Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Flabyo
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Flabyo »

Think of it in terms of how the rebuild of Evangelion movies worked. Cause that’s basically what they’ve done.

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Caligulas Horse
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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I'm still not sure where I'm at with this remake.

I think I'm fine with just ignoring it's existence for now, I'm not sure I need a remake of this game like I used to and I haven't really bothered with any FF game past 10 anyway. At the same time I almost feel like I'm obliged to give it a go, there's a younger version of me inside pulling his hair out in disbelief that I could pass up on the chance.

So I probably will give it a go eventually BUT if it turns out you can change the fate of a certain character, I'm going to roll my eyes so hard I'll lose my vision and have to give it up anyway.

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Stanshall
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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I really don't know why anyone would be bothered about what they do with the remake when the original still exists.

It's one of the very best AAA games I've played this gen, and while it has a number of flaws, its best moments have been some of my favourites in the last five years. It's also stunning and at times, it's the best looking game I've ever seen. The combat is superb. The music is overflowing with love for the original soundtrack as well as a playful spirit to mix things up. It's an absolute triumph, and if some people lose their shit, fuck em.

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Caligulas Horse
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Stanshall wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 11:03 am
I really don't know why anyone would be bothered about what they do with the remake when the original still exists.
Are you responding to me rolling my eyes?

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Mr Ixolite
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Stanshall wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 11:03 am
I really don't know why anyone would be bothered about what they do with the remake when the original still exists.

It's one of the very best AAA games I've played this gen, and while it has a number of flaws, its best moments have been some of my favourites in the last five years. It's also stunning and at times, it's the best looking game I've ever seen. The combat is superb. The music is overflowing with love for the original soundtrack as well as a playful spirit to mix things up. It's an absolute triumph, and if some people lose their shit, fuck em.
What about people coming to the game for the first time though? Like, I have a friend who never played the original, but held out for Remake in order to experience a classic story in a modernized form. He was really enjoying the game until the end, which he felt was frustrating, jarring and alienating, to the point he was put off the entire project. I don't think its fair to say "Fuck Him"; yes, the original is still there for him too, but then you're asking him to buy a totally seperate game on top of this one, an old game he had specifically not bought because he wanted a version with modern sensibilities.

As for where I stand on the matter, if they want to take the games story in a new direction I think they should've just written said story, and let whatever changes they make happen organically as opposed to...what they did. Make it new, but also self-contained as its own thing.

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Caligulas Horse
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Caligulas Horse »

Whether you're coming to it for the first time or have played the original game a thousand times you're obviously going to have negative or positive opinions on this one. Criticism is as valid as it is with any game.

Being "bothered" by it like actually angry about it's existence, feeling like they've ruined the original or cheated you in some way is a different thing entirely and I think maybe that's what Stanshall is on about?

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Mr Ixolite
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Oh yeah, the "We'll make a petition! Hashtagnotmy[product]" respons is always overkill, no matter the fandom. I'm just always wary of the opposite reaction where all negative criticism gets lumped together in order to be easily dismissed wholesale.

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Stanshall
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Stanshall »

Sorry, lads. I'm not in a great mood, I shouldn't have posted really. Carry on.

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Alex79uk
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Mr Ixolite wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 11:17 am
What about people coming to the game for the first time though? Like, I have a friend who never played the original, but held out for Remake in order to experience a classic story in a modernized form. He was really enjoying the game until the end, which he felt was frustrating, jarring and alienating, to the point he was put off the entire project. I don't think its fair to say "Fuck Him"; yes, the original is still there for him too, but then you're asking him to buy a totally seperate game on top of this one, an old game he had specifically not bought because he wanted a version with modern sensibilities.
I'm not really sure what you mean here. If he'd never played the original he doesn't really have any right to complain about any changes. Perhaps 'right' is the wrong word there, but I mean if he had nothing to compare it against he can't possibly be annoyed if the story isn't exactly the same, surely?

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Caligulas Horse
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Caligulas Horse »

Stanshall wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 1:01 pm
Sorry, lads. I'm not in a great mood, I shouldn't have posted really. Carry on.
No worries man, I didn't think you said anything out of order really.

