Whatcha Been Playing?

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 2326
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 2:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits » February 16th, 2019, 7:39 am

Hahahahaha, that’s funny.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 16th, 2019, 8:53 am

😆

User avatar
Beck
Member
Posts: 631
Joined: September 4th, 2012, 1:50 pm

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Beck » February 16th, 2019, 9:00 am

We are not worthy :lol:

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 16th, 2019, 9:02 am

dezm0nd wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 5:28 am
Nintendo have often made games "for adults".

From Animal crossing to, Xenoblade Chronicles to Zelda.

May I introduce you to Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Breath of the Wild...

Bit of a silly thing to say. I'm assuming you meant "mature themes" as I've enjoyed Nintendos library from childhood to adulthood into fatherhood
At 46, I find that stuff like Astral Chain and Daemon X looks and feels rather adolescent, whereas Mario, Zelda, Pikmin et al continue to appeal and delight. Age, maturity (or intellect) has nothing to do with it.

User avatar
duskvstweak
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: August 23rd, 2017, 4:40 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by duskvstweak » February 16th, 2019, 3:18 pm

Yeah, you could just pick up a SNES Mini and see that. Just play Link to the Past and Super Metroid, nothing non-adult about those games. I mean, even both series' first NES entries are as adult as anything else that came out back then.

User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 467
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 9:57 pm
Location: Bradford, ON, Canada

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Magical_Isopod » February 16th, 2019, 3:23 pm

ratsoalbion wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 9:02 am
dezm0nd wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 5:28 am
Nintendo have often made games "for adults".

From Animal crossing to, Xenoblade Chronicles to Zelda.

May I introduce you to Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Breath of the Wild...

Bit of a silly thing to say. I'm assuming you meant "mature themes" as I've enjoyed Nintendos library from childhood to adulthood into fatherhood
At 46, I find that stuff like Astral Chain and Daemon X looks and feels rather adolescent, whereas Mario, Zelda, Pikmin et al continue to appeal and delight. Age, maturity (or intellect) has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, I don't really see the appeal of Nintendo's Candyland-looking stuff. Like, I liked Mario 3D World and Wool Yoshi, but those games stood on their mechanical merits. Nintendo's Switch lineup up til now has definitely been a children-first approach with the same familiar IPs we've seen a million times and new IPs that deliberately take a "safety scissors" approach to well-established genres (Arms, Splatoon, etc.).

What you see as "adolescent," I see as flashy and intensely exciting. What you see as "all ages", I see as "made for the whitebread nuclear family," like a Disney Land vacation package.

My big problem with Nintendo in recent years is just how eye-rollingly infantile their games have become in some ways. Forced tutorials that treat the player like a massive idiot, an extreme aversion to anything "out of brand" - like, I guarantee we'll never see another Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess, as that's too "edgy" for their brand image. And then the last two generations of Pokemon (and I'm a huge Pokemon fan) significantly reducing the difficulty to a point where the games are just dull as hell to play through, where nothing forces you to think critically...

I'm just not a Nintendo fan. They've made a TON of games, and a handful have been great. But I'm far more interested in the creativity of "adolescent" games than hyper-sanitized corporate products.

User avatar
duskvstweak
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: August 23rd, 2017, 4:40 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by duskvstweak » February 16th, 2019, 3:56 pm

I mean, I liked Nintendo games I'm not from a Nuclear Family. And, considering they're a Japanese company, I don't think they are either...

And "too edgy" for their brand? Aren't they responsible for Bayonetta 3 even happening? Didn't DOOM and Wolfenstein get ported to the Switch? And how is Breath of the Wild less "edgy" than Twilight Princess.

I get Nintendo not being someone's thing, but there comes a point where you're insulting the players more than the company. Nintendo is a "brand" like you say, and they're not incomparable to Disney, but there's plenty of adults who like Disney for it's storytelling, song writing and animation quality and that has nothing to do with "safety scissors" or being "infantile" And, like Disney, Nintendo are one of the masters of their field. Just because they make games that are for all ages, that doesn't diminish the quality at all. Mario's tight controls are legendary, something to be striven for in ANY game.

User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 467
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 9:57 pm
Location: Bradford, ON, Canada

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Magical_Isopod » February 16th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Nintendo too often gets a pass for making bad games "because Nintendo". Breath of the Wild being Exhibit A. A woefully outdated open world snoozefest with game design choices other games are derided for (glass weapons, big empty world, recycled textures) but it all gets a pass because it's "Nintendo". The way people talk about this company, you'd think they could do no wrong. This is a company whose fanbase defended Wii Music for christ sakes. "It's supposed to be for *everyone*!"

