Whatcha Been Playing?

[Magical_Isopod]

I don't really understand people's issues with the combat in Witcher 3. You mash the sword button until the thing fighting you dies. You find better sword and better armour to kill the thing fighting you faster. It's great. What I DON'T like is games like Bloodborne and Bayonetta where you MUST, no exceptions, master an obtuse and convoluted combat systems for hours before you can even stand a fighting chance of beating the games. And that, honestly, is the absolute pits when it comes to game design. I can forgive clunky Witcher combat. I legit find it more enjoyable than games that are obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.

[KSubzero1000]

What I DON'T like is games like Bloodborne and Bayonetta where you MUST, no exceptions, master an obtuse and convoluted combat systems for hours before you can even stand a fighting chance of beating the games. And that, honestly, is the absolute pits when it comes to game design.

Ahem... what?

There is absolutely no need to master any convoluted system in order to beat Bayonetta. The game is actually very accommodating in comparison to most other character action games. You can easily survive any fight by repeating PKP over and over again and tap the dodge button as soon as the enemies telegraph any of their attacks.

It won't give you any of the more prestigious medals and it's obviously not the way I would recommend playing the game, but to claim that Bayonetta is somehow expecting mechanical mastery from the player on its default difficulty setting is a rather odd statement to make in my opinion.

Even Bloodborne is hardly what I would call "obtuse and convoluted". I don't recall any enemy that would require you to use the Visceral Attacks save for some of the boss finisher moves, for example. You can just hit and dash your way through 99% of the game if that's what you prefer.

You mash the sword button until the thing fighting you dies.

I don't mean to be facetious, but is that your idea of a good combat system? Genuinely curious.

[Magical_Isopod]

If it looks cool, yeah. At least for action games. Give it some variety, but games that are just hard for the sake of hard are a total waste of time in my opinion.

[Michiel K]

Hm. I often (though definitely not always and exclusively so) feel the other way around: if a game doesn't have interesting deeper systems and mechanics to learn and engage with, offers no friction and doesn't demand of me to develop tactics and solve problems, but just wants to tell me a passive story, it's a waste of my time and I'm better off picking up a book or watching a film or TV series.

I completely understand people not looking for that type of thing at all in games. They're so multifaceted and we all enjoy them for different reasons. And maybe it's just the way you tend to express yourself, but I don't get the sense you understand people (of course not difficulty gatekeeping assholes) who do look for a challenge or depth of mechanics in their video games from your posts when you use words like 'arbitrary' and 'convoluted' as if they naturally precede the words you combine them with..?

[Magical_Isopod]

I am admittedly pretty socially isolated, and have been most of my life, so I don't exactly have a tremendous talent for nuance. However, I would say that I can only speak from my subjective interpretation of the world around me - my natural inclination is to speak authoritatively, in an objective tense, but anything I'm saying is purely personal opinion. How could it be anything but? I'd be wary of anyone who claims to have objective opinions, no matter their tone. I do try to watch how I phrase things, but I don't always catch it, as I tend to write from an inner monologue; in real life, I rely heavily on the expressions of others to adjust tone accordingly. Such luxuries don't exist online.

[Michiel K]

Yeah, I get that you are expressing your subjective opinion, as everyone on here is, and you shouldn’t have to preface or conclude everything with ‘in my opinion’, but you are using the most outrageous and extreme hyperbole to express it with and that is not without effect or impact.

When you write that a 1993 16-bit platformer’s difficulty is ‘arbitrary’ even though if I would have bought it that year I would have been pretty upset if I was able to breeze through it in an hour or two...

When you write that a certain developer, publisher and hardware manufacturer makes safe games for nuclear families...

When you write that a company’s general design philosophy of action games with layered systems and mechanical depth, something that the men and women of that company have pretty much dedicated their lives to, as I know from interviews, delving into the games themselves and even some personal dealings, is ‘the absolute pits in game design’...

Well, then your particular choice of words become loaded with what comes off as a lack of consideration at best and straight up disrespect to the makers and their audiences at worst.

Not trying to tell you you should switch up your posting style, of course, but I do want to make you aware of the impact of your chosen vocabulary and the effect that your authoritatively expressed opinion can have on readers of your posts.

In my opinion.

[Suits]

I had a good crack at some games on Game Pass that I missed recently.

Metro Exodus – I was in the mood for a corridor shooter and this piqued my interest when it first came out but other things got in the way. I wasn’t feeling this at all sadly. Too much creeping and sneaking about when I was in the mood for a big lairy shooter. It kinda looked nice but of the few hours I played, it was enough for me to understand that it wasn’t my thing.

Just for further reference I never really got on with the previous games.

Outer Wilds – Well, this is massively beloved game and I got fed up of waiting for a Switch version so played it on Game Pass. I did one loop and get its angle a bit more now. I wasn’t in the mood for it at the time but now I have a remedy for when this itch raises its head again.

I liked the idea of no weapons and just exploring space, with the progress being understanding.

Bloodstained – Not a fan of this. I’m not too keen on the art design and it all just seems a little too busy. I also find it pretty easy, I’m confidant that it will get thicker later on but things just weren’t sticking with me like I thought they would.

Another daft thing is that I constantly keep reaching for the analogue stick on the Xbox controller, when I want to be using the D-pad and the D pad on the Xbox I don’t find particularly enjoyable to use.

I’ve also been messing around with some PC Engine and PS1 stuff which has been fun.

[Michiel K]

You’ve got a PC Engine, Suits?

[Suits]

You’ve got a PC Engine, Suits?

Not quite yet.

I’ve sort of settled on a PC Engine CD ROM2 but I’m stalling a little.

I’ll have (well, don’t HAVE too) to get It re-capped, and RGB modded and while it’s with Simon get it power transformed to save using a camera step down converter - which isn’t a problem, it’s just another hurdle.

I have a System 2 card already and Akumajo Dracula X on the way.

Just a couple of other little things to satisfy and sort and it’ll be rad.

[Jon Cheetham]

Continued with Dishonored 2 and it remains excellent. Completed level 3, The Good Doctor, still non-lethal and only 1 kill. The non-lethal solution for this level was a lot of fun, too.

I ended up with quite a funny situation after beating the level and opening the "leave" option... I'd clocked a rune I wanted earlier on, but it was at a table that two guards were playing cards on, with a bunch of other guards loitering nearby. So after carefully sneaking around the building drawing as little attention as possible for 2hrs, I ended my time at the Addermire Institute by bursting into the dining room, grabbing the rune as shouting and chaos erupted around me, and beating a hasty exit out the window in a sort of Benny Hill sequence.

[Chopper]

I'm in a very weird place with Dishonored 2 in that I really like a lot about the game but the gameplay didn't really click with me. I finished it, and I was really impressed by it, but it seems I'm just not destined to get on with that brand of stealth.

In other news, I am still playing Outward. Still in the starting area. Started my fifth character last night. o_O

[Jon Cheetham]

I'm in a very weird place with Dishonored 2 in that I really like a lot about the game but the gameplay didn't really click with me. I finished it, and I was really impressed by it, but it seems I'm just not destined to get on with that brand of stealth.

That's fair enough, certainly took me some getting used to in the first game! I'm enjoying it so far and finding it rewarding eking out progress, but it will be fun to do a less stealthy run the second time through (whenever that will be), maybe Corvo and try with no powers.

[dezm0nd]

At the final boss of Plague Knight's campaign. Such a thrill experiencing these levels with different abilities etc. Really looking forward to Spectre next

[Alex79]

I'm in a very weird place with Dishonored 2 in that I really like a lot about the game but the gameplay didn't really click with me. I finished it, and I was really impressed by it, but it seems I'm just not destined to get on with that brand of stealth.

I felt exactly the same about the first game. Everything about it was clearly good, I just didn't really like it very much.

[Chopper]

I'm in a very weird place with Dishonored 2 in that I really like a lot about the game but the gameplay didn't really click with me. I finished it, and I was really impressed by it, but it seems I'm just not destined to get on with that brand of stealth.

I felt exactly the same about the first game. Everything about it was clearly good, I just didn't really like it very much.

And the second one is incredible compared to the first, but same result.

[OldBailey]

I'm in a very weird place with Dishonored 2 in that I really like a lot about the game but the gameplay didn't really click with me. I finished it, and I was really impressed by it, but it seems I'm just not destined to get on with that brand of stealth.

I felt exactly the same about the first game. Everything about it was clearly good, I just didn't really like it very much.

And the second one is incredible compared to the first, but same result.

I've played both to completion and feel the same way despite being games I should love on paper.

I feel like there's something missing in the design of the actual mission objectives that doesn't take advantage of the genuinely brilliant level and systems design. It rarely feels like the game forces you to get really creative with your toolset. It gives you so many options but not enough difficult and interesting problems to solve with them.

That and the story/lore was almost off-puttingly bland for me.

[Jon Cheetham]

I feel like there's something missing in the design of the actual mission objectives that doesn't take advantage of the genuinely brilliant level and systems design. It rarely feels like the game forces you to get really creative with your toolset. It gives you so many options but not enough difficult and interesting problems to solve with them.

That and the story/lore was almost off-puttingly bland for me.

That's interesting. The level design is indeed brilliant, but you make a good point that you can almost always proceed through it by relying on just a few of your main verbs. It does sometimes make me think that there is probably an interesting way I can manipulate the game's physics and systems to achieve my objective in a weird and wonderful way, but sneaking forward and slowly gaining ground is usually just the best option.

There are emergent moments I think are wonderful though. I beat The Clockwork Mansion last night. To get out of Lower Aventa I spent half an hour sneaking around a building to steal a key and code that my objectives journal was pushing me towards - I needed to get through the guard blockade and to the mansion. With these in hand I looked around for a way to sneak to the security panel, and noticed a series of pipes on the building I had just come out of. Since I had upgraded my Far Reach power, I was able to make leaps of faith out over drops to certain death and then slow in mid-air and "blink" to the pipes and platforms leading to the mansion, without dealing with any guards or the wall of light. I could have done this as soon as I had arrived in the area if I had wanted! It was very situational and I had to have upgraded that particular ability, but it was a really great "a-ha!" moment.

Some good stuff inside the mansion as well - I was getting one-shot by the clockwork soldiers, but managed to figure out that if you shoot their heads off they can't see you any more and will often attack anything, including each other, which made for a satisfying end to my being chased round the mansion. I also opened the path to Sokolov by pulling one of my collection of unconscious guards over to a pressure plate to keep the walls raised - I don't know how I would have got to him if I'd gone down the "kill 'em and turn 'em to ash" approach I went for in the first game.

In general it was a wonderful level with echoes of Portal - not just in the puzzle-based environment but the fact you have someone goading you over a loudspeaker, mockingly praising the progress you've made.

Also, these levels are gigantic compared to the first game! I am quite slow anyway as I like to check every drawer and read every note, but that level last night took me 2hr37m.

[Magical_Isopod]

I literally couldn't get past the first two guards in the dungeon in the first Dishonored. It felt like nothing I did worked and I'd get caught every time. Haven't given it a second attempt since, though it's in the 3 for $10 section at the local Microplay.

[OldBailey]

[

Some good stuff inside the mansion as well...

In general it was a wonderful level with echoes of Portal - not just in the puzzle-based environment but the fact you have someone goading you over a loudspeaker, mockingly praising the progress you've made.

My experience with this level was very different and speaks to both the game's strengths and also the problem I feel it has in it's mission design.

In the entranceway before you pull the lever to "activate" the mansion I noticed a skylight in the ceiling. I managed to blink up into to roof area and make my way to Jindosh(?) by using the spaces between the walls etc to reach him without alerting him to my presence.

On one hand the fact that this is even possible is impressive but on the other, I missed out on the experience you described above, skipping past most of what makes the level so memorable for some people.

There's a distinct lack of friction imposed by it's objectives whilst giving the player character almost godlike powers to achieve them.

Stuffing the levels with collectables and notes etc does encourage you to explore if you want to see everything but usually just resulted in me completing the mission, then trudging back through each area to find everything I'd missed which always felt anticlimactic.

[Jon Cheetham]

Damn that is a shame you didn't get a fuller experience, BaileyBoy. I have to say though, sounds like you should be a speedrunner! Nice job noticing that.

Magical_Isopod, that sounds rough. Some configurations of enemies can be real puzzlers, I can't remember the layout for the prison but it's a shame you bounced off the game so soon. There's always sprinting madly past, of course...