Next up on the show will be 2012's FEZ. We're recording on the 20th, so, feel free to leave your comments about Phil Fish's maddening puzzle-platformer, here and get your voice heard on the show!
Fez
Fez
Next up on the show will be 2012's FEZ. We're recording on the 20th, so, feel free to leave your comments about Phil Fish's maddening puzzle-platformer, here and get your voice heard on the show!
Re: This week's issue: FEZ
Great to hear this is next up, here are my thoughts...
Fez was my favourite game of 2012, and was a totally engrossing experience that I will remember for a long time. I didn't know a great deal going in, other than early reports were saying that there was more to Fez than meets the eye. From the start, the game managed to communicate that something unusual was going on. The strange glyphs that appeared all over the environment worked together with the mysterious soundtrack to allow the player to infer that there were multiple layers of puzzle happening here. Like Gomez, the player was invited to look past their initial perspective to discover more about this world.
What made Fez a really interesting experience was the sense of collective discovery, as various communities on the net were working towards cracking the codes and unravelling the secrets that were laced throughout the game. I was playing through sections until I was utterly stuck, but then trying to scan for clues about where I should be looking next. Although I had to look up some of the more obtuse solutions, which you could argue might dilute the experience, Fez had a feeling of zeitgeist about it, and the fact I could continue my journey without getting stuck to a point of frustration kept me engaged throughout.
It will remain one of my favourites on 360. I have kept the scrawled notes of dots and shapes I made whilst playing, and I still listen to the excellent soundtrack by Disasterpeace.
(Bit long, edit as needed!)
Fez was my favourite game of 2012, and was a totally engrossing experience that I will remember for a long time. I didn't know a great deal going in, other than early reports were saying that there was more to Fez than meets the eye. From the start, the game managed to communicate that something unusual was going on. The strange glyphs that appeared all over the environment worked together with the mysterious soundtrack to allow the player to infer that there were multiple layers of puzzle happening here. Like Gomez, the player was invited to look past their initial perspective to discover more about this world.
What made Fez a really interesting experience was the sense of collective discovery, as various communities on the net were working towards cracking the codes and unravelling the secrets that were laced throughout the game. I was playing through sections until I was utterly stuck, but then trying to scan for clues about where I should be looking next. Although I had to look up some of the more obtuse solutions, which you could argue might dilute the experience, Fez had a feeling of zeitgeist about it, and the fact I could continue my journey without getting stuck to a point of frustration kept me engaged throughout.
It will remain one of my favourites on 360. I have kept the scrawled notes of dots and shapes I made whilst playing, and I still listen to the excellent soundtrack by Disasterpeace.
(Bit long, edit as needed!)
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
Thanks for putting this up, Sean. Was just on my merry way to do this myself! 
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Roy42
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
I thought it was a good exploration game with an interesting gameplay hook, some nice puzzles and charming nods towards an older generation of gaming in more ways than just what's presented to you in the game. However nothing is going to make up for the terrible performance when I played it, with long load times and massive drops in frame rate in what are supposed to be seamless transitions between rooms or islands that culminated multiple times in total crashes that I had to reset the system for. There is zero excuse for that happening with any game.
The anti-cubes were Phil Fish's way of bringing the olden days of gaming when secrets and codes would be passed around by word of mouth in the schoolyard to the age of the Internet, only here it's the solutions to the more complex puzzles (read: The key to the cypher [which is NOT the same as making a new language]) that people might not have the patience for. I like the idea; I just wish it wasn't purely to get anti-cubes. Couldn't there have been a bunch of easter eggs that had no bearing on the game that were hidden so obscurely that the only way most people would find them would be through posts on forums that most people would overlook? The closest we get to that is the monolith, except then that's not hidden; it's made glaringly obvious, challenging players who had made it that far, creating the expectation that there would be something worthwhile beyond it, which, of course, wasn't the case. And while I'm sure someone could make the argument that that was supposed to be the point, in the same way that the stars in Braid are intentionally annoying to get, at that point it just becomes pretentious; and at least in Braid, the stars were hidden, but now I'm getting off-base in a paragraph that I didn't even have a clear direction that I was going with anyway.
