All things The Legend of Zelda

[Feirsteax]

April fools is the worst. Nothing is funny on this day

[DomsBeard]

Crap April Fools joke :/

[dezm0nd]

Some madman/genius remade the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time in Unreal Engine 4.

http://vimeo.com/93897087

[ratsoalbion]

In case you haven't picked up on this already, we have decided to undertake the mammoth task of covering the entire Legend of Zelda series, starting at the very beginning, in Volume Five (and beyond) of the podcast!

So if you've played the 1986 NES original, either at the time or more recently on GameCube, GBA or Virtual Console, we'd love to hear all about your experiences.

[chase210]

Well, I was 7 years away from being born in 1986, so the original Zelda passed me by a tad :p But I have played it! Since I got it through the 3DS ambassador program I've tried to play through it several times, and to be honest, it stumps me. I'd prefer not to use a walkthrough of any kind, but without one, I find the whole thing to be ridiculously obtuse to play. Sure its an adventure, but some kind of hint or a vague direction to walk in would be nice. First time I played it, I'm pretty sure I missed the sword in fact. In 4 years, I've only ever played through two dungeons, with the help of a walkthrough, and although I can't say those dungeons are truly 'bad', in my head I constantly compare them to the superior Zelda experiences we now have.

On the plus side, I don't think it looks at all bad for an NES game. Maybe its just me, but I like how even though its so old, it almost instantly identifies itself as a Zelda game to me, the music helps, its pretty good for an NES game. I understand being able to save in the game was a pretty novel concept back in the day, so thats one.

Maybe I'm just a gamer of a different age, but I can't get into the original Legend Of Zelda. I'm specially interested to hear what Leon thought of it, since he's been gaming significantly longer than I have and I imagine played it at release or at least around the time.

[Alex79]

I just got my hacked PSP back after it being on perma-loan to my son for about the last three years (and when I say got back, I mean he finally found it in his bedroom...) and I've long been looking for a reason to really get stuck in to this series, so I'm pretty excited about these podcasts - I shall definitely be playing along when I can. The reason I mention the PSP, is that I now have the perfect way to play the original on a mobile platform so will give it a good go!

[Suits]

Zelda - WOW

1984 birth here. My Zelda story I mention here isn't so much about the actual game play, which I think most will all agree on, it's more about the journey. It's one that for the early part of my years revolved around things being too far out of reach and my cousin that lived in Cardiff and was 2 years older than me.

I also blame Zelda for introducing a depth to computer games that I'd previously never experienced, new was there, or even knew I wanted.

1991 - My very first serious knowledge of Zelda, (apart from the side of my Game Box IIRC) was from a Nintendo sticker book that I must have had when I was about 7. It was filled with various first party Nintendo games, focusing mainly on the back end of the NES generation and it's library of games, culmination in an obvious Super Mario Brothers 3. Amongst other games I'd never heard of, or played, there was a full double spread page dedicated to Zelda. It looked odd and hard to understand but I remember being totally mesmerised by the shiny for that game - Link's shield.

1993 - I'd had my Gameboy for a few years now. It had pride of place next to my Master System II and helped me bridge the gap between the Sega and Nintendo camps. I was aware of Zelda:Links Awakening, mainly from accidentally playing Mystic Quest (one of my all time great games - Palm Trees and 8) on the Gameboy and being blown away in what was my first experience of an RPG. Being close to 10 years old now, the whole idea of an RPG was starting to become clear to me and something I liked the idea of more and more. One day I collected all of my Gameboy games, my pocket money and convinced my father to drive me into town where there was a game exchange centre. I think it may have been called 'That's Entertainment' or something similar. It was sort of an early Cash Convertors I think. Anyway, they had a Zelda cart and I wanted it. Much to my fathers misunderstanding and anger, he witnessed me trade in most of my games and all my money for this game. Loved it, totally. It was every thing I wanted, needed and expected from it.

1994 - By now I was well aware of Zelda and needed more. I needed the next step. One day I was visiting my cousin (which was a 30 minute drive away, or more integrally rather around how often I could convince my mother to go visit her sister.) We were getting tiered of playing Super Mario World and the other games he had at the time. We were dreaming up ways of how we could play Zelda:Link To The Past. One day, in our quest to get hold of a cartridge (outside of Christmas or a impending birthday celebration) one of us came up with the idea of checking the Free Adds paper, to which there was an advert for a cartridge swap for a number of other SNES games, one of which being Hook. Hook had a dusty place in my cousins library of SNES games and after much egging on and persuasion, we got our act together and begun the trade finer points. Being about 11 and my cousin being about 13, the idea of effort for no immediate reward was perplexing but being old enough to understand that this was possibly the only realistic way we could get hold of the cart, was a sobering one and focussed us in organising the trade and essential postage dramas. I left my cousins that time with the hope that by the time I'd get back, possibly a few months or even longer, that the trade will have been completed and I could witness this wonderful game.

