I'm not sure a rant is really in order to be honest. Most of what needs to be said about 13 has been said many times over.

Over time I've just come to think of it as a massive missed opportunity. There's some good stuff in 13, the combat system is pretty interesting and it has a mostly solid voice cast compared to some of the earlier games.

For me it's the fact it's such a huge step backwards from 12. FF12 was experimental, sure, and not everyone liked the direction it took, but at least it made attempts to move the JRPG genre on from the rut it's been in for decades. The reaction of the more vocal fans meant that for 13 Square not only went back to the rut, they drove themselves right down to the darkest depths of it.

The entire JRPG genre is pretty much dead to me at the moment. All the innovation in RPG is coming from the west.

I wouldn't say JRPGs have regressed because of the reaction to 13. Maybe things could have looked that way a year or two ago, but not anymore. Although I guess it depends on how you define the genre. All those FF games coming out which I mentioned have all gone pretty far away from the usual FF formula. So much so that I suppose they're not really JRPGs anymore. They're more action RPGs. But if you still define them by their art style and general themes, then to me it looks like the genre is finally getting a kick up the arse that it's needed for the entire last console generation.

But at the same time, I think we are starting to see traditional JRPGs come back in a way too. Bravely Default was really successful and praised a lot by people, for taking the old formula, but actually doing stuff to it to evolve it, and in a way that made sense. Not like all the needlessly obtuse battle systems we've been seeing in the genre for so long. And then there's also the Persona/SMT games. Another quite traditional JRPG franchise, which is has gained a whole lot of momentum recently. It's even more or less the biggest game series around in Japan right now. I don't know how it compares to Dragon Quest, but it's certainly eclipsed FF in relevancy over there.

Quite a few people I know were very down on Bravely Default, it seems to have many of the issues that the genre needs to move past (grinding, choke points, back tracking).

Part of it is of course my own changing tastes. I don't have as much spare time to game as I did when I got heavily into FF7 and Xenogears. With western 'open world' style RPGs I can just explore for a while, the story is still there but it isn't the ONLY driving force behind playing the game.

(another thing about 13, the plot was really hard to follow unless you paused and read all the codex entries after every cutscene to get an explanation as to what had just happened)

I did enjoy 'The Last Story', which took a more experimental approach and was quite a bit shorter than most JRPGs. It avoided any real need to grind through very considered design choices. I own Xenoblade, but I just can't face it at the moment (and Ni No Kuni drove me to despair, it was so archaic in design...)

Flabyo wrote:Quite a few people I know were very down on Bravely Default, it seems to have many of the issues that the genre needs to move past (grinding, choke points, back tracking).

Part of it is of course my own changing tastes. I don't have as much spare time to game as I did when I got heavily into FF7 and Xenogears. With western 'open world' style RPGs I can just explore for a while, the story is still there but it isn't the ONLY driving force behind playing the game.

(another thing about 13, the plot was really hard to follow unless you paused and read all the codex entries after every cutscene to get an explanation as to what had just happened)

I did enjoy 'The Last Story', which took a more experimental approach and was quite a bit shorter than most JRPGs. It avoided any real need to grind through very considered design choices. I own Xenoblade, but I just can't face it at the moment (and Ni No Kuni drove me to despair, it was so archaic in design...)

I disagree regarding your points on 13, I think it was experimental and I legitimately think it was an 'attempt' (albeit a bad one) at taking design elements which are popular in JRPG's and combining that with the streamlined approach of many popular western games. I don't think it was a back step, I think it was a diagonal one - the problem is they would have done better looking WRPG's as an example whereas their level/world design was more reminiscent of a third person or first person shooter.

As for Bravely Default. The majority of people's concerns weren't regarding grinding or choke points from my experience. The settings from BD actually allowed you to bypass these fairly easily. No, the real problem is the second half of the game which is essentially a boss rush of the first half of the game... four more times with travelling between them all. The game actually got praise for it's ability to bypass at least some degree of grind and for being a better Final Fantasy in spirit than others have been in years (hyperbole now I think about it. As long as the Second one doesn't do that again it'll be fine.

I'll say one thing about 13: Its soundtrack is *criminally* overlooked. I feel a post to the game music thread coming on...

Flabyo wrote:I'll say one thing about 13: Its soundtrack is *criminally* overlooked. I feel a post to the game music thread coming on...

Now, that we agree on!

I quite enjoyed XIII. Its not as good as XII but I had fun with it. Ive bought FFX for my Vita and not played it yet. My wife has sunk about 10 hours in and enjoys it but is getting annoyed with the fact you can grind for a hour then die with no save. From what I've seen it looks great though.

A great looking game that probably would have had people building shrines ten or even five years ago. Its open world seems more of the Phantom Pain variety than The Witcher so far, but I've only played about 90 minutes, in fairness.

