Spec Ops: The Line

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ratsoalbion
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Spec Ops: The Line

Post by ratsoalbion »

Hey, does anyone have anything they want to say about this 'anti-war shooter' before we record a podcast about it on Thursday 7th February?

Of course the conversation doesn't have to stop there either.
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Alex79
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Alex79 »

This has been on my 'need to play' list for a few months now, after hearing Dan Dawkins praise for it on the late great PSM3 podcast. I managed to get a copy last weekend and started it last night. I've only played about 45 minutes so far, but enjoying it. The main character has started to question his part in the war which seems like it's going to lead on to a pretty interesting story. Really looking forward to seeing how it pans out. I'll also be looking forward to listening to this podcast, but I'll be making sure I finish the game first!

3 word review - A promising start!
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James
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by James »

The intent is clear throughout the narrative of Spec Ops: The Line; this game is a commentary on war and combat in video games just as much as Apocalypse Now is a commentary on war and combat in films. I cannot help admire Yager Development's lofty ambition in crafting something more than a run-of-the-mill shooter in the Call Of Duty or Gears Of War style. The choices, in particular, are handled with so much subtlety that it isn't even really apparent that they are inflexion points at all. Add to that a deftly-handled unreliable narrator and there are several layers to be peeled back throughout the game and afterwards.

That said, I cannot help wonder at the flimsy gameplay. During my research into the story I saw several attempts to paint the dodgy shooting, cover and movement as intentional facets of the narrative subtext. It's one thing to make the player feel the relentless rinse-and-repeat nature of mowing down wave after wave of enemies, but I haven't found combat in a shooter to be this tiresome and dull since Uncharted (I know, I'm sorry). It should be perfectly possible to make the combat mechanics interesting without compromising the need for the player to feel the jarring disconnect between their actions and the character they are playing. I just can't subscribe to the notion that the disconcertingly poor combat was intentional - I have to call a spade a spade and lambaste a mechanically poor game as and when I see it.

Spec Ops: The Line could prove to be very important in its influence regarding narrative and player choice, but so much of the rest of the experience feels half-finished.
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delb2k
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by delb2k »

If Spec Ops was in school it would be the kid that tried, the kid that had the grandest of aims but ultimately the kid that came home with the C and a list of notes on what to do better next time.

Yagers aim is one that other developers should aspire to. An attempt to convey the distress of war, of guilt and of having to do things no man should ever be asked to do and what that could do to him. But in order for this to work it has to transcend into the person playing and not simply become an action completed by an avatar but one where that burden is felt on the couch.

Sometimes it works, and it works well. There are multiple moments where the guilt and the confusion of anger were apparent in the choices I made. Other times it felt too wrote and enforcing the wrong option for the wrong options sake. As horrible and guilt inducing as the phosphorous was I would dearly have liked to have the ability to choose the other option, and I am not convinced the game would have suffered too badly for that due to the water incident later.

I will say the environment design and layout was very good though, the driving sandstorms and baking dessert mixed with grander interiors was fantastic, and very different, to fight through. Especially with environmental attacks, sometimes learning how to use what was in front of you created a great sense of cunning.

I really wished they had been cleverer with the scripting of the colleagues. Re-playing older sections there were lots of chances to indicate what the player saw was not the truth but the writing just felt weak at those points for the other two.

The problem is when the meat of the game took over, when the standard shooting starts that characterisation is diluted what is left is a quite normal 3rd person lock and pop title where once again the simple aim is to clear a path of sprawling bodies to get to the next checkpoint. There is nothing clever attempted here, nothing to further re-enforce the trauma played out in the quasi cutscenes. Instead you are another tank with nothing to distinguish yourself from the crowd.

Spec Ops keenly shows why trying to transfer a state of mind to a player is one of the hardest acts to pull off. It is not something that can be switched off and on without detriment, but that is what this title tried to do by leaving the shooting as just shooting. If they had found a mix this could have been ground braking. Instead it is a solid, and interesting, marker on that journey.
Todinho

Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Todinho »

To me spec ops works better as an statement than a game,the message it's trying to convey is hindered by the overall quality of the game but even so I still found it very compelling and if anything Yager's effort deserves an A, but what impressed me the most about spec ops were the small things like how the game gives the player's choice,how capt Nolan north speech during fights changes from the begining of the game,where he's very professional and like every random shotter protagonist,to the end where he starts sounding more and more like an angry Xbox live user,I also really liked the 4th wall breaking moments that tried to mess with your head reminding me a little of the Metal Gear series and last I found the setting of Dubai very interesting and well realized,that to me was a great choice that helped me go through the rather cliché begining of the game.Hopefully more games will take a page from spec ops and improve on it but for now it was refreshing to see another "war game" other than Metal gear have a more critical view on the subject.
and my 3 word review- worth the effort
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by SnakeyDave »

I think I like the intention of Spec Ops moreso than its execution as a whole. Where it succeeds most isn't in its wry commentary about the military shooter video games, where it's often just a shade too unsubtle, the excellently framed moral choices, or the reveals at the game's climax, but rather the feeling of consequence and emotional impact throughout. The act of killing in this game is horrific, as it should be, and seeing your actions weigh upon the characters is the game's greatest achievement. Whether the game succeeds in its entirety is questionable, certainly some might find the gameplay dry, though personally I found it engaging enough, but even considering its flaws, it was this human element, absent in literally every other military shooter, and most other games I've ever played, that makes it a success.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by AndyKurosaki »

Personally I really enjoyed Spec Ops, even though I was a bit dubious with it's dodgy name and "yet another war game" appearance. I ended up really enjoying the campaign, though like the developers, I had no interest in the multiplayer. It's not often a game throws the consequences of your actions in your face, but the White Phosphor incident certainly did.