1995 - By the time I'd managed to get to my cousins again he had smashed through the whole game and was very blasé about it, sort of in the manner, "yeah, I've played Zelda and finished it, it was good" then started talking about something else, possibly a Simpson's episode or another new game he rented or borrowed. All I wanted to see and play was Zelda. He loaded it up for me and as soon as I saw the top of the pyramid, with the cracked big hole in it and the plethora of hearts across the top of the screen, I nearly died with enthusiasm. I just needed to play that game for the story, the weapons and how he managed to collect all of those extra hearts. It was at this point that my cousin was beginning to pine for my goods that I had brought with me. I'd often bring my Master System, or in later years my Mega Drive, up to Cardiff on visits so we could play each others games. At the time I'd just managed to get my hands on NHL '94, an incredible game, truly great sports game that I had played the buttons out of. He wanted that. It was at that point our eyes lit up with enlightenment and we decided to swap consoles until our next encounter. The details of which we happily skipped over, in excitement of both agreeing on a trade of which I could play Z:LTTP and he could play NHL94, solely and under no family get together time frames.

The rest was history really and no one needs me to go into detail about how excellent the game was but for me, I hold an extremely fond place in my heart for the whole franchise. It was something that brought family, excitement, expectation and reflection on a series and ultimately a whole genre, that I haven't and possible never in the exact same way, feel again.

[AlexMaskill]

Oh man we're gonna have some fun with this one.

I grew up in a weird gaming environment - my house only had one TV, so while we did have a home console, time on it for any one person was very limited - this combined with the older brother's duty to "go on, let your little brother have a go" pretty brutally for me. As a result I did most of my gaming on handhelds. In addition, I got games as loose cartridges from Gamestation or hand-me-downs from my cousins or from family friends far more often than I got brought new games, and typically they came without boxes or manuals. So a lot of the games I would play throughout my childhood up until the age of around 10 had no context - I'd play something and any story or visual reference points that weren't in the game just plain weren't there for me, so I'd either fill it in with my imagination or accepted what seemed to me to be bizarre dream logic. This has really informed by sensibilities as a game designer but that's a whole other thing.

So at some point in 1999, I was given Link's Awakening DX - loose, just the cartridge - and had no idea what it really was. I'd heard the name before but I didn't own an N64 and I'd seen the golden Ocarina of Time cartridges around so all I knew was that it was a Big Deal. I couldn't have told you what the game actually was.

I must have sunk fifty hours into that game. I was too young for my navigational skills to be worth a damn but being in that vaguely malevolent yet oddly charming world won me over so hard that I didn't want to put it down. A nuanced, occasionally intimidating adventure full of interesting surprises. It was also the first game to really reward the dreamlike way I played through games by making it an actual dream!

I missed out on the Oracle games, and the next time I encountered Zelda was on a plane over to New Zealand. I don't know if they still do this but Singapore Airlines used to have screens in the back of their seats which contained, among films and TV shows, a vast library of SNES games which could be played using each seat's control. These are 28-hour flights, so this gave me time to get acquainted with a host of games I wouldn't otherwise have played. Stuff like this is why I seem to have the gaming memories of someone five to ten years older than me.

A Link To The Past was on there. I loaded it up, and almost immediately got lost. I figured the game required a time investment I didn't have, and went back to Claymates. Eight year old me had impeccable taste.

I later emulated A Link To The Past and bought Phantom Hourglass, though I have no idea where that got to. I loved the former and could take or leave the latter. However, it was only in 2011 that I first played Ocarina of Time, on the 3DS. I don't know how updated that version was compared to the original - only that it looks way better - but it was one of my favourite game experiences ever. It's a stunning game - it manages a sense of scale most games need to really abstract themselves in order to achieve (in spite of taking place over a single square mile), its gameplay systems are tight and expressive and it's such a charming and communicative space to inhabit. I'm looking to start Majora's Mask 3D soon - I'm also stuck into A Link Between Worlds and it's great.

P.S. Don't worry about the "timeline" too much, it really doesn't matter.

[Alex79]

Started the game last night - took me about ten minutes to when work out how to start a game >_< Can't say I'm enjoying it so far! I thought you get a sword at the start, my Link has throwing knives!?

[ratsoalbion]

You throw a sword beam when at full health.

[Electric Crocosaurus]

The Legend of Zelda has a special place in my heart as it was my very first video game. My memories are, therefore, extremely hazy, but I can remember my Dad setting up the NES in the spare room at Christmas and booting the console up. I don't know why he bought a NES for me, as to my mind I'd never expressed any interest in video games until that point. I can't have been much older than 5 or 6 (or possibly even younger) so I'm sure my Dad would have been surprised if he'd know that 25 years later I'd still be playing this 'children's' hobby.

