The Shenmue trilogy

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future
Post Reply
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

The Shenmue trilogy

Post by ratsoalbion »

It's December, the run up to Christmas, and we're just over a fortnight from recording the first of our brace of Shenmue podcasts. What better time to reflect upon Yu Suzuki's unfinished magnum opus?

Please populate this thread with your memories and experiences of your time in Yokosuka (and beyond).
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

Christ so many!. I'll elaborate later!. But so far this is what's in my head:

Sailors, collecting toys, playing the arcade QTE games forever, fork lift truck racing, Fuksan, Toms Hot Dogs, Rescuing a cat and Ryo's constant ignoring of Nazomi's keenness.
User avatar
Alex79
Member
Posts: 8423
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 12:36 pm
Location: Walsall, UK.
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by Alex79 »

Shenmue was the first game I played on the Dreamcast. It was my friends console and this was his 'must show' game. I remember being very impressed by the graphics, and I thought the game just seemed, well... EPIC right from the start. Unfortunately, an hour or so with it was all I got, and I've never been back. It's always one of those games I've meant to get round to playing. I'll be listening with interest to see if the game has held up well over the years and warrants digging the old Dreamcast out of the loft and seeking out a copy.

EDIT : The whole looking for sailors thing still makes me giggle.
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by ratsoalbion »

You have about 27 hours to get your Shenmue thoughts in please, people. I thought people were crazy about this game!
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

Ha ha I am, I'll dive in tonight before I'm engulfed by Christmas festivities
User avatar
mikeleddy83
Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:32 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by mikeleddy83 »

My plan isn't working out, I've had to restart as my savegame is gone from way back when and I've started fresh. Currently rolling on to 12 hours in but it might be possible!
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

Hmmm where do I begin, indulge me as I waffle on about one of my favourite games ever, it made me fall in love with the Dreamcast and glad I didn't wait to get a PS2.

(I've not played either for about 5 years so my rosé tinted goggles are engaged).

It's probably one of the most immersive games I've ever played, I loved wandering around talking to everyone I could and investigating. I also had an addiction to collecting Virtua Fighter toys and spent my allowance on the same machine trying to get them all. Eventually I felt guilty spending the shoe box of money each day on toys and Super Hang On and got on with the game. It had its irritations, the curfew was very annoying, wasn't I lord of the estate now?. I loved the fork lift truck driving and honed it to perfection to earn more money (to spend on toys of course!) and looked forward to the race each day.

The unique weather system was brilliant too as I think it was a randomly generated weather system? Or it might've been on the time of year. The amount of voice acting was new to me and brilliant (its wooden as hell now) and i preferred the japanese with subs option in 2. I loved the characters, Tom on his hot dog stand, Nozomi and the obvious love they have for each other and the fact Ryo can't return that love. The only problem I had with the first which I found way better in the second was the combat, it felt too trial and error but then again I did spend my money on toys rather than scrolls though.

The second game sells you being a fish out of water very well and for the opening two thirds is a brilliant continuation of the quest. I had my issues with the final third I thought it was far too slow and wound down the tension that had built up after the fantastic cage fights you had. The final fight vs Master Baihu then defeating Dou Niu finally to then see Lan Di was amazing and to then go to a quiet village and pick up twigs was a big let down. Maybe at the time they were saving things for Shenmue 3.

Shenmue 3? The one game I want made over anything else, this story deserves to be finished and I hope one day it will be. I wonder what the licensing is? I bet if a kickstarter was announced for this tomorrow it would be filled in no time but looking into it you're looking at around $50 million. But development costs have come down so hopefully not as much.

Would I recommend people play it now? . Absolutely!, I'm looking forward to hearing Leon's thoughts on them compared to mine as a lot of it will seem archaic or even boring in comparison to games nowadays. It deserves a HD collection it's a highlight of my gaming history for me up there with playing Super Mario Bros 3, Mario 64, Ocarina Of Time, Mass Effect and Skyrim for the first time.

Anyway got to go need to find out where sailors hang out on a night.
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

I didn't realise you were doing two shows! Brilliant!!! :D
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by ratsoalbion »

Aye; big, important games - lots to talk about.
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

Think I'd heard 'upcoming shows Shenmue 1 & 2' and presumed it was the one, delighted! :)
User avatar
delb2k
Member
Posts: 211
Joined: September 3rd, 2012, 11:35 pm

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by delb2k »

To make this a little easier I will split this into one per game as oppossed to doing a whole post and mixing them in.