Ultimately, Fez doesn't feel like the result of four years of work. I know Fish has said he basically remade the game four times, but the design is something that can still improve over each iteration, and it doesn't feel like it did. It looks nice, it sounds nice, and the way you can lose yourself down a rabbit hole of door after door in an initial playthrough, warp back to a hub area and try another path/look at the map and see just how far you went/check the time and realise you just walked around doing almost nothing to actively solve any puzzles for an hour is a testament to the immersive nature of the world that's been created, however I've played games with all of those strengths that took far less time to be released, and barring a conversation with Phil himself and a chance to play builds from the first three years of development, I'm steadfast in my opinion that it could have been a lot better for how long it took to come out and how much hype was built up around it.
The anti-cubes were Phil Fish's way of bringing the olden days of gaming when secrets and codes would be passed around by word of mouth in the schoolyard to the age of the Internet, only here it's the solutions to the more complex puzzles (read: The key to the cypher [which is NOT the same as making a new language]) that people might not have the patience for. I like the idea; I just wish it wasn't purely to get anti-cubes. Couldn't there have been a bunch of easter eggs that had no bearing on the game that were hidden so obscurely that the only way most people would find them would be through posts on forums that most people would overlook? The closest we get to that is the monolith, except then that's not hidden; it's made glaringly obvious, challenging players who had made it that far, creating the expectation that there would be something worthwhile beyond it, which, of course, wasn't the case. And while I'm sure someone could make the argument that that was supposed to be the point, in the same way that the stars in Braid are intentionally annoying to get, at that point it just becomes pretentious; and at least in Braid, the stars were hidden, but now I'm getting off-base in a paragraph that I didn't even have a clear direction that I was going with anyway.
Ultimately, Fez doesn't feel like the result of four years of work. I know Fish has said he basically remade the game four times, but the design is something that can still improve over each iteration, and it doesn't feel like it did. It looks nice, it sounds nice, and the way you can lose yourself down a rabbit hole of door after door in an initial playthrough, warp back to a hub area and try another path/look at the map and see just how far you went/check the time and realise you just walked around doing almost nothing to actively solve any puzzles for an hour is a testament to the immersive nature of the world that's been created, however I've played games with all of those strengths that took far less time to be released, and barring a conversation with Phil himself and a chance to play builds from the first three years of development, I'm steadfast in my opinion that it could have been a lot better for how long it took to come out and how much hype was built up around it.
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Sly Reflex
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
I came to Fez a while down the line, I really liked it aside from the few really oblique puzzles. Having something so complicated that you have to pool the whole player base to spam in command to work something out is bad. I know some might think that was clever, but I don't. A good puzzle should be able to be cracked by a player and the player themselves. Making something obscure or too difficult takes away the satisfaction of working something out. I had similar moments in Braid where I'd stumble across the answer to a problem and not understand how I got to that conclusion. It was more of a "Oh, OK" moment rather than "Ha, I got this!". It's a bit like someone telling you a joke where the execution is poorly contrived, so you end up not getting the joke.
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Roy42
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
And if, for example, a player (me) were to beat the rest of the game without needing help, only to find that the "final" puzzle is pure trial-and-error, not only is it a bad puzzle, but a dick move that sours the experience retroactively.Sly Reflex wrote:A good puzzle should be able to be cracked by a player and the player themselves.
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RoboticMonk3y
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- Location: Bristol
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
are you talking about completing 100%, or the extra puzzles beyond?
and how about the fact that while the final puzzle of the game wasn't solved in the way intended (and sure maybe that's an arrogant difficult spike rather than an elegantly developed difficulty curve), it was still solved in a way that brought a lot of people together.
