playing shmups on the Vita, none of the ones I've played on it have felt particularly satisfying (FullBlast, Fast Striker, Soldner-X 2). It could be the sticks, but then I enjoy Resogun on Vita a lot... So it's probably the games not gelling well with me.

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Re: Shmups

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clippa wrote:
September 13th, 2019, 12:26 am
That r-type kickstarter hit it's goal in record time and there's people who don't really play shmups excited for it.
I was making a point that maybe a big name and reputation are more important to your casual gamer than quality, though of course, it's all subjective.
Very much so. And very relative. I mean, if we take the wider accepted meaning of a casual gamer (i.e. someone that might play something popular on their phone and not give it much thought, is befuddled by the thought of critical analysis of games and media and discussion of games surrounding it), I'm not even sure they even heard of R-Type. You'd have to know a thing or two about video games and their history to even know what an R-Type is.

When we did the podcast on R-Type we even had criticism from someone who's by any means not a casual gamer and who's very deep into video games that we just assumed the listener knew what R-Type is and who had to look the game up on YouTube, because we didn't offer any description.

I think R-Type is the shit, by the way. A true giant and milestone of the genre. Love it or hate it (like Ikaruga), but it stands out and doesn't play very much like anything else, except for the games it has influenced directly (which is of course why, as you say, it can't be a real catch-all ambassador of the genre). In the podcast, we also go into why it doesn't really deserve its rep as a pure memoriser, that there is way more room for tactics and that you get more leeway and time to react to hazards than many give it credit for.

Not much of a fan of the first R-Type Final. We'll see how this one pans out.

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist »

FullBlast - new assessment

Played this again today with the boy watching me and whooping & cheering (I don’t usually get away with that) using clippa’s farm machinery which makes a huge difference.

It is very easy. It is a very easy platinum (I got it after 5 levels lol) and it’s bland, same environments and music. I smash through levels without getting hit. But I don’t care whatsoever if it’s baby’s first shmup because it was fun! And the budget vibe is endearing somehow. I’m gonna finish it fully (still got a few levels left) and probably do it on Vita too.

Arcade stick makes a world of difference to any shmup man, as long as the ship feels good to fly & shoot, and it does in this. Decent upgrade system too. Pretty shocked I’m coming back and saying this tbh but what the hell, playing it today with the boy has made me feel good. Woo!

Also I played Rolling Gunner for the first time in ages last night, reminding me just how incredible that game is in every way. Anyone who hasn’t got it, you’re missing out!

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Alex79uk
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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

Yeah I played some of that Full Blast this morning. I didn't really like it. It wasn't offensively bad, just boring. I only played a couple of levels and got about six trophies!

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Re: Shmups

Post by Alex79uk »

Did they say which platforms? I enjoyed the bit of Death Smiles 1 I played on MAME. It's the one where you can fire left and right, yeah?

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

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I'm here. Just a bit busy on my end and don't have too much time to spend on the forum, otherwise I would have gladly taken the dumb laptop bait this morning.

Had another go on DDPR earlier today and I'm simply not getting anywhere. The scoring system is really opaque, sometimes I get a huge combo at the end of a level that doesn't translate into proper points. I reached the final boss a couple times by now but don't have anything to show for it, unfortunately.

Deathsmiles is low rent X-rated basura, I have absolutely zero interest in it when CAVE have so many superior games that need to be ported first. I'd rather play FullBlast again, tbh. :P

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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

I'm gutted that of all the games they could have chosen to port, they went with...Deathsmiles 2.

Not inherently total shit but the fact that they doubled down on the moe crap and also made the ugliest Cave game ever slightly smarts.

That mobile game they showed was total shit as well.

I will buy all of the above day one.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist »

I won the Super EDF score challenge! I’m dining out on this one baby

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

Nice work, champ! I still gotta give it a proper go, seems tough.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

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Aye they’re not massively into shmups in the group but a couple of them are credentialed ahead of me I reckon. We’ve had the likes of Soldier Blade, Super R Type etc and I’ve never came close to their scores. Considering EDF felt absolute nails at first I’m pleasantly surprised.

I haven’t played Deathsmiles 2, but the first one I really like - having played Rolling Gunner first you can tell there are similarities. The art might put some off but it doesn’t bother me honestly, I’m all about the mechanics and it feels great to play to me. I’m gonna smash the steam game when I get some time.

As for DFK, it’s definitely not been fucked off but I’m struggling for solo time with my laptop and arcade stick. Also I played it a bit and can’t get near my high score anymore which seems odd. I don’t really understand the scoring either. It’s a lot of fun though. I will get more out of novice mode tbh

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist »

I played some more Fast Striker on Vita too which has a great trance soundtrack. It’s old in feel, a Dreamcast / Neo Geo port (albeit posthumous for those consoles) and lacking in glitz & glamour but it’s got something. Has anyone else played it?

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