Shmups

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall » June 10th, 2019, 2:39 pm

I think it's a good game, but just a bit stiff and mechanical and subdued next to the Cave stuff it's trying to emulate. It doesn't have anywhere near the same flair or sense of spectacle, and that's before you get into the scoring systems and balance. I also find the graphical style pretty generic and while it's very readable, individual elements seem to stick out, rather than form part of the whole. To my eyes, anyway.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Jeez. I just read a thread on the shmups forum on Ghost Blade HD, i have a query that's troubling me slightly now:

Is "the wider shmup community" outside of this wonderful thread / forum full of elitist wankers?

There are people on there saying they like the game, only to be shot down by some arrogant tosser - as if to say how could you ever possibly enjoy a game we have decided doesn't meet our standards - which is the kind of bullshit I can only laugh at these days. Some hate for the dev as well. How dare they make this game. People even genuinely asked why, and got no reply. You're just supposed to dislike Hucast by default apparently.

Honestly, people like that need their heads examined - it's sad that when people get into this genre and do a search online that they may end up in places like that, with people mangling your head spitting bile. Which could turn impressionable folk. Yeuch.

I enjoy Ghost Blade HD thank you very much 8-)

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 10th, 2019, 3:15 pm

As a rule of thumb, roughly 95% of the wider internet gaming community outside of this wonderful forum is full of wankers, elitist and otherwise. And I'm probably being generous. It's unfortunate, yeah. Like you said, this type of behavior is bound to be really off-putting for someone just getting into the genre (or anything else, really) and looking for a friendly community to be a part of.

Confronting people over the internet accomplishes very little, so I think it's best to just ignore this kind of stuff altogether.

hazeredmist wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 3:00 pm
I enjoy Ghost Blade HD thank you very much 8-)
casul skum 8-)

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion » June 10th, 2019, 4:08 pm

Haze, that is precisely the sort of discourse we were trying to get away from with both the podcast and the forum here.

I think we’ve largely succeeded so far, and though it may have cost us some wider popularity, it also seems to appeal to good people who are sick of the grim normality that is games discussion elsewhere. Even outlets that post progressive and unbiased content are plagued by cancerous comments and responses.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall » June 10th, 2019, 4:15 pm

I find the shmups forum sometimes useful as a resource but it's a bit hard to engage with, in my experience. I follow a few decent folks from there on Twitter and have the odd little chat, some encouraging feedback and stuff, but fundamentally it's not that open to beginners. I have more meaningful interaction on Twitter which is saying something.

I suppose they've had enough conversations about Futari or whatever over the years and then some, so not many people are excited by another discussion about it. That's normal. I'm on a couple of band forums and while five years ago I might have made a big effort to welcome someone raving about just finding such and such record, unless I'm in the mood I'm more interested now in looking forward rather than recycling an old conversation.

That's a separate point, though.

One of the first shmups I got into was Danmaku Unlimited 3 and I really loved it. I still think it's a lot of fun and I fire it up once in a while to try for a somewhat casual 1CC. It's not as good as the absolute best of the genre, but does that make it shit and me a dummy? Absolutely not, at least not for that reason. I really like and respect the fact that this thread is full of people having a great time with a range of games. Clippa especially is always celebrating some new PC indie whatsit and while I'm not likely to play them unless they get a port, I respect the enthusiasm for the wider genre not just the C A V E B O Y Z mentality which, to be honest, is a little bit where I'm at, I know.

To offer a little mea culpa, I would like to say that I'm still pretty new to the genre and I've been dreaming of playing these Japanese 360 games for about a year and so I've basically OD'd on the absolute top tier shit for the last couple of months and it's so good I don't know whether I'm coming or going half the time. I'm trying to keep my mind open though and dip into the lesser known or just not as directly relevant to my tastes stuff and it's actually been brilliant. The Darius Cozmic Collection and Konami Arcade Classics collection have both been an education and a hell of a lot of fun, where I found those games annoying and slow and harsh for the longest time. Likewise, something like DariusBurst Chronicle Saviours took some investment before I started to get into it but I enjoy it more every time I fire it up. It would be quite easy to think 'I know what I like best, I just want more of that exact thing' and it's possible I'll end up with that mindset, and I suspect that's part of the elitism you read out there. Once you try everything and find what you like best, it's tough not to narrow your horizons and stay wide eyed.

