Shmups

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 12th, 2019, 6:30 am

I have a query for shmup boffins... Can anyone identify the music in this podcast at 57:15 https://soundcloud.com/user-306325657/e ... mupception

It's brilliant! Reminds me a little of Leftfield's Afrika Shox but hugely souped up with arcade / 90's VGM loveliness. I have to identify it...

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 12th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Oh also: I had some WOW moments last night! A lot of them.

After some research into what are considered classic shmups, I set up my somewhat dormant raspberry pi, to see what the fuss was all about. Synced up my glorious pink stick which took seconds (mmm) and then jumped into the MAME folder. Turns out I've had these sat for years and had no idea. Dodonpachi, GigaWing, Tengai, Gunbird, fucking hell man!

The stick is so good, perfect for this setup. There is probably some minute input lag from stick to MAME a boffin could spot, but to me it feels tight and accurate, more than playable. I was actually quite overwhelmed by the volume of classic shmups suddenly revealed to be at my disposal so I resolved to make a list and play through them properly to avoid skimming.

I played all the way through Dodonpachi as the first choice, and now know what the big lads are saying when they say "CAVE style shmup" - I don't consider it a real completion as I used more credits than I could count to see the end, but it was a hell of a lot of fun. So much personality and it's actually quite stunning to me how modern these games feel. The version of Dodonpachi I played was from 1997 - despite the graphics not being 1080p or whatever, it felt every bit as modern as Ghost Blade HD for example. Very tough (clearly to sup all your quids) but hugely satisfying and "meaty" in feel. Timeless, clearly.

I feel head over heels with this genre, there is so much to play. The education is going to be fun methinks :D

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm

So, I decided to get Blue Revolver after all. I thought "Hey, clippa swears by it, there's a DRM-free version, it looks fun and it's comparatively cheap. I'm sure this'll be a wise investment."

:lol: :|

First time booting it up, the automatic tutorial turns into some unskippable blue screen of tech jargon error text. I have to force exit.

"Okay", I thought. "Maybe it didn't install properly. Let's try this again."

Second time booting it up, the exact same thing happens again.

Third time booting it up, I skip the tutorial and play for a couple of minutes. "Oh hey, this is nice." Only then the game decides to freeze and, because it absolutely had to go full screen without having the common courtesy of asking first, RENDERS MY ENTIRE LAPTOP UNRESPONSIVE FOR A GOOD 15 MINUTES. I can't exit normally. I can't force exit. I can't access Task Manager. I can't access power options. All I get is a static screen, some occasional distorted game music, and the inexorable spinning wheel of bullshit. My only recourse was to lull the beast to sleep, wake it back up and turn it off as soon as possible. "garbagegame.exe has stopped working." Yeah, no fucking shit, Sherlock. :twisted:

A good 25 minutes passed between the initial freeze and me being able to use my laptop normally again. This is unacceptable.

Oh, and to top it all off, it turns out that the OFFICIAL MICROSOFT DRIVER for the OFFICIAL XBOX 360 CONTROLLER somehow only recognizes LT and RT as an "axis" instead of buttons, which in practice means that I can't use either of them in any of my games. The closest "solution" I could find would be to download a third-party program whose purpose is to trick Windows into working properly. What in the fuck, Microsoft? It's your hardware and it's your software! You got all the money in the world but you can't make sure something this basic works as intended? I hope you crash in the stock market.

Screw all of this.

This right here is why I've tried for so long to resist going anywhere near this complete and utter joke of a "gaming platform". I can't believe so many people unironically prefer to have to deal with this junk over the quasi-universal convenience and reliability of dedicated hardware. I'd like to see my dusty PS2 have the nerve to try even a fraction of this nonsense. Insert game inside machine, turn on, play and relax. How hard can it be? I've half a mind to uninstall this basura right this second.

I'll have (much) happier news to report later on, I just wanted to get the nasty stuff out of the way first.


/rant over

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion » June 12th, 2019, 3:09 pm

I don’t know about the stuff relating to the game, but I’ve never had that issue with the triggers on any of the Xbox controllers I’ve hooked up to my PC.

In fact haven’t had any problems gaming on a PC for many years now (and I am a total ‘lamer’ when it comes to that stuff too).

I realise this isn’t helpful right now, but my experience of playing on PC for the past 7 years or so has been nothing like the bad old days of constant stresses and headaches.

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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 3:15 pm

ratsoalbion wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 3:09 pm
I realise this isn’t helpful right now, but my experience of playing on PC for the past 7 years or so has been nothing like the bad old days of constant stresses and headaches.
No it's fine, and it's obviously good to hear. I also think that if I had a proper rig and all the latest hardware and software updates, I probably wouldn't be running into all these issues. But man, this type of stress just gets under my skin. This is a late-PS1 level game. It should be able to run on a toaster without any complications.

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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion » June 12th, 2019, 3:37 pm

Yeah, true that.

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 12th, 2019, 3:38 pm

Ouch Ksub! You're right, that's just the kind of hassle I can't be arsed with when gaming... and I'm a techie! Last thing I want to be doing is fucking around with my PC when I've got rare leisure time.

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 12th, 2019, 4:37 pm

hazeredmist wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:30 am
I have a query for shmup boffins... Can anyone identify the music in this podcast at 57:15 https://soundcloud.com/user-306325657/e ... mupception
You've spelt buffoons wrong there.
I've no idea, I'm gonna say "one of the donpachis" and not just because there are like 50 of them, it sounds a bit royal jelly, regal and buzzy. Should I message the host on reddit and ask? He's very friendly, I've talked to him before.

Yeah, there are a load of great shmups you can play in mame. You're spoilt for choice.

spelt/spoilt? I like those better than spelled and spoiled, I'm sticking with it whether it's right or not.
KSubzero1000 wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm
Screw all of this.
Knew this would all be my fault. I picked the wrong day to quit smoking. I'll paypal you the money if you like, owly. I'm at least 50% to blame.

We could try a couple of things to get it playing nice, but it sounds like you just want to headbutt the walls for a bit at the minute.
See it as a future investment. You can try it again on your next pc, it'll probably just be your integrated graphics chip or something, some of those laptops aren't built with any sort of gaming in mind.

The triggers on a 360 pad are analogue and so are treat as an axis, the "z axis". Some games aren't set up properly so that the triggers can be assigned to be used as digital buttons but you could use joytokey to solve that problem without replacing the official driver.

and yes, you're right, if you were a pc gamer, you'd have all your drivers and stuff up to date and a slightly shinier toaster, consoles will force you to do all of those updates before you can play.
KSubzero1000 wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm
I'll have (much) happier news to report later on, I just wanted to get the nasty stuff out of the way first.
He's laid an egg with all the stress! It's a boy!

Try to forget about it all, ksub, water under the bridge. Looking forward to the good news!
hazeredmist wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 3:38 pm
Ouch Ksub! You're right, that's just the kind of hassle I can't be arsed with when gaming... and I'm a techie! Last thing I want to be doing is fucking around with my PC when I've got rare leisure time.
That raspberry pi you've been playing mame on is a pc. I'd just sling it in the bin if I were you, not worth the hassle Image

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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 5:07 pm

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:37 pm
I'll paypal you the money if you like, owly. I'm at least 50% to blame.
Bah, humbug. Got nothing to do with you. I'm not about to start demanding financial compensation from internet acquaintances every time I buy a dumb game I shouldn't have.
Spoiler: show
And if I were, Chopper probably owes me a fucking yacht by now. :P
Anyway, maybe something can be done to alleviate the issue. I'll make sure to jot down the exact error message next time it crashes, for example. Maybe you'll then know something or other that can be tinkered with.

It wouldn't be an issue if PC games came with a free mandatory compatibility test, you know. Just a button that tests whether or not your hardware / software can run the program without issue before buying. Instead of a shady download link and "haha good luck have fun btw no refund lol".

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the 30 seconds of uninterrupted playing that Father Sky and Mother Earth were magnanimous enough to grant me.

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:37 pm
The triggers on a 360 pad are analogue and so are treat as an axis, the "z axis". Some games aren't set up properly so that the triggers can be assigned to be used as digital buttons but you could use joytokey to solve that problem without replacing the official driver.
Yes, that's what my research indicates as well. I'm not sure the fault lies with individual games, however. When I go to Devices > 360 Controller for Windows > Game Controller Settings > Properties, I can see all the buttons listed, ranging from 1 to 10, and they all light up when pressed except for the triggers who aren't even listed. Re-calibrating doesn't help whatsoever. So it looks like the issue is on the driver / Windows side of things to me.