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Mr Ixolite
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Alex79uk wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 1:37 pm
Mr Ixolite wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 11:17 am
What about people coming to the game for the first time though? Like, I have a friend who never played the original, but held out for Remake in order to experience a classic story in a modernized form. He was really enjoying the game until the end, which he felt was frustrating, jarring and alienating, to the point he was put off the entire project. I don't think its fair to say "Fuck Him"; yes, the original is still there for him too, but then you're asking him to buy a totally seperate game on top of this one, an old game he had specifically not bought because he wanted a version with modern sensibilities.
I'm not really sure what you mean here. If he'd never played the original he doesn't really have any right to complain about any changes. Perhaps 'right' is the wrong word there, but I mean if he had nothing to compare it against he can't possibly be annoyed if the story isn't exactly the same, surely?
I'm not sure you know what the ending entails so I'll keep it vague, but a big part of the issue is that rather than just being a different story,
Spoiler: show
the game makes being different from the original FFVII a part of the actual text of the story
, which clashes hard with the preceding game by design. Its unmistakable in its intent to throw the established fans for a loop, but if you're not an established fan it comes off as a confusing reference you're not in on.

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DomsBeard
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by DomsBeard »

I'm on chapter nine and the
Spoiler: show
Dance off in Honeybee Inn
had me in tears laughing. I want a final fantasy game based on this purely.

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Flabyo
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Flabyo »

I suspect I will have *opinions* once I get to the end, but as someone that enjoyed all the changes they’ve made over the years via the spinoff games, I suspect I’ll be ok with... whatever they’ve done.

Anyway. Here’s Dan Floyd taking a look at what a 23 year gap actually means when it comes to ‘how do you do an intro to a final fantasy game then?’. No spoilers in this, it’s literally a comparison of the intro sequence (and some clips that have been in all the trailers anyway)


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Nupraptor
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Nupraptor »

I agree with DomsBeard. That section was purely good fun for me.
The Wall Market section also has another one of my favourite moments in the game.
When I am explaining to people why I love the original so much, I often talk about the quirky sense of humour that the game has and as an example of that, I reference a particularly bizarre enemy that appears as a random encounter in the Train Graveyard section in the original game.
And you play a game like FFXV, which has it's moments, but is a bit po-faced at times, and you really can't imagine them including that enemy in a modern Final Fantasy game. But then you play THIS game and all the bizarreness and campness and fun is there and THAT enemy is there! And it is there as an incredible boss fight! And it was awesome and made me so happy to experience it.

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KissMammal
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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I really don't know why anyone would be bothered about what they do with the remake when the original still exists.
Erm, because the original (nice as it is to have) dramatically suffers from, among other things, being locked into some butt-ugly standard definition prerendered backgrounds and a really poor localisation….?

I honestly struggle to think of a single game more deserving of a faithful HD widescreen remaster than Final Fantasy VII, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wishing thats what we had got instead of… whatever Remake is (glad lots of people are enjoying it, but its not for me).

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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KissMammal wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 9:48 pm
I honestly struggle to think of a single game more deserving of a faithful HD widescreen remaster than Final Fantasy VII, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wishing thats what we had got instead of… whatever Remake is (glad lots of people are enjoying it, but its not for me).
...As a fellow "Where are my faithful HD remasters of my beloved low-res PS1 games"-person, I empathize. :)

(Although most of my FF7 fan friends both online and offline seem to really enjoy this game, so I'm happy for them at least.)

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Alex79uk »

*I would have loved to have seen the identical game with a fresh lick of paint, also*

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Mr Ixolite
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

Post by Mr Ixolite »

If they made a HD remaster of the original with a completely overhauled translation and skippable summon sequences I'd be more than happy.

Keep the LEGO men, they're great.

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KissMammal
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Mr Ixolite wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 10:25 am
If they made a HD remaster of the original with a completely overhauled translation and skippable summon sequences I'd be more than happy.

Keep the LEGO men, they're great.
The recent rerelease versions of FF7-10 allow you to fast forward by up to 3x at any time by clicking the left stick, which is pretty much an essential feature playing the game in 2020.

Agreed on the chibi designs of the characters - honestly I strongly dislike the quasi-realistic, Advent Children aesthetic of Remake - it just looks silly to me and robs these incredible character designs of all their charm and vitality. Reminds me of that photoreal Tin Tin movie from a few years ago in terms of (in my mind) really misguided, unimaginative art direction, whereas the original PS1 game has absolutely superb art direction that is unfortunately boxed in by crude polygons, horrible video compression and a 4:3 aspect ratio.