Also, I'm not talking about Nintendo, the console manufacturer. More Nintendo, the developer. 20 fps 480p ports of M-rated shooters isn't outside the norm - after the first Mortal Kombat, they really loosened up on their strangehold of "mature" content. But outside of the Metroid series - one they've clearly shown they have no respect for - everything is saccharine and predictable to its detriment.... I mean, just look at the horrendous art direction of that Link's Awakening remake. It's like angles and edges are banned at Nintendo now, everything has to look like a Disney Tsum Tsum. No me gusta.

User avatar
Flabyo
Member
Posts: 2987
Joined: August 8th, 2013, 6:46 am
Location: Guildford

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Flabyo » February 16th, 2019, 5:56 pm

See now you just sound like you’re trolling.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 16th, 2019, 6:08 pm

I agree with everything Eric says, the ‘nuclear whitebread’ was an absurd thing to say, and quite insulting to the millions of people who don’t subscribe to that demographic but who continue to embrace Nintendo’s output.

People who think that others give Nintendo games an ‘easy ride’ because they’re Nintendo games clearly don’t understand how fandom works. Remember how Star Wars fans gave The Last Jedi a universal thumbs up because it was Star Wars and had Luke Skywalker in it? Super Mario Sunshine continues to disappoint me 17 years on because I felt they really dropped the ball with that one.

I’m currently continuing Breath of the Wild for the show. It is one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I have ever had.

I played all of the Zelda games for the show. I loved some of them, while others I found a bit of a slog at times. I reported back as such on the show, and nothing that I didn’t like was given a pass because of its developer or franchise.

Breath of the Wild has some curious design decisions which I think might be addressed in the next game, but overall I find it to be a stunning, magical experience.

As with every game in the series (and every game series) other people (such as M_I above, and Leah and Sean from the podcast team) don’t like it, and that is of course fine and expected.

However I resent the suggestion that my critical faculties are somehow impaired. No, I just happen to concur with the 70-odd reviewers (and many other people I know) who also genuinely love the game.

As for the art direction of the LA remake, well, I have seen a few naysayers, but I’ve read far more fans of the original expressing their joy and glee and what they view as an aesthetically beautiful reimagining.



tl;dr:

It doesn’t concern me that different people like different things - that’s normal and interesting to think about and discuss.

What I’m not cool with (especially on this forum) is folk suggesting that others are somehow ‘wrong’ (or deluded and/or disingenuous) for enjoying games that they themselves do not.

That’s not how we roll here, and we certainly don’t cast sweeping, prejudiced, reductive and ignorant aspersions on their social status based on their proclivities.

User avatar
KSubzero1000
Member
Posts: 2456
Joined: August 26th, 2015, 7:56 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 » February 16th, 2019, 6:32 pm

I mean, look.

I think Isopod could work on his delivery a little, but there is also a decent argument to be made that Nintendo have softened some of their edges in both mechanical and narrative designs in recent years, at least when it comes to certain series.

Fire Emblem went from being tough and unforgiving games with tragic stories dealing with deceptively mature themes and grounded geopolitics to light-hearted anime comedies about goofy teenagers flirting with each other all day long that anybody can grind and brute-force their way through without much strategy.

The last two mainline Metroid titles (Corruption & Samus Returns) noticeably scaled back the exploration aspect of previous games and streamlined a lot of their features, making them significantly easier and less taxing to play through.

F-Zero, arguably the most "hardcore" series in the Nintendo repertoire, has been abandoned entirely.

Meanwhile, most of the family-friendly Nintendo crowd pleasers like 3D Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Mario Kart, Kirby, SSB, are as healthy as they've ever been.

Now don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with family-friendly entertainment. A good Mario game (like a good Disney movie) is perfectly enjoyable at any age, and that is certainly one of the core qualities of the series. My knowledge of Zelda being very limited, I can't really comment on Majora's Mask. But when I look at something like FE4 with its hyper challenging maps and borderline-Game of Thrones subject matter, then I have to admit that I'd be very surprised to see modern-day Nintendo release anything of that nature. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.


PS: Perhaps my perspective is skewed because it's the series that I'm the most fond of that happen to be affected by this.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 16th, 2019, 6:40 pm

I agree, there is something in the idea that Nintendo’s output has become more ‘safe’ and focus-tested, although for my money things have improved considerably in this respect since the Wii era.

I do miss the curios and darker atmospheric experiments of the past for sure.

However that doesn’t make it cool to pretty much personally insult those of us who still enjoy the company’s output.

Listen, despite what I said about the Wii era (above), I still prefer Galaxy to Odyssey, for its at times slightly off-kilter tone and free-wheeling imagination.

Breath of the Wild’s twee storytelling and voice acting doesn’t work for me either, but there is so much else for me to admire and embrace.

I would love to see F-Zero - and Pilotwings - make triumphant returns.

User avatar
Michiel K
Moderator
Posts: 890
Joined: October 13th, 2015, 7:37 pm

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Michiel K » February 16th, 2019, 6:42 pm

Yeah KSub, that's just FE (and the lack of anything F-Zero of course!), where I of course agree with you. Isopod's Exhibit A is my Exhibit A of a counterpoint to Nintendo's soft edges. The way that game drops you in the deep harkens back straight to the NES days. We'll discuss all of that on the upcoming podcast.