Shenmue:

My nostalgia is a powerful thing and one that will paint this in a rosier picture than todays reality probably gives it. For me Shenmue is one of the few games that felt like I was playing a genuine role, where the world around me was consistent and felt like something true instead of smoke and mirrors. The story may be slightly hokey, a fact not helped by some wooden voice acting, but the wrapping around it was so mesmirising at the time it did not matter. I felt like a part of the community in that small town, that I knew all the shopkeepers and the people that worked at the docks.

The actual mechanics were pretty basic, and something Yakuza has basically taken and run with both last and this gen (minus the QTE sections). You investigate, get in a fight, do some QTE, do some more investigating, get in a fight and ask for some sailors. But they were great at the time, the QTE sequences were fun just to see what would happen, the combat was required some skill through learning combos and tactics and the exploring was made interesting by the various arcades or curiosities that existed. And if all else failed a quick pop home to the local saturn worked wonders.

I really enjoyed it, this one in particular may not stand up to current scrutiny but then few games do. At the time I was captivated and it still remains a very fond memory of my Dreamcast days.

Shenmue 2:

First off hooray, the english voices have disappeared and been replaced with Japanese. This voicework could also have been incredibly poor but because it was not english I could not really tell.

Shenmue 2 was all about more. More characters, bigger places and new things to do. The story got darker and if my memory serves me tale was told in a more linear fashion, something that suited me at that point. The action sequences also became grander, instilling a new sense of spectacle and that final battle through the yellowbrick building (I think that is the name) is still a standout memory for me as a genuinely excellent final section.

The thing is I found the game much harder to get into, the start seemed to be really slow before anything of note kicked in to grab the player and by then it had almost lost me. By the end I had become hooked again, a testament to how well it had managed to bring me round after a poor opening.

The odd thing is that I do not have a great desire for the third. With the changes and improvements to almost everything the game did made over the years it would, i suspect, loose what made it Shenmue in the first place. It is a product of the time but that time passed and the whole landscape has moved on. Make it to todays standards and it simply will not feel the same, act the same or play the same which would mean a lot of the magic that made the titles what they were is there no more.
nickoneill1888

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by nickoneill1888 »

Its been so long since I've played either of these games, I'm finding it hard to remember any specific memories.

Only a few spring to mind like being able to play arcade games within the game and the epic 100 man fight.

Although I cant remember too many specifics I do remember loving playing through the game. There was nothing else quite like it at the time.
User avatar
mikeleddy83
Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:32 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by mikeleddy83 »

First saw this game in a huge feature in a game mag where it was touted as the next big thing and planned as one of the longest game series from the offset, when the time came to play it I barely passed the first disc finding it a little too much of a slog and the methods of progression seemingly totally random (despite the diary), I did however spend a great deal of time with it as a retro arcade collection.

Tonight I finally got around to completing it!

There's just too much to say about Shenmue. For me it's a boring town but one I'm always interested in visiting, extremely dated sound effects and voice acting but somehow they grow on you and the time system which presents the games biggest flaws yet offers something new and is ultimately the most significant gameplay mechanic of the experience.

Then there's the combat, extremely unpolished though from the developers of Virtua Fighter yet also capable of pushing me to an addiction to throwing a few punches around in a dojo or public park improving skills I knew would rarely offer me any advantage in battle, most moves of which would never even see a single use when used against the weird (mostly unpredictable) enemy AI.

But then there's the retro games, an idea I wish all developers with any historical relevance could work into their games. Nothing beats playing a game inside a game and in this case the choices are stellar. The music at points can be really enthralling and that boring sleepy town is modelled with such attention to detail that it's probably just about still worth a visit.

It might sound like I'm being harsh on the game but I really enjoyed it and think it deserves its classic status within video game history!

(Fuck, missed the deadline! Pretty excited to start the second one soon, hope to have it done well in advance)
User avatar
mikeleddy83
Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:32 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by mikeleddy83 »

First the good stuff! With the exception of the Joy theme the music is almost always great, the fighting feels like a real improvement, the quick wait option removes so many issues I had with the first game and the book airing job arguably works in the context of the story.