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:37 pm
He's laid an egg with all the stress! It's a boy!
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 12th, 2019, 5:38 pm

KSubzero1000 wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 5:07 pm
except for the triggers who aren't even listed.
Looks like this on mine.

Image

How old is the laptop? Is it possible that you might not have updated any drivers since before controllers had triggers?

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Yep, that's exactly what it looks like for me as well.

1 = A
2 = B
3 = X
4 = Y
5 = LB
6 = RB
7 = Back
8 = Start
9 = LS
10 = RS

But LT & RT don't correspond to anything. Which buttons light up on yours when pressing the triggers?

Laptop is from 2015, a whopping 10 years after the controller was first made available to the public. I uninstalled and reinstalled the official driver last week.

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 12th, 2019, 5:49 pm

The z axis bar at the top. Should go up the harder you push the right trigger and down with the left.

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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 5:51 pm

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 5:49 pm
The z axis bar at the top. Should go up the harder you push the right trigger and down with the left.
Yeah, that one doesn't move at all.

When I calibrate and get to the z axis section, it works perfectly well, however. Very strange.

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Chopper
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Re: Shmups

Post by Chopper » June 12th, 2019, 6:02 pm

KSubzero1000 wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm
I hope you crash in the stock market.
:lol:

Harsh.

Funny you should mention it, Ksub. I have this new game I'm very enthusiastic about and I you should definitely try out:
Spoiler: show
Image

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 12th, 2019, 6:02 pm

Do the triggers work in other games?
It could just be blue revolver, some guy here asking for the option to assign triggers here - https://steamcommunity.com/app/439490/d ... 9072589456

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 12th, 2019, 6:04 pm

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:37 pm
hazeredmist wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:30 am
I have a query for shmup boffins... Can anyone identify the music in this podcast at 57:15 https://soundcloud.com/user-306325657/e ... mupception
You've spelt buffoons wrong there.
I've no idea, I'm gonna say "one of the donpachis" and not just because there are like 50 of them, it sounds a bit royal jelly, regal and buzzy. Should I message the host on reddit and ask? He's very friendly, I've talked to him before.
hazeredmist wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 3:38 pm
Ouch Ksub! You're right, that's just the kind of hassle I can't be arsed with when gaming... and I'm a techie! Last thing I want to be doing is fucking around with my PC when I've got rare leisure time.
That raspberry pi you've been playing mame on is a pc. I'd just sling it in the bin if I were you, not worth the hassle Image
Yes please ask him if you’re acquainted- I’d really like to know ta!

RE the Pi - true, but I have it set up as it it were a console! Turn the bastard on, pick a game, play it. Turn the bastard off. No task manager, no command line, no drivers, nowt. It’s all there but it’s hidden. The blue pill man. Remember? :D

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 » June 12th, 2019, 6:06 pm

clippa wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Do the triggers work in other games?
Nope. And yet the controller works perfectly well on my 360. Like I said, I don't think it's the fault of the game. It's Windows screwing up.

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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall » June 12th, 2019, 6:09 pm

Chopper wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:02 pm
I have this new game I'm very enthusiastic about and I you should definitely try out:
Spoiler: show
Image
This sounds amazing. Can't wait to be in the nursing home with my VR on and playing Sailaway 2069 (yeah, I'm optimistic...) and having a nice cocktail before I go back to playing Futari.

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clippa
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Re: Shmups

Post by clippa » June 12th, 2019, 6:19 pm

hazeredmist wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:04 pm
Yes please ask him if you’re acquainted- I’d really like to know ta!
I spoke to him once, I'm not gonna be best man at his wedding or anything, but he was lovely. I don't imagine he'll scream at me to fuck off or anything, but give it time, he might be busy, he might not get back straight away, I'm just a little fishy.
OK, done.
Now we wait.

@Stanshall Yay, everything back to normal?

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Re: Shmups

Post by hazeredmist » June 12th, 2019, 6:27 pm

Shit yeah Stanshall hope your Xbox is fighting fit again!

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