The sheer internet buzz around fez, and all the people scrambling to solve it are what made it interesting for me. I remember working out a puzzle and the feeling of satisfaction that came along with it, then going to various forums and seeing where everyone else had got to, while frantically trying to avoid any kind of spoiler! (some people were better at giving flat out spoilers rather than hints)
Sure people took some potshots at the game performance, and want to poo poo the game for maybe not being polished to a bullet-proof sheen, but the game looked charming with a lovely audio track too! making it to the lighthouse will be a gaming moment that sticks with me for a while (I believe the track is called beacon). The wobbly glitchy 8-bit style soundtrack was a great compliment to the game.
I feel that a lot of people's problems with fez are somewhat of a marker for how games are largely digested these days. If a puzzle isn't instantly obvious, or a solution attainable in less than a couple of minutes, then the game is dismissed as 'badly made' or 'unpolished'.
I had a sheet of paper next to me while playing fez, it was littered with scrawlings from where I was trying to process the puzzles I was looking at. I spent ages trying to decipher the language code (on eventually finding the game's "Rosetta stone" it was a real face-palm moment for not spotting it sooner....)
TL;DR
Developers mis-placed comments aside, and a rather gutting game-save bug aside, Fez was a wonderful gaming experience which brought a lot of people together, which is surely a wonderful win for video games.
and how about the fact that while the final puzzle of the game wasn't solved in the way intended (and sure maybe that's an arrogant difficult spike rather than an elegantly developed difficulty curve), it was still solved in a way that brought a lot of people together.
The sheer internet buzz around fez, and all the people scrambling to solve it are what made it interesting for me. I remember working out a puzzle and the feeling of satisfaction that came along with it, then going to various forums and seeing where everyone else had got to, while frantically trying to avoid any kind of spoiler! (some people were better at giving flat out spoilers rather than hints)
Sure people took some potshots at the game performance, and want to poo poo the game for maybe not being polished to a bullet-proof sheen, but the game looked charming with a lovely audio track too! making it to the lighthouse will be a gaming moment that sticks with me for a while (I believe the track is called beacon). The wobbly glitchy 8-bit style soundtrack was a great compliment to the game.
I feel that a lot of people's problems with fez are somewhat of a marker for how games are largely digested these days. If a puzzle isn't instantly obvious, or a solution attainable in less than a couple of minutes, then the game is dismissed as 'badly made' or 'unpolished'.
I had a sheet of paper next to me while playing fez, it was littered with scrawlings from where I was trying to process the puzzles I was looking at. I spent ages trying to decipher the language code (on eventually finding the game's "Rosetta stone" it was a real face-palm moment for not spotting it sooner....)
TL;DR
Developers mis-placed comments aside, and a rather gutting game-save bug aside, Fez was a wonderful gaming experience which brought a lot of people together, which is surely a wonderful win for video games.
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
I love Fez even though I've only scratched the surface (think I've got 16 or so cubes and one anti?).I really enjoy playing it in short bursts and I've resisted using help/guides so far. Love the art style and the music is good if you fancy a chillout. I think if I sat and played it with a walkthrough it'd lose a lot of its magic for me so it'll probably sit with Braid under the "games I'll never finish" pile.
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
Still looking forward to playing this one day. I was about to get it on 360 when I heard it was coming to Vita so waiting for that now.
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SnakeyDave
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
Fez is an odd game for me; I loved my time with it but I don't think it's particularly successful as a puzzle platformer. The first half is a very gentle platforming collect em' up, full of discovery of, literally, what's around the next corner. Fez's world is a wonderful creation and clearly a labour of love, and an endearing tribute to the games that inspired it. There's huge pleasure in collecting cube bits, opening chests, and finding doors in this retro wonderland. The central world spinning mechanic is also very satisfying; it feels mischievously empowering to turn the world like a Rubik's cube. The problem for me lies in fact that the game doesn't really build on what appears to be its main mechanic.
Fez isn't really about perspective, its puzzles don't focus on the 2D/ 3D dichotomy of its world, save for some light traversal puzzles early on. The world spinning never evolves beyond rotating to find the next platform, or using it as an input method for a code. For the most part the puzzles are cute but distinct exercises in breaking cyphers, and while this was fun in an obtuse throwback kind of way, they were essentially superfluous to the initial world spinning conceit. Consequently, it doesn't have the tangible arc of a good puzzle game, where complexity is gradually introduced to twist and add to the central concept. There's just a lot of stuff to find, and while every manner in which you unlock a cube is fun, they're disparate. So while there's a consistently satisfying sense of discovery to the game, there isn't a sense of progression, rather just completion.