While not a Triple A game, it certainly deserved to do better than it did. It's certainly a better game than, say Homefront
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Sean »

Not to repeat what other have already said, but, I agree that the theme and message of the game, far outweighs the the gameplay.

My one major gripe with it, though, are the loading screens. I felt they were a little too on-the-nose, and, towards the end, actually insulting to players. I get that they were pretty much aimed at making you feel bad for wanting to play this, but, it felt a little hypocritical to me, to ask people to pay $60 for a game, and, then call them a piece of shit for wanting to play it.

I guess you could say that anti-war art (movies / tv / books / whathaveyou) always costs something, but, $60 is a lot to pay for a sermon. The message was clear enough from the story and dialogue. The loading screens actually calling you, the player, a bad person, felt unnecessary, to me.

You might even say they.......crossed THE LINE. ::hands in resignation::
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Sean »

Oh! Also, quick note, this is clearly Nolan North's best performance to date. People always complain about him being in everything, but, there's a reason for that - he's one the best in the biz.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by mikeleddy83 »

One thing that irritated me with the game was the small glimpses of bullet time after getting a kill, I'm not sure how many chains you can get from these temporary slow downs but I think the gameplay would've benefitted from just giving you a bullet time button instead, I guess it's used to add emphasis to thinking about the life you just took but I just constantly tried to shoehorn it into the experience as a gameplay mechanic.

That sums up my emotional journey with the game, I'd heard good things in advance and went into it thinking Apocalypse Now but it never really matched my expectations, I'll admit the hanging decision was tense and the radio tower murder quite unexpected but I'd happily glide over to a (pretty fun) on-rails massacre shortly after and the hooks never seemed to be set in place.

Despite the negative points I enjoyed what I played and it's short playing time made it a perfect rental.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by mikeleddy83 »

I avoided putting this in before as I'm not sure anybody actually asks questions on the podcast but I'm pretty sure it's decent forum fodder:
Spoiler: show
One small side-question I have is regarding the violence in this game, I recently saw a video in a popular online series showing a man blowing his brains out in order to demonstrate what violence actually is. I found it pathetic that such extreme lengths should be taken to demonstrate the obvious differences of a 3d model head suddenly dissappearing, masked with small 2d blood animations compared to a person baring his soul in the last few seconds of his life before an emotionally scarring and deeply shocking death, is there any chance the transparency of ketchup in games is clouding my emotional attachment to what many may find to be a harrowing recreation of war (given that the video I saw made my gut drop)?
On second thoughts it's probably already been discussed too much.
Todinho

Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Todinho »

mikeleddy83 wrote:I avoided putting this in before as I'm not sure anybody actually asks questions on the podcast but I'm pretty sure it's decent forum fodder:
Spoiler: show
One small side-question I have is regarding the violence in this game, I recently saw a video in a popular online series showing a man blowing his brains out in order to demonstrate what violence actually is. I found it pathetic that such extreme lengths should be taken to demonstrate the obvious differences of a 3d model head suddenly dissappearing, masked with small 2d blood animations compared to a person baring his soul in the last few seconds of his life before an emotionally scarring and deeply shocking death, is there any chance the transparency of ketchup in games is clouding my emotional attachment to what many may find to be a harrowing recreation of war (given that the video I saw made my gut drop)?
On second thoughts it's probably already been discussed too much.
My theory as of why:
Spoiler: show
You're referring to the jimquisition video if im not mistaken,yeah showing that in he video was a little extreme but it served to prove a point,and it may be the reason that you didnt really found much in spec ops after all cartoon violence can never get what true violence is but honestly I think your problem was one of imersion if im honest.You said the game annoyed you in many repects and that you went in with high expectations,all of this may have affected how you felt during the game for instance I went almost blind to the game and despite it's flaws found it very affecting(not apocalypse now levels but I was still pretty upset by the end)Imersion it's the most important thing in a game if you dont get it nothing the game tries to say to you will really mean much I think.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by Alex79 »

Sean wrote:Oh! Also, quick note, this is clearly Nolan North's best performance to date. People always complain about him being in everything, but, there's a reason for that - he's one the best in the biz.
Doh, I KNEW I recognised the voice! >_<
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Post by furyac3 »

While listening to the show i felt i should throw my 10 pence in so here i go ...

I wasn't going to buy the game on day 1 esp after the so so demo which had me asking if it was really worth £40 if my cash but the night before it came out i went on the twitter machine and asked "Should i get Spec ops the line tomorrow"

Over all the standard answers like its a shoot and you like shooters fair that i got for the usual suspects i got a reply from a someone i didn't know

it was a reply from Jan David Hassel (hes a was dev on the game) so ever the budding games writer i am when i saw this i was like a what the hell i'll get it and review it and then get back to him and say it was pish and it would give my review a nice wee edge but what happened was this...

http://www.girlgamersuk.com/2012/07/spec-ops-the-line/

(please over look the fact it written in crayon)

ye never judge a book by it cover and all that.

(o you should fire Jan David Hassel a tweet about the cast guys hes aways happy to RT / talk about anything to do with the game so i've found and is an all round nice chap)
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