The game was far too hard for me at such an early age, but the soundtrack has always stayed with me. Koji Kondo's theme is the greatest adventure track in the history of gaming (discuss) and I've enjoyed the many revisions that have come since (the LSO version on the first Greatest Video Game Soundtracks of all Time is a corker).

[KissMammal]

How does the original Zelda hold up?

I've always given it a swerve as I imagine it to be one of those titles, like Metroid, that hasn't aged very well and was only really refined with later sequels.

[Craig]

My first zelda was link to the past and I later returned to this one more as a curiosity than anything else. The first few times it didn't really stick. I was aimless and because you start off with so little life, making progress was difficult. It was difficult to know if you were even making any progress.

After I made a dedicated effort to get into it a few years later I found myself really enjoying the game although it feels like many aspects of the game are definitely of its time and I kind of feel like it's a shame to have missed it in its original context.

One of the main aspects is the exploration. However, Miyamoto has said since in interviews he wanted kids to discuss it on the playground; to share secrets and figure out things together. Because it's an old game, you'll struggle to find people who 1) haven't already played it and 2) want to play it. So your only options when stuck are either to figure things out yourself, ask people who have already finished it or the Internet.

Working things out yourself is sometimes fun but often tedious. Finding hidden areas by burning every bush? Okay, a little annoying. The initial item that burns every bush can only be used once before exiting and re-entering the screen? Tedium. Not to mention the baffling things NPCs say.

Talking to friends who have already completed it kind of deflates the sense of adventure. Because they already know what is coming up and likely know all the secrets, it doesn't feel like exploring but rather just being told what you need to do.

And then there's the Internet; both a great help and hindrance with the game. It means you can find lots of secrets and get those heart pieces without hitting your head against a brick wall, but it also means that you have access to all the secrets in the game at once. If you're stuck, it's difficult to find information on how to progress without also finding out about other stuff later in the game. The information is also all correct now considering the game is nearly 30 years old so you don't get the conversations on the playground with those kids who you know you shouldn't believe when they say they've finished it and sonic is the last boss, but part of you really isn't sure.

Figuring out the adventure together with your friends was part of the exploration. Now you have no secrets to trade, but just a wealth of information to access which, if used improperly, can deflate the sense of exploration and turn it into a linear experience.


As for the mechanics of the game? They mostly hold up. There are a few late enemies that are just a pain to deal with and I feel are down to luck more than anything, but once you've explored a bit losing progress doesn't set you back that far. Fairy fountains are easily found and will replenish your life and the warp whistle is a quick travel device.

It certainly holds up better than Metroid which I can't really recommend without a hacked version or save state scumming, but that's for another time.

[KissMammal]

Hmm.

Personally, I can't even play A Link to the Past without spamming save-states. While it still largely plays very well for a game approaching 25 years of age, I don't think its aged quite as gracefully as some would have you believe. To be honest the slow traversal, limited fast-travel, forced repetition and lack of checkpoints in that game are a real pain in the arse playing it now, and I suspect this will be something that will come up in the eventual C&R episode. It's also often punishingly difficult. This could well be heresy to some, but I believe that there's little reason to revisit it now that A Link Between Worlds exists.

My other prediction for this series (should they be covered or get a show of their own) is that the DS games (Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks) will surprise people. I think they're pretty underrated games in general (PH's infamously horrible central dungeon notwithstanding!).

[Craig]

Once you get past the first few dungeons in Link to the Past I'm kind of surprised you'd have to save scum. You have a fairly generous amount of heart containers and with bottled fairies it's not often you'll see the game over screen. I'm also confused about the limited fast travel comments considering the bird warp will put you pretty near any of the dungeons. The most likely place you'll die is against a boss and even then it'll just take you to the start of the dungeon.

The only really hard parts I find are towards the end of the game where you'll probably be stocked up with fairies and the like anyway. It's honestly the first time I've heard someone complain link to the past is too difficult.

[dezm0nd]

Is the term "save scum" a popular one when talking about save states? I've never heard it before.

[Alex79]

Does anyone know when this show will be recorded? I'm actually enjoying this now and eager to get my thoughts in from someone who has barely touched the series at all before.

[martymcfly3004]

Is the term "save scum" a popular one when talking about save states? I've never heard it before.

Yeah, it means saving before all signs of danger so you can undo anything bad that happens. 'save scumming'.

[ratsoalbion]

Does anyone know when this show will be recorded? I'm actually enjoying this now and eager to get my thoughts in from someone who has barely touched the series at all before.

Please try to get your feedback in by 25th November.

[martymcfly3004]

Does anyone know when this show will be recorded? I'm actually enjoying this now and eager to get my thoughts in from someone who has barely touched the series at all before.

How are you playing it?