If one takes the game as a beautifully created nostalgic jaunt then it's brilliant. It's very enjoyable and full of ideas, but on reflection and stripped of the cultural buzz that it had at its launch the game mechanics doesn't quite stand up.
As a side note, of all the games that deal with perspective; Echochrome, Fez, Super Paper Mario, etc, this free indie game is easily the best.
http://www.seewithperspective.com/
Fez isn't really about perspective, its puzzles don't focus on the 2D/ 3D dichotomy of its world, save for some light traversal puzzles early on. The world spinning never evolves beyond rotating to find the next platform, or using it as an input method for a code. For the most part the puzzles are cute but distinct exercises in breaking cyphers, and while this was fun in an obtuse throwback kind of way, they were essentially superfluous to the initial world spinning conceit. Consequently, it doesn't have the tangible arc of a good puzzle game, where complexity is gradually introduced to twist and add to the central concept. There's just a lot of stuff to find, and while every manner in which you unlock a cube is fun, they're disparate. So while there's a consistently satisfying sense of discovery to the game, there isn't a sense of progression, rather just completion.
If one takes the game as a beautifully created nostalgic jaunt then it's brilliant. It's very enjoyable and full of ideas, but on reflection and stripped of the cultural buzz that it had at its launch the game mechanics doesn't quite stand up.
As a side note, of all the games that deal with perspective; Echochrome, Fez, Super Paper Mario, etc, this free indie game is easily the best.
http://www.seewithperspective.com/
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StuartPD
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
Looking forward to this issue. Will play along as I've not actually played it before. So I'm up for the challenge
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James
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Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
I heard from Karl that FEZ's aesthetic gave him headaches to the point that he had to stop playing. Has anyone else experienced this? It would be interesting to know how widespread the issue is.
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Benjo321
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
I'd been closely following the development of Fez since its win in the 2008 IGF awards, so it was something I was really looking forward to.
When it finally appeared, the game ended up being so much more than the cute pixel art platformer with a neat 3D perspective that originally sold me, and this was a very pleasant surprise indeed.
Scribbling notes like a deranged madman as I tried to decipher everything in the world is what I'll fondly remember this game for. When most games lead you down a path and show you everything the game has to offer, Fez rewards you for using your noggin and I found this to be extremely satisfying.
Although I have very fond memories of Fez, it's not something I have ever felt the need to go back and re-play. Maybe one day when my memory of the puzzles start to fade, but I think it'll be difficult to reproduce the feeling of discovering some of those secrets for the first time.
When it finally appeared, the game ended up being so much more than the cute pixel art platformer with a neat 3D perspective that originally sold me, and this was a very pleasant surprise indeed.
Scribbling notes like a deranged madman as I tried to decipher everything in the world is what I'll fondly remember this game for. When most games lead you down a path and show you everything the game has to offer, Fez rewards you for using your noggin and I found this to be extremely satisfying.
Although I have very fond memories of Fez, it's not something I have ever felt the need to go back and re-play. Maybe one day when my memory of the puzzles start to fade, but I think it'll be difficult to reproduce the feeling of discovering some of those secrets for the first time.
Re: This week's podcast: FEZ
(For anyone who has their interest piqued and didn't play it last year, Fez is on GOG sale at the moment: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/fez)
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JaySevenZero
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Re: Fez
It's been a long time coming but as it's finally arrived on the PS3, PS4 and Vita as a cross-buy title, I think I might endeavour to actually check this out this time 'round.
Re: Fez
Yep bought it for Vita yesterday. Looking forward to getting in to bed and playing it later because Fuck You social life! >_<
Re: Fez
I can't even get off the first bloody level >_< Cant find all the cube pieces!!