Anyway, we got you covered here, man. Glad you're enjoying it!

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 6:33 pm

Aye, I’ve been active here for many years now and am not really active elsewhere and haven’t been for some time - it’s clear to see why. I guess visiting another larger but more hardcore genre-specific gaming forum and seeing an immediately obvious tonal shift - talking about the same thing - makes you realise you are somewhat insulated from things at C&R. Which I like. A lot.

It’s a little part of the internet which isn’t ruined :)

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall » June 10th, 2019, 6:45 pm

Amen to that!

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 10th, 2019, 6:50 pm

Give me a chance, I just got here.

Yeah the shmups forum is teeming with absolute bell cheeses, I just don't get good vibes from that place at all, it's very unfriendly and nobody really seems to like playing these games either. It's weird.

Some lovely people there too, of course, you get that on lots of cunty forums, a nice little pocket of good folk that keep you visiting, but, eeesh, I do read it from time to time but I have to steal myself to post there. I just feel like there are a hundred eyes watching, waiting for me to trip up.
For being the biggest shmup forum on the net, they're surprisingly out of touch with the latest news too, they're normally at least a few days, sometimes weeks behind.

Very unwelcoming to new players and posters. It's like the grumpy old mans home in the shmupverse.

The shmups reddit is lovely, I think I've only seen a couple of tits on there, though it's not very active and reddit's not really good for having conversations on.

I know resetera gets a bad rap for whatever reason but their shmup thread is pretty chill. I don't really post there often, but everyone seems really nice and laid back and it moves at a manageable pace unlike the rest of the forum, you fart and there are fifty new threads about marios eyebrows. Once a forum gets too popular, it's just unusable, it's like walking around a loud bustling city centre and whispering your opinion into the wind.

Aye, there's no place like home, you won't leave me, will you, 'arold? You've got everything you need right here.

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 8:56 pm

Image

Woo! Small wins here but that’s a level done without losing a life, must be a first as it’s unlocked a trophy

Watch out lads, I’m coming. I’m waddling, dragging an anvil behind me, but it’s happening

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 9:04 pm

clippa wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 6:50 pm
Give me a chance, I just got here.

Yeah the shmups forum is teeming with absolute bell cheeses, I just don't get good vibes from that place at all, it's very unfriendly and nobody really seems to like playing these games either. It's weird.

Some lovely people there too, of course, you get that on lots of cunty forums, a nice little pocket of good folk that keep you visiting, but, eeesh, I do read it from time to time but I have to steal myself to post there. I just feel like there are a hundred eyes watching, waiting for me to trip up.
For being the biggest shmup forum on the net, they're surprisingly out of touch with the latest news too, they're normally at least a few days, sometimes weeks behind.

Very unwelcoming to new players and posters. It's like the grumpy old mans home in the shmupverse.

The shmups reddit is lovely, I think I've only seen a couple of tits on there, though it's not very active and reddit's not really good for having conversations on.

I know resetera gets a bad rap for whatever reason but their shmup thread is pretty chill. I don't really post there often, but everyone seems really nice and laid back and it moves at a manageable pace unlike the rest of the forum, you fart and there are fifty new threads about marios eyebrows. Once a forum gets too popular, it's just unusable, it's like walking around a loud bustling city centre and whispering your opinion into the wind.

Aye, there's no place like home, you won't leave me, will you, 'arold? You've got everything you need right here.

Great post here, by the way. Sums it all up nicely. I’m not suggesting for one minute they’re all cunts but there is a joyless arrogance about the vibe that will certainly keep me from checking it out more.

Rllmuk doesn’t seem half as bad (some familiar faces there which was nice!) but again, I join a thread literally called “Giantbomb Fan Club” and think oh nice, let’s see what people are discussing here, and it’s basically everyone completely character assassinating hosts of the podcasts post after post, like you say clippa waiting for them to trip up and fucking lapping up any error or goofy opinion. It was mental to read, page after page of it, people whining and bitching. I had to stop reading it.