Shenmue 2 is no better represented than by it's "Yin and yang" cutscene late in the game. Most of Hong Kong (especially in the early sections of the game) feels awkward (I even got some vibes of xenophobia) but on the flipside it still works with its scaled back detail and sufficiently captures the atmosphere of key locations (the golden quarter and man mo temple for me were good approximations). The small money earning jobs are frustrating and for the most part pointless, I utilised the big or small trick to amass a small fortune to avoid these issues.

I felt the story to be a slow burner though the cutscenes frequently have interesting camera angles and generally strong direction, parallel to this the gameplay never had any serious lulls like the first game and felt quite active, its culimnation being the Yellowhead building and the long overdue appearance of Lan Di which I can also testify to being a classic moment. The final act begins as a genuinely interesting direction to the game but drags on for so long that it diminishes the welcome revelation of where the game got its name. The ending was frustrating and shows a direction I'd be less enthused of should a Shenmue 3 ever come to fruition.

The most glaring issue with this game is how it takes the QTE popularised in the first game and manages to destroy its foundations so easily with a series of frustrating applications and a steep learning curve.

As a mixed blessing I played the xbox version on the 360 where glitches can be a small issue though easily remedied, the camera facility actually useful (some shots from the cutscenes are stunning) and the emulation of arcade machines strong enough to satisfy retro cravings, the voice acting in this particular version is shoddy with extremely dated dubbing conventions even cropping up during the games final hours.

I want to be harsh on the game but it manages to scrape by with being equally brilliant and shockingly shit, the underlying thought to holding this game above average is that the creativity on offer is the stuff that keeps me invested in this hobby, the risks it takes are miscalculated but brave and as much as I'm happy with the Yakuza series I still feel there's some potential in this series.

I'm overwhelmed that I've finally ticked this game off my list, it's just a shame it doesn't match my expectations.
User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 7918
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 9:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by ratsoalbion »

Don't forget that we're recording the Shenmue II podcast this Thursday. We'd love to include some of your thoughts regarding the game and/or a possible Shenmue III.
User avatar
mikeleddy83
Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:32 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by mikeleddy83 »

Just a quick refresher on how laughable the xbox versions dub can be (love the small pause between lines):

Spoilers ahead if you've not come close to the last hour of the game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnlHeus6l6U#t=7m40s
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

At the time this game was amazing, I'm going to replay it to see how it holds up 12 years later after this show.

I received it Christmas Day 2001 and spent most of thst time playing it through. The second game sells you being a fish out of water very well and for the opening two thirds is a brilliant continuation of the quest. The jobs were a lot worse, if I ever go to that way I wont be trying lucky hit!. The series of cage fights and the final fight vs Master Baihu were epic. Afterwards defeating Dou Niu finally to then see Lan Di was amazing. To then go to a quiet village and pick up twigs was a big let down for me the end was a bit of a damp squib. they should've ended it with Ryo leaving for Guilin. Maybe at the time they were saving things for Shenmue 3.

Shenmue 3? The one game I want made over anything else, this story deserves to be told and I hope one day it will be. Release a HD collection of Shenmue 1&2 to test the waters. I bet if a kickstarter was announced for this tomorrow it would be filled in no time but looking into it you're looking at around $50 million. But development costs have come down so hopefully not as much. The stories been written just make it into a game!!!. Would be perfect for XBLA

Do it!! :)
arry_g

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by arry_g »

As someone who never played this games (they passed me by) and the fact that a load of people are sad every E3 that a new game is not announced, please can someone explain to me what Shenmue is, why people love it so much and why it is so unfortunate that I never played them?
User avatar
chase210
Member
Posts: 1075
Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 11:22 am

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by chase210 »

Its an open world action adventure game (use that term loosely) about a called Ryo on a quest for vengeance after the killing of his father. People are nostalgic for it cos for the time it looked amazing (I never saw it at the time mind), it was arguably a prototype for other open world games like GTA, and its an extremely unique experience, amazing attention to detail, and some people managed to get engaged by the story. Also brought the QTE to peoples attention, although it didn't invent it neither.

I'm not a fan personally.
User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3689
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Shenmue, Shenmue II and the future of Shenmue

Post by DomsBeard »

It's difficult to explain. I've played a lot of videogames but only a few make me think WOW. Shenmue is one of these. At the time I hadn't played anything like it and it seemed huge with infinite possibilities. Go and play Super Hang On, darts and the QTE stuff were things I'd never seen before. My posts from 2012/13 sum it up well.
Post Reply