This might have been a stronger argument during the Wii days (for the most part), but since the Wii U they've been releasing some of their greatest games, from my perspective.

But like Leon said, it's not about not liking Nintendo here, it's about suggesting that those that do are at best disingenuous.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 16th, 2019, 6:44 pm

Also also, I agree about the trend of ‘softening’ game design to include (or at least not intimidate) the broader audience, but it is certainly not only Nintendo which is ‘guilty’ of that, it’s an industry wide ‘malaise’, at least in AAA.

User avatar
Suits
Member
Posts: 2326
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 2:25 pm
Location: Chelmsford, UK

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits » February 16th, 2019, 7:01 pm

Excellent discussion here lads 👍🏽.

User avatar
DomsBeard
Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 3:03 pm
Location: Doms Chin

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by DomsBeard » February 16th, 2019, 10:31 pm

I have been playing Tetris 99 :D

User avatar
Craig
Member
Posts: 569
Joined: October 25th, 2015, 12:04 pm

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Craig » February 17th, 2019, 12:04 am

“Nintendo is finally making a game for adults!” is a tired argument that comes up time after time whenever they release a game that isn’t colourful and shiny.

It happened in the GameCube era with things like Eternal Darkness.

In the Wii era with Mad World.

In the WIiU era with Bayonetta.

In the Switch era with Skyrim.

These are not the only games they’ve happened with. Nintendo have always been putting out games aimed at a slightly older market. Whether these games are safe is another matter entirely.

But really, the argument is not about “Nintendo is making games for little kids!” And more “Nintendo isn’t making games for me!”

Things like Brain Age, Wii Fit, Wii Sports or Art Academy are never brought up when it comes to discussing Nintendo’s mature content, despite them explicitly being targeted at an older audience. The Wii has a reputation for being a grandma console, while Nintendo still have the reputation of being for kids. They even released a whole version of their DS console to target older players.

But that’s the key. Because the older players here means outside of the 15-30 demographic, it doesn’t count and is derrided.

Being family friendly is hardly not for adults. One of the reason the Switch is so popular right now is because many parents are buying to play with their kids (which is why most first party games have co-op.) If that’s not for you, that’s fine, but there are and have been plenty of experiences on Nintendo consoles outside of the bright graphics. And if you want to talk about games for adults, I probably would use a better example than one with a police officer running around in hot pants.

User avatar
ratsoalbion
Admin
Posts: 6916
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:41 am
Location: Brighton, England
Contact:

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion » February 17th, 2019, 12:07 am

Craig wrote:
February 17th, 2019, 12:04 am
“Nintendo is finally making a game for adults!” is a tired argument that comes up time after time whenever they release a game that isn’t colourful and shiny.

It happened in the GameCube era with things like Eternal Darkness.

In the Wii era with Mad World.

In the WIiU era with Bayonetta.

In the Switch era with Skyrim.
So true. Also in the SNES era with things like (non Nintendo games) Doom and Mortal Kombat II.

User avatar
dezm0nd
Moderator
Posts: 3813
Joined: August 28th, 2012, 7:48 am
Location: Leighton Buzzard

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by dezm0nd » February 17th, 2019, 7:46 am

Had a run of tapas but finally put a stop to it and started to focus on something new.

Finally got into Steamworld Heist and it's just as good as Dig and its sequel. The announcement of Quest inspired me to start it properly and i'm really enjoying it.

I'll keep on playing Sea of Thieves, Apex, Crackdown 3 when I see the right people online and i'm up for it but for now, it's Steamworld Heist and Tetris 99...

Of which I just got my first win!

User avatar
Magical_Isopod
Member
Posts: 467
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 9:57 pm
Location: Bradford, ON, Canada

Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Magical_Isopod » February 17th, 2019, 8:07 am

I apologize if anyone felt personally admonished by my commentary. Genuinely wasn't my intent. I have a lot of difficulty criticizing things without going a little aggro, which is a weird mental quirk I still don't know how to reconcile. What seems like fair honesty to me comes off as alienating to others, and it seems to be unique to online communication -- my best guess is that people are able to correct me mid-sentence IRL when they see linguistic faults I don't.

Anyway. Been playing Metro: Exodus and I'm loving the hell out of it. I went into more (spoiler-free) detail on the discussion topic I started for it, but I'm getting such a kick out of how it's not "Metro 3: Another One". Everything that changes is changed for the sake of the narrative, and it's so nice to have a story in the era of long-form TV fiction where the plot actually evolves and goes somewhere from where it started. Highly, highly recommend this one (unless you prefer twitch shooters where run and gun is your preferred play style - this one's all about awareness of your surroundings).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests