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Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 8:25 am
by Michiel K
I'd love to be part of a Gradius series CaR episode or two.

Yeah, Gaiden is great, glad you're loving it so much, Stanshall. I used to play it on Taito Legends 2, but last year Howard "HeviMetaru" Van der Wal brought me the Saturn disc as a prezzie from Japan. Playing the game in native, non-upscaled resolution, with non-compressed audio enriched it a great deal and made me appreciate it ever so much.

One thing that always use to get me is the series' traditional ranking / dynamic difficulty system, with boss HP increasing the more powered up you are. So even if you spit out white hot electric laser death and wipe stages clear, the bosses will take you just as long to take down. The trick in at least Gaiden (don't know about the others) is that you can mash the fire button like crazy to significantly increase your fire rate, to help out there... or use a turbo controller (ever a controversial topic among top players of the game).

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 8:52 am
by hazeredmist
See, I'm tempted by the Konami Arcade Classics now... It got panned somewhat but for shmups it looks pretty decent? And I saw somewhere it's supposed to be getting Japanese versions added in a forthcoming update.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 10:20 am
by Stanshall
Michiel K wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 8:25 am
One thing that always use to get me is the series' traditional ranking / dynamic difficulty system, with boss HP increasing the more powered up you are. So even if you spit out white hot electric laser death and wipe stages clear, the bosses will take you just as long to take down. The trick in at least Gaiden (don't know about the others) is that you can mash the fire button like crazy to significantly increase your fire rate, to help out there... or use a turbo controller (ever a controversial topic among top players of the game).
Interesting stuff! That explains a lot, too. I did wonder because a couple of runs where I was seriously powered up, I got absolutely destroyed by the same boss, Fat Glutton or something! It seemed like a massive difficulty spike so I've since tried to avoid that route.

For info, this release has customisable turbo fire with the choice of different rates of fire on different buttons! Pretty cool, though I've not figured out yet why you wouldn't go for 30x speed.

Sounds like a very nice gift by the way, I'd love to give Gaiden a go on an authentic set-up. I'll have to settle for emulated scan lines for now!
hazeredmist wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 8:52 am
See, I'm tempted by the Konami Arcade Classics now... It got panned somewhat but for shmups it looks pretty decent? And I saw somewhere it's supposed to be getting Japanese versions added in a forthcoming update.
I think it got a lukewarm response because of features deemed 'missing' due to expectations, rather than the quality of the games or ports. Anyway, the TATE update is live and the JPN variants are also coming soon. I'd also say that a couple of the titles are much less appealing. The Castlevania game, for example, is, in my professional opinion, shit. Scramble is a little basic. Twinbee doesn't hold massive appeal to me. The other five are well worth the money, though, with Vulcan Venture and Lifeforce both absolutely brilliant.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 12:01 pm
by hazeredmist
Lads - if I clock Neko Navy on Easy mode pathetically with loads of shan embarrassing deaths can I brag about it? Or is there a proper code with shmups where you haven't really clocked it unless you smash the hardest mode with "1cc"? I want to give this a serious go tonight. Realistically any 1cc or higher difficulty stuff is quite some way off.

@clippa - your run looked great on that Neptunia. you got skills!

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 1:17 pm
by Michiel K
^^^^ If it feels like you broke through a threshold, I'd say it's worth a celebration!

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 4:59 pm
by KSubzero1000
hazeredmist wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 12:01 pm
Lads - if I clock Neko Navy on Easy mode pathetically with loads of shan embarrassing deaths can I brag about it? Or is there a proper code with shmups where you haven't really clocked it unless you smash the hardest mode with "1cc"? I want to give this a serious go tonight. Realistically any 1cc or higher difficulty stuff is quite some way off.
There is no code as far as I'm concerned. Maybe on elitist forums, but not here. If you put a lot of effort into something and achieve a result you feel happy about, that's something to be celebrated no matter your current (!) skill level. Games like these are difficult enough on their own, I'll be damned if we start making each other feel like garbage on top of that.

Neko Navy on Easy is as worthy a challenge as any other. Go for it! :)


PS: Also, I bought Psyvariar!
Spoiler: show
...The PS2 Complete Edition.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 24th, 2019, 10:55 pm
by hazeredmist
Aye I was a fool to think this was getting beaten tonight on easy mode. Can’t clear Stage 5, the boss filled me in, three runs in a row and it feels like stupid mistakes are costing me lives. I don’t quite have the twitch movements I see in these 1cc clears - Still it’s very enjoyable and I’ll keep coming back, made definite progress. Last time I hadn’t even reached the Day 5 boss

Summary: easy mode is still a damn tough challenge if you’re not chiselled to fuck with shmups, so I’m not feeling any insecurity sitting at the table with you big lads, I can still sort of converse here. It has made me realise how easy Overdriven Reloaded was, that’s for sure.

BUT I’M LOVING IT. Neko Navy is my clear favourite shmup so far now. It just feels so fun. One day I’ll beat it

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 2:36 am
by Joshihatsumitsu
Stanshall wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 6:45 am
I got the Darius Cozmic Collection a couple of days ago and I've been enjoying it a lot. Absolutely delighted with it, to be honest, because it was a bit of a gamble and not especially cheap with postage and customs, etc...
Welcome to the Darius Cozmic Collection club!

One thing that makes purchases like that easier for me is:

1. I don't really buy AAA games anymore, so the money I'm not spending there can go elsewhere.
2. I'm happy knowing that my money is supporting companies and artists I like, rather than lining the pockets of people like Randy Pitchfork, Bobby Kotick, Andrew Wilson, Dan Houser, etc...

The move away from AAA is partly moral/ethical reasons, and just that I find the output uninspired, and I don't have to support/defend every aspect of gaming.

And realistically, regardless of personal reasons, me not spending money there isn't denting their bottom-line anyway.

So, yeah, buy Darius, and I know you're going to through more money M2's way later this year with ESP Ra.De., so support those people instead! I'm tempted to pick up both versions, simply to through money at M2.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 7:41 am
by Stanshall
Absolutely. I don't even particularly like ESP.Ra.De. but I'll be launching cash at them in the hope of more Cave ports.

In terms of where my 'support'/investment goes, I have been more selective this year for similar reasons. I've largely swerved the indie stuff as well as the AAA because I find there's a lot of homogeneity at both ends of the spectrum. I picked up Katana Zero, for example, but it's basically a collection of well-worn tropes. Fundamentally decent stuff but rather more style than substance. Aside from that, I've skipped pretty much all the FOTM stuff this year. Sekiro is probably the only AAA game I've bought and I really loved it in the end but little else has appealed.

Overall, by far the most fun I've had is discovering and rediscovering the 360 shmups and I continue to be excited about the simple prospect of turning the console on.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 7:42 am
by KSubzero1000
hazeredmist wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 10:55 pm
Can’t clear Stage 5, the boss filled me in, three runs in a row and it feels like stupid mistakes are costing me lives. I don’t quite have the twitch movements I see in these 1cc clears
It'll come with time as you become more accustomed to the game's systems and exact input needed to avoid projectiles.

One other thing worth mentioning is that you shouldn't be comparing your average performance to other people's best. Superplay videos usually represent the very peak of somebody' dedication towards a singular goal and they don't show the mountains of repeated failures that have led to the end result. The one I shared a few days ago is only 4 minutes long, but there was an entire week's worth of retries, rage quits, cramped paws and every dumb mistake imaginable behind it. Murphy's Law is real.

You'll get better with time, I promise.

If you ask me, perseverance is what makes or breaks a highscore. Or any achievement, really. Skill is secondary.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 7:48 am
by hazeredmist
Good to know Ksub, cheers!

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 9:40 am
by KSubzero1000
Sorry, I meant talons. Simple mistake, nothing to see here.

Speaking of beating your scores, have you decided whether or not to fight back yet? Like a wise man once said:
clippa wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 7:36 pm
be brave now so your future self doesn't have to be braver.
:P

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 9:49 am
by KSubzero1000
I haven't touched the game. The goalposts remain un-shifted. Just wondering if you're still in the race.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 10:54 am
by KSubzero1000
clippa wrote:
May 25th, 2019, 10:18 am
Did you never hear the story of the tortoise and the hare? The one about the preening owl and the valiant donkey is even better!
Hihihihi, it's all in good fun man! :lol:

Good to know you haven't given up, in any case.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 1:32 pm
by KSubzero1000
I've been a staunch console and handheld-only player my whole life. Never had much of an interest in PC gaming, which I've always considered too obtuse, tech-centric and unintuitive for my tastes. Crysis came and went and only elicited a scoff and an eye roll from me while the entire gaming world was rolling around in its cubicle out of sheer ecstasy. I still don't know anything about processors or graphic chips or RAM or any of that stuff.