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion » June 10th, 2019, 9:10 pm

That's why, even though I'm told generally people say nice things about us, I don't go seeking out games podcast threads on forums!
:D

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 9:28 pm

Yep, for the best. You’ve got a wonderful community here and none of that rubbish to worry about :)

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 10th, 2019, 9:46 pm

In other news:

Image

Buzzing! Overdriven Reloaded was the first, but that game didn’t send you back to the start when you lost all your credits (in Story mode at least) so this feels like much more of a milestone. Plus the first stick clear :) This game is quite forgiving on easy with how it dishes out bombs etc compared to say Neko Navy so I’m under no illusions, but it still feels significant to me.

I think I’m starting to “get” looking for patterns in the massive bullet sprays a bit more now, far more practice needed and still a lot of times where I get into situations where I feel helpless and can’t avoid death - but they’re getting slightly less frequent, I think.

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 10th, 2019, 11:49 pm

Yeeees! Nice one, man! I can remember that feeling, deathsmiles was my first 1cc and I can remember whooping with delight!

When I finally managed to twat that dinosaur devil, I had the biggest beaming smile on my face. I was 1,888th on the 360 scoreboards but I didn't care at all.
hazeredmist wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:04 pm
Rllmuk
To be fair to rllmuk, they're at least self aware and proudly wear the "second cuntiest forum on the internet" badge with honour. Some journalist or blogger (more likely) described it as that, I don't know what the first was, maybe some granny punchers hangout on the darkweb or something.

Again, some lovely, interesting people there, but they're stifled and vastly outnumbered by the majority of ill informed, bickering dullards. I used to post there and pretty much everyone I liked was either bullied off the forum or ended up sanding down their interesting edges to fit in and just became another clone poster.

When Stanshall turned up, that was the only thing that kept me posting to be honest, I was done with the place but I liked reading his posts so much, I made sure I voted him up when he did a funny or said something I knew they'd all disagree with because I'd seen it happen so often to other people, that was always how it went, someone would downvote a joke or a point and because they're all about extremes and drama and they're gamers so they just plain like to see the numbers going up, they'd pile on, then the poster would lose their confidence and be all dry and boring to fit in or just leave the forum with their tail between their legs.
Pretty much everyone I liked ended up leaving eventually.

There's a particularly nasty ingrained culture of safety in numbers bullying on there, and an utter aversion to any sort of subtle and nuanced discourse.
Threads rarely got 3 or 4 pages in before they'd decended into a "black or white", "yes or no", "pick a team!" headbutting slanging match.

There was a thread for Ricky Gervaises Life's Too Short at the time and I was being civil, critiquing the show. Some guy asked me to PM him my address as he was going to send someone round to beat me up. Calling me a sad bastard and saying "If you didn't laugh, fuck off and die. Watch My Family or Red Dwarf instead."
I thought he was kidding at first, it was so over the top! It's a very dark, strange place, lots of bad energy floating about, you can feel your soul shriveling just being there. It seemed to bring out the worst in everyone. I often wondered if a lot of them weren't always like that, maybe they'd just been there too long and it had warped them.
I joined up on a whim one day after seeing it mentioned in an episode of consolevania and I was like "Oh, that looks like a nice place to discuss my hobby, talk about computer games with other folk", I didn't realise I was entering the very bowels of hell!

To be fair I got away with posting unhindered for 3 years or so before they all decided one day that I was next in line for the rllmuk treatment, and it's perhaps unfair to single them out, there are a lot of wierd places on the internet and it's a very personal experience, I'm sure a lot of people post there for a long time and never have a bad experience.

I wish I knew about this place a long time ago, I saw stanshall mention the podcast in a thread on there and found they had a forum and it's bliss! Could do with some more posters, but I suppose you should be careful what you wish for, there might be a mass migration! :o

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Re: Shmups

Post by shadowless_kick » June 11th, 2019, 2:50 am

I too spent some time on the shmups forums in the past before reaching the same conclusions everyone here has already mentioned. it's a surprisingly joyless place for a site dedicated to video games. most of the posters there are real-life Comic Book Guys from The Simpsons—embodying the ugliest nerd stereotypes. I pop in occassionally to see if there's any news on releases, but I never stay long. anyway, moving on...

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 11th, 2019, 4:24 am

hazeredmist wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:46 pm
I think I’m starting to “get” looking for patterns in the massive bullet sprays a bit more now
Heeey, Congrats! :trumpet:

Well done, man. I think the next thing you'll learn will be when and where to use the Focus Shot. As I'm sure you've noticed, it is as much a defensive tool as an offensive one thanks to its reduced movement speed that allows for greater precision when squeezing through bullet curtains.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 11th, 2019, 7:10 am

clippa wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 11:49 pm
There was a thread for Ricky Gervaises Life's Too Short at the time and I was being civil, critiquing the show. Some guy asked me to PM him my address as he was going to send someone round to beat me up. Calling me a sad bastard and saying "If you didn't laugh, fuck off and die. Watch My Family or Red Dwarf instead."
I thought he was kidding at first, it was so over the top! It's a very dark, strange place, lots of bad energy floating about, you can feel your soul shriveling just being there. It seemed to bring out the worst in everyone. I often wondered if a lot of them weren't always like that, maybe they'd just been there too long and it had warped them.
I joined up on a whim one day after seeing it mentioned in an episode of consolevania and I was like "Oh, that looks like a nice place to discuss my hobby, talk about computer games with other folk", I didn't realise I was entering the very bowels of hell!
Jesus. That's crazy. That type of nonsense can really get to some people, online bullying. Glad you've come away from that stuff and recognise it for what it is now... This place couldn't be more removed. I had a look only because I heard the TCGS guys mentioning it all the time... And I saw Stanshall there :D

I don't really care about numbers to be honest, things don't get lost in reams of drivel here and everyone seems so nice and friendly. Differing opinions, but we don't offer each other outside like brainless keyboard warriors.

Good god. even talking about this is winding me up about how shitty the internet can be and wanting to protect my offspring from it.

I'll take the C&R branded blue pill, please.

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

Post by Michiel K » June 11th, 2019, 8:28 am

clippa wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 2:07 am

Dear me, your voice is like sonic gusset lubricant! It must be like a dog whistle for bitches in heat as I only had it on low in my headphones but could hear the frustrated, middle aged, middle englander housewife next door grinding herself against the fireplace, slapping herself around the face and shouting something about a hard brexit.
I ummm... yo, what?

RE: the shmups forum, one peculiar thing I don't get is also that people seem to fanboy rally around one particular developer and style of 2D shooter. There's someone on there that's only about Psikyo and thinks anything Cave is disgusting garbage, there are indeed C A V E B O Y S that play nothing else and there's even someone there that has chosen to preach the ways of Milestone and I'm not even sure if he has played anything by said company.

The place is full of great resources, yeah, and even some helpful and more open minded folk, but some of the most vocal members can't seem to fathom that there is room for multiple design philosophies and that people have different criteria for enjoying things and look for different things in the video games they choose to play. Don't get me started on that 'Full Extent of the Jam' guide by Icarus, Stanshall. :lol: "If you don't play DoDonPachi on MAME with a keyboard and save states and exactly replicate someone else's super plays, you're just an asshole, dude!"

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 11th, 2019, 12:22 pm

Oh god, yeah, I can think of nothing more boring than watching a replay of someone else and replicating it.
Playing a new game, figuring out the mechanics and finding your own strategies and stuff, that's half the fun, surely!

Using save states to practise the bits you're not good at. I mean, it makes sense if you're going for a world record and you want to save time, but it just sounds like homework to me.
It seems like a very cold, logical approach to playing games where "gitting gud" is prioritised over everything else. It should be a natural thing that occurs while you're having fun, you shouldn't try to force it or fast track it.

Momoiro Underground has been renamed to "Dezatopia" and is coming to the switch and pc

https://twitter.com/Hanaji/status/1138414746586079233

Image

Glad I held off importing that now as I'm assuming this will be available digital for a nicer price and fix some of the exploits.

Also, it wasn't a port of mecha ritz they were working on, it was actually a port of the stg builder engine!

https://twitter.com/Hanaji/status/1138414793977606145

Image

This is excellent news for switch shmuppers. Many great indie games can now easily be brought to the switch!

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

Post by Michiel K » June 11th, 2019, 6:21 pm

clippa wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 12:22 pm
Playing a new game, figuring out the mechanics and finding your own strategies and stuff, that's half the fun, surely!

Using save states to practise the bits you're not good at. I mean, it makes sense if you're going for a world record and you want to save time, but it just sounds like homework to me.
It seems like a very cold, logical approach to playing games where "gitting gud" is prioritised over everything else. It should be a natural thing that occurs while you're having fun, you shouldn't try to force it or fast track it.
Couldn't agree more!

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