While I appreciate that there's a unique charm to this emo/anime/romantic/techno-cyber-cute squad aesthetic, which is primo Japan filtering Western tropes, and I can see how much someone could fall in love with it, I'm not quite there yet. I really would like to get them all a short back and sides and into check shirts, V-neck sweaters and a straight cut trouser. Tuck their fucking shirts in, actually, that'd be a great start. Sensible walking shoes, leather uppers and a cushioned breathable sole, rather than these 90s techno-goth Marilyn Manson biker boot atrocities. You wouldn't see shape shifting lizard William dressed like this. Get the British Racing Green gilets on, lads, a lemon pullover and a tweed flat cap. A pair of tan slacks. Oxford brogues.

Any other first impressions?

I tend to stay away from anything Final Fantasy, so I might as well not have responded... but I thought Conan O'Brien's Clueless Gamer section on it was bloody hilarious and wanted to share.

I havent played,probably wont for a while,but I watched alot of streams of it yesterday and what really struck me was how similar the game seemed to FF XII I mean the whole hunts,the large open areas and even the more real time combat it all kinda feels like an evolution of those concepts that started in XII and to me that's a major incentive for me to pick this up also I dont think I'ver played a game where the main cast is a boy band XD

Conan's Clueless Gamer features are generally pretty funny. His Witcher 3 one is good if you've not seen it!

I'm tempted by FFXV as in many respects it does look lovely and I'm feeling in the mood for a lengthy adventure. On the flip side, reflecting Stanshall's comments I'm absolutely not sold on this cast of characters, and not just the lead gang but pretty much any other character I'm seeing in the coverage so far.

The landscapes, the architecture, the creatures - I'm in! The people....not so much.

And there in lies the problem. I don't want to spend 50+ hours with a bunch of characters I'm not interested in. Certainly not when I've got a mountain of games ready to roll that are personally far more appealing (still not played through Uncharted 4 for starters, then theres Gears, Titanfall, Forza, Doom...)

Might be something I pick up next year maybe if my graving for an epic quest isn't fulfilled by the likes of Mass Effect, Horizon etc.

I'm getting into this a bit. Certainly some nice set pieces and I'm delighted to have found I can change their clothes, which is worth it even if it tanks my stats. A moderate Sloane wanker kind of look. Val d'Isere apres ski larks with horsey posh girls with big white teeth. Puffa gilet and a baseball cap. Much more appropriate for a young Prince. The tosser's uniform. The backdrops and lighting and stuff really are impressive. I'll repeat my point about a somewhat empty open world, though, and I'll add Spirit Tracks to the list of comparisons, because there's currently very little to do off the beaten track.

From the lack of activity on this thread it doesn't seem there are loads of C&R folk playing it, but apparently there are 5 million people that are!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... lling-game

Impressive numbers, and you have to be happy for everyone involved given the decade of blood sweat and tears that has got them here.

Would love to know what their break-even point is based on what they've spent on dev and marketing from when production on Versus XIII over 10 years ago!

I think it's fair to say that the break even point is not even possible after all this time XD but If I was Square Enix I would be happy to be making some money outta of it and more importantly this seems to be revitalizing the franchise and bringing it back to the mainstream conciousness.

Real talk, I've not played any FF game since the PS1 era but this just doesn't feel like Final Fantasy as I know it. A few hours in and it feels very strange. It's tonally jarring at almost every step. I don't know what it wants to be yet or what it really feels like. The contemporary naturalism rubs up against the techno babble and fantasy elements in an odd way. I'm kind of enjoying it and kind of bored as fuck. I don't know if I'm supposed to be gripped by the opening or if it's a deliberately slow start. I just watched some lad on Masterchef serve goat, venison and ribs with avocado ice cream and a coffee and chilli brittle. This is a bit like that, with fucking amazing presentation. As they say, I'm intrigued and wonder whether a simpler dish with a fantastic sauce would have hit the spot harder. I'm not sure about that but I genuinely don't know what the gameplay loop is yet besides holding down run in the direction of map markers.

ratsoalbion wrote:IX really divides people. Actually most of them do, but particularly IX.

I love IX. X is great, but IX is just something special.

VIII and XII are garbage.

My copy of FF XV is coming from NA so it should be here in a couple of weeks. I had forgotten I pre-ordered it when it was on sale at Amazon.

I hear people comparing it to VIII which makes me a little wary, and I have extremely mixed feelings on real time battle systems.

I miss turn based.

Played the first hour, enjoying it. Felt a bit weird going through a drawn out tutorial rather than it showing you in the game and having an extensive instruction book to read (god I miss instruction books!).

VII will always be my favourite then XII, IX, VIII and XIII. Never got round to playing X or the online ones.

12 is the best of the post PS1 era.

So there.

(We all know Tactics on the PS1 is the best FF game right? Good).

Flabyo wrote:10 is the best of the post PS1 era.

So there.

(We all know FF9 on the PS1 is the best FF game right? Good).

Fixed that for you!

It is a universal truth that no two people will have the same opinion about which FF games are good and bad.

I hated the voice acting and linearity in 10 (and my god whoever chose the midi set for the music needs shooting, ruins what is a pretty decent score otherwise), and thought 9 was fun enough but nothing spectacular.

7 is an important game to me, but I know that it doesn't hold up that well now (the localisation in particular is all over the shop).

Tactics also had some fun localisation problems with its original release, but they did a complete retranslation for the (much) later PSP/iOS release of it.

There's a reason my avatar on here is what it is...