I'm currently legit considering making myself a GoG account just so I can play Crimzon Clover on my shitty laptop while waiting for my overpriced JP imports to arrive. Among other neat little games, but primarily for that. It looks a-ma-zing.

By this time last year, I was minding my own business, playing my silly character action nonsense and arguing with folks about 15 year old RE games. The world made sense. I was at peace with myself.

...What have you done to me, Stan? :mrgreen:

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 25th, 2019, 7:55 pm
by KSubzero1000
clippa wrote:
May 25th, 2019, 4:27 pm
it's coming together
Yay! :lol:

Does it still count as this super serious and resentful rivalry you like to pretend it is if I'm secretly rooting for you? I wouldn't want to ruin the... mystique.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 26th, 2019, 6:56 am
by KSubzero1000
Danmaku Unlimited 2 is pretty sweet, it turns out.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 26th, 2019, 9:37 am
by Stanshall
KSubzero1000 wrote:
May 25th, 2019, 1:32 pm
By this time last year, I was minding my own business, playing my silly character action nonsense and arguing with folks about 15 year old RE games. The world made sense. I was at peace with myself.

...What have you done to me, Stan? :mrgreen:
You can blame Arcade Club. If I'd never played Dodonpachi DaiOuJou there a year or two back, I'd now be replaying Dark Souls 2 for the eighteenth time wondering again whether I really liked games or just Souls games.

As it is, this has been one of my best ever years for gaming. I never would have thought I'd be buying an internal Xbox 360 HDD just so I could install the title update for Dodonpachi DaiOuJou Extra to reduce load times and fix a couple of bugs, but here I am.

The games I have played and most enjoyed this year which I see myself playing for as long as I play games:

Mushihimesama Futari Black Label
Ketsui X Mode
DDP DaiOuJou Extra
Muchi Muchi Pork
DDP Daifukkatsu BL Arrange (Ketsuipachi)
Mushihimesama HD
Espgaluda II BL
Raiden Fighters Aces
DDP SaiDaiOuJou 360 Mode
Darius Cozmic Collection
Konami Arcade Classics
Rolling Gunner
Progear no Arashi
Dodonpachi
Einhander
G-Darius (only just tried this via emulation on the 360 and it's glorious!)

And near the top of the list, OutRun 2!

It's almost wastefully decadent to have so much amazing stuff to play in such a short space of time but every time I sit down for some gaming, I'm utterly spoilt for choice and spoilt by the brilliance on offer. There's a lifetime of amazing games here.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 26th, 2019, 10:50 am
by KSubzero1000
DOUBLE
BREAK
MODE


In other news, it turns out my laptop only ever tanks the frame rate during the post-boss medal shower, which I think is exceedingly polite.

Re: Shmups

Posted: May 26th, 2019, 1:36 pm
by KSubzero1000
Well, I started with playing a lot of Resogun, Nex Machina and Assault Android Cactus back in 2016/2017. Last year I dove headfirst into Ikaruga, and now Ghost Blade. Those are the only ones I've ever put any significant amount of time into. It's not that many, really. Plus a few hours of DU2, Crimzon Clover, Shikhondo and Dariusburst Chronicles each and mere minutes on numerous others.

If we're putting the Housemarque games under the broader shmup umbrella, then I think that, pound for pound, Nex Machina is probably my favorite of the bunch for its fantastic presentation and encounter/stage design alone. Its scoring system is pretty basic however, and mostly relying on strict memorization, which isn't the most exciting concept. I'm torn on Resogun because I think it has a very flawed multiplier mechanic in its Arcade mode but is a much improved overall experience in Survival.

Speaking purely in terms of scoring systems... I'm not sure, honestly. I like Ikaruga's a lot for how incredibly precise and demanding it is, but it also runs into the same issue of dry memorization at times. Ghost Blade's is pretty flawed with how obtuse and loose it can be sometimes (being too close to the ship or approaching it from the slightly wrong angle, that sort of thing). It's not bad per se, but it could easily be improved upon in a potential sequel.

I'll have to sink some more time into Crimzon Clover and familiarize myself with its systems in order to come up with a conclusive answer, because it appears to have a lot under the hood. A few more hours with a proper grazing shmup like Psyvariar or any of the Danmaku Unlimited games would be nice as well. To be continued!