The translation is a big deal for me too - it was really eye-opening watching the Kotaku Lost in Translation series to see just how much the original translation got mangled. It wasn't just weird dialogue, entire characterisations seemed to get really misinterpreted in the version we got.

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BaileyBoy
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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake

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FF7 had a profound effect on me when it released in 1997. I was 11 years old and it sparked a love and fascination with Japanese media and culture that defined my early teenage years. Like many others it also opened my eyes to a genre that I'd overlooked in the 8/16 bit era. I wouldn't count it among the best games I've ever played, with hindsight it's a deeply flawed work with many better examples (in the genre) coming both before and after it's release. I would be hard pressed to recall a game that had a bigger impact on my life however.

As someone who still plays games from every era regularly, I'm usually fairly immune to nostalgia bating but there's something about this game, more so than any other that illicits an emotional response in me. On starting Remake, I had a lump in my throat at the title card FFS!

What followed was perhaps one of the most simultaneously impressive and frustrating experiences in my 30+ years of gaming.

There's genuinely brilliant stuff here, but for every good decision there's an equally bad one just around the corner. Incredible highs and terrible lows that balance out for a very average game overall that for me, didn't capture the essence of what made the original so special.

Graphically the game is stunning and the team have done a brilliant job of visually reimagining the world and characters in meticulous detail. It's a real spectacle, especially during cutscenes and it's incredible multi stage boss fights.

The music is also superb. Every rearrangement of the classic score is a winner and a genuine treat. The way different pieces are woven dynamically into gameplay and combat scenarios is wonderful. I did find that the new, original compositions lack the memorable melodies of the original score however.

Being able to experience the sights and sounds of this game in this level of fidelity was, ultimately worth the price of entry for me. Almost everything else was a real dissapointment.

The combat system while beautiful to look at, felt messy and imprecise. I understand why Square decided on a real time action system, turn based combat is a tough sell in the AAA market these days. But in trying to please both camps with it's hybrid system it ends up excelling at niether. It's action elements are not fundamentally sound enough to fully satisfy, RPG elements not deep enough for a rewarding tactical experience. If you're gonna make an action game, make an ACTION game, ya know?
A large focus on elemental weaknesses is also a misstep, making some encounters almost impossible on first try if you don't luck into having the correct setup.
Having large chunks of the game limited to two party members and a surprisingly low number of battles outside of unique boss encounters, robs the opportunity for meaningful experimenation with builds, mastery of the combat is also difficult when the playing field feels like it's changing every five minutes.

I also had major problems with the writing. It was always going to be a difficult task replicating the weird tonal whiplash of the original's dialogue but for me it just didn't translate well here. Localising Japanese RPGs is always hard but can be done well (Dragon Quest, Nier etc). The dialogue in Remake felt immature and unnatural, not helped by the weird, exaggerated body language. The original was hardly Shakespeare but there's something about experiencing it in this fidelity that feels especially cringe worthy and comical. There is a way to do this right, the Yakuza series for example manages to blend the super serious with the obsurd with great skill and more importantly, great writing.

The effort to pad the game out with mundane side quests has been widely discussed and I've nothing to add that hasn't been said. The degree to which they sap the pacing of the story is egregious though.

Then we come to this game's most contentious element in it's changes and additions to the story. I actually read the spoilers ahead of time and in theory I thought it sounded amazing! I loved the idea and the bravery of playing with the original narrative in such an interesting way. In practice though, I found almost every addition to be a borderline disaster.

When taking the story beats and set pieces of the original and thoughtfully updating and expanding them, this game is at it's absolute best.
Spoiler: show
Anything involving the new threat, the Whispers of Fate is genuinely terrible and robs the story of it's focus. The entire ending sequence is ludicrously bad, chock full of the special brand of incomprehensible, over the top nonsense that's come to define Square Enix's RPGs over the last fifteen years or so. Its exactly the kind of decision that has held this company back from making a genuine classic since the PS2 era.
It soured the ending of a game i was already pretty down on and dashed my hopes for improvements in future parts if this is indicative of where they plan to take the narrative.

I should say that I am genuinely pleased to see so many people enjoying this game, and if the reviews are anything to go by I'm certainly in the minority, but I can't help but feel disappointed in a game that I thought would have real impact for me. I guess it did, just not the one I was expecting ☹️

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