Favourites that have waned

[Combine Hunter]

I really love talking about design choices that have resulted in games that stand the test of time. Games like Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night are games that were released 20+ years ago, and yet I would have no problem recommending any them to someone today, because they still look, sound and feel great.

But the inverse of this, is we inevitably have favourites, that start to look lesser and lesser as time goes on. These aren't necessurily games we've stopped loving, but may have held in the absolute highest regard, only for them to slip out of the "Top Ten" or "Epic Shelf."

I'm curious to know, for whatever reason, what favourites or formative experiences of yours have waned upon revisiting and re-evaluating. But just so this doesn't become to much of a depressing thread, feel free to throw in some games that you appreciate more and more upon each revisit too.

These two games I'm going to mention are very formative. The imagery and music is still a shortcut to my heart, but I think they have been bettered (IMO) since or ...previously?!

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Again, to reiterate, I still love this game, but Breath of the Wild and the more recent Hitman games do such a great job of capturing much of what I love about MGS3, that it becomes harder to forgive the excess attached to it. Kojima pushed storytelling in games forward, but as writing in games gets better, Kojima's lack of brevity and subtly gets more and more annoying. There are some great ideas here and Kojima is a more gifted Director than he is a writer, but man he loves to condescendingly explain everything. Plus, unlike Resident Evil 4, whose controls have aged but feel great once you've adjusted, MGS3's controls are just awkward. Level design and bosses are so great, that you can push through this, but I'd love a version of this with MGS5's controls.

Final Fantasy VII - I think the Materia System is great, Midgar is amazing and the soundtrack is just unbelievably great. But I find it wildly visually inconsistent, the english localisation is pretty terrible and the rest of the game isn't nearly as well paced as the midgar section at the beginning. Also, Chrono Trigger exists and Jesus Christ, has that game aged like fine wine! I'm revisiting it now and it's exceptional...and it was released 2 years before FFVII! The reason why I bring up Chrono Trigger specifically, is because in terms of story, mechanics, art direction, eveything!, it feels like the perfect Final Fantasy game to me. FFVII may be more important to me in terms establishing my tastes, but if someone asks me which classic JRPG they should play, it's Chrono Trigger.

[ratsoalbion]

Interesting topic to think about. I shall ponder my own.

Surely at least one person here reassessed their feelings for Shenmue after playing the remasters and sequel...

[Alex79]

Hmm, it is interesting yeah, I'll have to think properly. None spring to mind because I very rarely replay games, so I'd imagine a lot of my old favorites might well not be so great now if I actually played them.

I can think of one off the top of my head, actually: Yoshi's Island.

I loved that game back in the day, and honestly couldn't choose between that and SMW as the absolute pinnacle of Nintendo's platforming. However, playing it again on Switch - I've only got to World 2 and I'm just bored. It's just not that fun any more. It's not aged badly, the controls still feel perfect, it looks amazing, it's just quite... dull?

Conversely, SMW is as much of a joy today as it's ever been.

[Stanshall]

Broad stroke but I've struggled going back to any 3D Zelda since BotW. I have extremely fond memories, especially of Twilight Princess and Ocarina, but they're so slow to build momentum and much of what I loved was the impressionistic sense of scale to the 'open world'. When there are actual explore anywhere massive map games available, Hyrule Field seems rather barren and dull. I never really enjoyed the dungeons, either. Easily my least favourite parts of any Zelda game, and I include the beasts of BotW in the same category.

[Angry_Kurt]

In terms of games that do stand the test of time and I appreciate even more now is Roller Coaster Tycoon. I still think it’s the pinnacle of the genre in terms of depth and accessibility for seasoned sim fans and newcomers to the genre

[DomsBeard]

Shenmue for me. 100% had to be there at that time to play it. I've put about 10 hours into 3 and not been back. To be honest Yakuza 0 gave me the same feelings and is a classic.

[Alex79]

I don't know man, I played Shenmue for the first time last year and really enjoyed it. Got about halfway through the second one too before dropping off and I've not been back. Keep meaning to, I was really enjoying the mundane wandering about of it all.

[ratsoalbion]

Couldn’t disagree more about Yoshi’s Island, Alex!
Aged like a fine wine for me whereas Shenmue has aged like a fine steak...

[Flabyo]

Ocarina of Time is up there for me. Absolutely stunning in its day, but it does nothing that later zelda games haven’t done better, and the framerate with those mushy n64 visuals feels far more dated to me than Link to the past does.

(I actually find a lot of ps1 and n64 games really hard to go back to now, but most of that is because they were running into design problems from being 3D games when that was new, and those are hard to get past when you know how to do it better now)

[Jon Cheetham]

I was watching Nick930's history of Tomb Raider the other day and I think I'd struggle to go back to the old PS1 instalments. Back then I had the patience and time to line up all those extremely precise grid-based jumps and restart entire sections because I'd missed a ledge and gone into a spike pit, but I don't think I'd be up for it now.

[duskvstweak]

So, I thought the first Freedom Force was fantastic. And, being so new to comics when I first played it, it was exciting to see all these homages to the heroes I was just getting into. But, then I played the recently and found it to be a chore, with weird racist moments that I think were trying to emulate the times, but made it awkward to play.

And Civ VI has made it that I don't turn Civ IV back on anymore.

[DomsBeard]

Reminds me actually that I bought Resi 4 on my ps4 to play for the first time since finishing it at launch on the Gamecube and the camera and motion made me feel sick like I was playing a VR game. Only got up to bingo each time. Weird.

[Alex79]

So, I thought the first Freedom Force was fantastic. And, being so new to comics when I first played it, it was exciting to see all these homages to the heroes I was just getting into. But, then I played the recently and found it to be a chore, with weird racist moments that I think were trying to emulate the times, but made it awkward to play.

Was Freedom Force that strategy RPG type game with like comic cut scenes and made up superhero characters? And a sequel in which you battled Nazi's or something? Like a Baldurs Gate style top down view? If so I remember really enjoying that back in the day, although yeah probably not the best to go back to now!

[Scrustle]

I suppose I have a couple for this, but the general concept of the topic is a bit of a weird one for me. Often when I go back to an old game I used to love and find myself not enjoying it as much, that usually doesn't lower my opinion of the game much. Like I don't think of the newer impressions as being more valid or overwriting the older ones. It's just being in a certain time and place each time. One isn't necessarily more correct than the other. And when I do go back to old favourites and find I don't like them as much revisiting them, it's rare that I don't like them at all either. Anyway with that said...

Kingdoms of Amalur is actually a pretty clean example of this for me. When I first played it back when it was new, it was one of my favourite RPGs I'd ever played. But coming back to it since, it's hard to overlook the flaws, and even the good bits don't stand out as much. The story and quest design are really boring and shallow. Basically everything is just fighting the evil ancient magic of some kind, and every character is flat and totally defined by their rank or occupation. Most quests have you fighting your way through dungeons that have barely anything going on, and are made out of even more obviously repeating generic chunks than Elder Scrolls dungeons. While some of the environments are nice looking, they tend to get less so as the game goes on. And while the combat is still fairly good, it feels kind of shallow and can't stay interesting for the game's runtime. Action RPGs that came out after outclassed it by quite a margin. When I played the game originally I think it was too enamoured with the combat to be that bothered by the other things, and I was generally less critical of storytelling as the medium has improved a lot on that in the years since as well.

And speaking of Elder Scrolls, I guess Oblivion and Skyrim count to a degree as well. Although this is an example of where I'd say I still have generally positive opinions, and still hold up my original impressions. But I was coincidentally thinking about this recently, how a lot of these games' appeal comes down to not having played them before. How a lot of the enjoyment comes from being curious about what is over in any given direction, and going on a spontaneous adventure to go find out. Even back when these games were new, I don't think I would argue that they weren't as mechanically shallow as they get criticised for, or many of their other problems, but the fun comes from that feeling of sheer openness and discovery, even if all you find is a nice view. But once you've played these games for hundreds of hours, and seen all there is to see, you can't get that feeling back. It's not the game's fault though that human memory exists. And come to think of it, I can't deny that BotW doesn't suffer from this too to some degree, although it has much more interesting and dynamic ways of interacting with the game world.

[Angry_Kurt]

GTA Vice City and to extent San Andreas also fit this bill for me. I was delighted when they re released the GTA games with trophies on PS4 a few years ago and downloaded them immediately. I started Vice City and found the third person controls to be horrible, I tried to press on but as soon as I got to a mission that was giving me trouble, I stopped playing.

[Combine Hunter]

Reminds me actually that I bought Resi 4 on my ps4 to play for the first time since finishing it at launch on the Gamecube and the camera and motion made me feel sick like I was playing a VR game. Only got up to bingo each time. Weird.

See, for me, Resi 4 exists in this weird state where it is simultaneously of its era and timeless at the same time. You'd never make an action game that controls like that now, but once you get used to the temperature of the water, it still feels amazing.

[Caligulas Horse]

Rascal is an easy choice, bit different from the others here in that I was one of the only people who liked it in the first place. I didn't know any better, it was one of the first games I ever owned (still have that same disc). Me and my mum would take it in turns playing it, it'd take use ages to get through every level, but we had a lot of fun with it. It's a time travel game, you have to play through every level in the past, present, and future (which is just the same boss fight every time); so a medieval castle becomes a museum, a town in the wild west becomes a movie studio etc. I still think it's a cool idea and it has a banging soundtrack, I enjoy sticking it on for a quick go every now and then, but my god are the controls and camera terrible. It's a 3D platformer that uses tank controls, it's incredibly awkward to move/aim your body, the character picks up momentum so he skids around like everything is made of ice, you have to get each jump perfect and if you couple all that with the broken camera- that frequently blocks you from seeing what you're meant to do- you're just wildly slinging this kid about and hoping you'll get to the end. I discovered a year or so ago that some actually consider it to be the worst game ever made. My mum won't hear of it though, it's still a classic in our family lol.

FPS have probably suffered the most, anything on the PS2 just pales in comparison to what has come since.

[Sinclair Gregstrum]

Aged like a fine wine for me whereas Shenmue has aged like a fine steak...

Well apparently the world's most expensive steak, considered an exquisite delicacy, was aged for 15 years, and this article is from 5 years ago, meaning the steak was from the year 2000 - right between the release of the Shenmue games!

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/world- ... t%20steaks

So you're right Leon, Shenmue has indeed aged beautifully like a fine steak!

Gotcha!

SHENMUE FOREVER!!!

[ratsoalbion]

Ha!

OK then I'll revise that to some fine... cream?

[Alex79]

Aged like a fine wine for me whereas Shenmue has aged like a fine steak...

Well apparently the world's most expensive steak, considered an exquisite delicacy, was aged for 15 years, and this article is from 5 years ago, meaning the steak was from the year 2000 - right between the release of the Shenmue games!

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/world- ... t%20steaks

So you're right Leon, Shenmue has indeed aged beautifully like a fine steak!

Gotcha!

SHENMUE FOREVER!!!

What on earth were you Googling to find that to prove a point