All things Metal Gear (Solid)

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Alex79uk
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Alex79uk »

I've got a story question about the Metal Gear series in general, which I'll spoiler out for anyone who's never played any of the games at all :
Spoiler: show
I've played MGS 1, MGS 2, MGS 3 and I'm about two thirds through Peace Walker at the moment - after which I intend to play MGS 4, then GZ then MGS 5. I know that in MGS 1 Big Boss was the 'baddie' and Solid Snake was sent in to eliminate the threat. I also know that Solid Snake is a clone of Big Boss. Do we ever get to play through the events where Big Boss turns from relative good guy to the main antagonist, and also the point where the cloning and stuff takes place? Or does all that happen 'between games' so to speak?

Thanks :)

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ratsoalbion
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by ratsoalbion »

I'd say those events are depicted from the end of MGS3 (1964) and continue on through until the original Metal Gear (1995)?
I could be wrong about that though, one of you Metal Gear experts may correct me on this.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I also recommend that you pick up this soft-back publication, available in Smiths and other good newsagents:
https://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/ ... ear-solid/

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JaySevenZero
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by JaySevenZero »

Well...
Spoiler: show
...a lot of what you're asking about is actually part of the story behind V, at least where the cloning stuff is concerned. I haven't finished the game yet so I wouldn't know if we see his turn to the dark side so to speak. That said, it could actually play into how you play as Big Boss in the game too since you have the option not to kill pretty much everyone you encounter but if you rack up a body count it changes characters attitude towards you along with your appearance (the 'horn' in your skull).

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magicjoef
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by magicjoef »

Still really enjoying my time with MGS V, though I've heard things about base invasions later in the game, so I'm a bit paranoid about building up lots of stuff only to have it pillaged! Does anyone know if there is a way to opt out of that online part?

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by DomsBeard »

I picked up the Metal Gear special mentioned above and I'd recommend it.

I've also bought the hard copy of the guide too which had a great cover and is like an encyclopedia of the whole Metal gear series, more extensive maps too.

Been away so not had much chance but S ranked mission 5 after finishing mission 6.

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Cress1968
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Re: RE: Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Cress1968 »

magicjoef wrote:Still really enjoying my time with MGS V, though I've heard things about base invasions later in the game, so I'm a bit paranoid about building up lots of stuff only to have it pillaged! Does anyone know if there is a way to opt out of that online part?
They can't touch your mother Base online., only your forward operating bases, I've read tho that they can do this even when you're off line but your friends get alerted and they can come to the aid of your Base?... I'm stockpiling bloody every mortar and machine gun placement I find so I can ship them out to protect my forward bases once they are available!

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

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Todinho
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Todinho »

magicjoef wrote:Still really enjoying my time with MGS V, though I've heard things about base invasions later in the game, so I'm a bit paranoid about building up lots of stuff only to have it pillaged! Does anyone know if there is a way to opt out of that online part?
Remember you can also make direct contracts with your soldiers this way even if they get stolen in an FOB you still get to keep them because of...reasons,but at least this way you dont have to worry about losing your S++ soldier with a special skill you took so long to find,but remember you have a limit mine it's 75 I think.


So the credits rolled on my end but this is clearly not the end just like in Peace Walker when,luckly this time Kojima decided to warn people that there was more stuff after but I wonder if some complaints I've heard about the game story and pacing is due to people simply stopping after this point but I dont know,I also find it weird some people complaining there are no boss fights because there were a bunch from what I've seen the difference is that this time around most of them can be avoided if you want. Story overall Im feeling very ambivalent about but I think the characters are keeping me in it because I find most of them interesting and want to see what's gonna happen to them,the one thing in the story that really got to me tough was(spoilers of course make sure you have played until the credits roll)
Spoiler: show
The concept of the vocal cord parasite,congratulations Kojima you invented a disease more terrifying than FoxDie
So yeah Im just over 50% completion and developed the hand of Jehuty!Hearing Keifer scream "HAIDARA!" as he snatches enemies with it brings a smile to my face everytime :D

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magicjoef
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by magicjoef »

Cress1968 wrote: They can't touch your mother Base online., only your forward operating bases, I've read tho that they can do this even when you're off line but your friends get alerted and they can come to the aid of your Base?... I'm stockpiling bloody every mortar and machine gun placement I find so I can ship them out to protect my forward bases once they are available!
Todinho wrote:Remember you can also make direct contracts with your soldiers this way even if they get stolen in an FOB you still get to keep them because of...reasons,but at least this way you dont have to worry about losing your S++ soldier with a special skill you took so long to find,but remember you have a limit mine it's 75 I think.
Thanks for that. I don't have FOB open yet so I think I'm okay for now. I spent my time at the weekend going back and gathering resources now I can Fulton cargo and larger vehicles and weapons, so at least I have some defenses kicking around if I need them. Intrigued by this side of the game.

I'm going back to some main missions next time I play to move things along a bit.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

So, the only game I have been playing since August 26th is Metal Gear Solid V. I am 128 hours in and am only on mission 20, I have S Ranks and all objectives completed on missions so far. Needless to say, I quite like the game.

Something has been bothering me though, I won't spoiler tag it as I don't know if this is the case and I have no solid evidence to suspect as such...

Out of game, someone very dear to me suffers from PTSD and as result has a dissociative disorder. In her particular case, she represses a traumatic event and it manifests in fits, panic attacks hallucinations and memory inconsistency. These things are a coping mechanism. There are aspects of the way Boss is portrayed in MGSV that remind me of her condition, the way flashbacks are presented, the way certain muscles twitch or the eyes flicker and the way he very often looks like "the lights are on but no-one is home" in the chopper are examples. Painfully so in fact. There are also things that make me wonder if I am playing the Boss at all (again I get that this sounds insane but it is speculative and comparative to a situation I am dealing with outside of the game) or someone else at the epicentre of Ground Zero(es).

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Todinho
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Todinho »

That's actually a very good spot another thing that I noticed is that even though Boss is in his fifties and is still fit enough to do all kinds of crazy stunts when the camera zooms in on his face you can just see how worn down he is and I dont know why but when I look at him them he looks ancient,also people might not like the fact that he doesnt talk much but I think his body language says alot more then people think I noticed that while redoing some story missions and paying attention in the cutscenes.

Also Quiet can wear clothes now who knew! On other news Code Talker is now my favorite character in the game,one thing that's bothering me though is that too much of the plot is in the cassete tapes what's there is really good but I think it should be more on screen.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

So, story spoilers...
Spoiler: show
I stumbled across Paz at Motherbase this evening,I found her in a room on the Medical Deck. Kaz started to talk about her suffering from identity dissociation (one of a few branches of dissociation disorder) as well as repressed memories... and then Boss had a flashback himself and now we have a Boss with two memories of Ground Zeroes, one where Paz could conceivably survive and one where she could not. Where I was doubting what I wrote earlier as me interconnecting real life and the game I am now starting to doubt myself less.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

The credits have rolled as of last night (I mean the big credits, not the every fifteen to forty minutes credits ;)) and I am unsurprised to see the game has done what Peacewalker did albeit a more extreme version. In that the missions and story keeps coming and major plot factors are (as of going into Chapter Two) still in question.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

So, perhaps story spoilers perhaps speculation/fan theory regarding a character whose fate was presented in Ground Zeroes...
Spoiler: show
Dear place where I have randomly started to record MGS V musings,

Paz is bothering me!

Under the guise of PTSD/dissociation she is presented as having reverted to a previous personality but I can't shake the feeling that she is being presented as what Boss or Kaz thought she was rather than what she actually was.

Despite Ocelot and Kaz coming in and giving me the run down of the situation, the more I see her and the way she is presented the more I wonder if she really did survive or whether Boss' mind is shot to shit. She seems too much like the idealised version of herself, the version who Kaz and Boss bought wholesale.

Also, I don't trust Kaz! At least I know he isn't Liquid in a pair of shades though.

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Todinho
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Todinho »

Im really looking foward for you to get to the true ending to hear your thoughts on it however be aware that there's still story stuff to uncover after that too for example I still havent reached the end of the storyline you're mentioning.

Also the people who hated the ending are really going overboard with their hate there's even people that say the game is unfinnished just because it had cut content,like you know evey video game,it's kinda sad to see what clearly was a final love letter from Kojima to fans being shat on this way because people didnt see what they wanted from the man who's constantly subvertng players expectations,maybe it will be like MGS2 and people will apreciate it more over time.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

Todinho wrote:Im really looking foward for you to get to the true ending to hear your thoughts on it however be aware that there's still story stuff to uncover after that too for example I still havent reached the end of the storyline you're mentioning.

Also the people who hated the ending are really going overboard with their hate there's even people that say the game is unfinnished just because it had cut content,like you know evey video game,it's kinda sad to see what clearly was a final love letter from Kojima to fans being shat on this way because people didnt see what they wanted from the man who's constantly subvertng players expectations,maybe it will be like MGS2 and people will apreciate it more over time.
I'll keep going until I've bled the story dry. It is true that Kojima and his team often lack subtlety and can be heavy handed but I usually appreciate what he is trying to shoot for and there is something special here that is grabbing me and making my mind race in a way that it hasn't since MGS2. Especially as on top of the theme of vengeance (which I think is part of the reason for the 'V' motif used everywhere as the 5) I think there is a theme of identity woven into the game also and actually I think it's the more prevailing theme, it's everywhere, it is what is said, what is done, how the body language is presented but it is something that actually does have a degree of subtlety to it sometimes.

I've been keeping away from most other people's perceptions and have mostly been playing in a vacuum with the only exception being that I read the IGN and Eurogamer reviews and the fact is that regardless of what other people say I believe that this and Bloodborne are the two best games of this year and I can't see my next ten hours with the game seeing that change.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Truk_Kurt »

Would everyone say that mgs 5 is the most accessible in the series? I'm seriously considering getting it after all the praise it's been getting but have only played around 3 hours of mgs 2 and got frustrated with the stealth mechanics and being interrupted for cutscenes

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by arry_g »

Truk_Kurt wrote:Would everyone say that mgs 5 is the most accessible in the series? I'm seriously considering getting it after all the praise it's been getting but have only played around 3 hours of mgs 2 and got frustrated with the stealth mechanics and being interrupted for cutscenes
Short answer, it is the most accessible.

The Metal Gear-esq things that the series is known for are front-loaded and end-loaded with hours between longer cutscenes (of which there are not many) and most cutscenes being much shorter than previous entries. The long codec conversations of previous games are replaced by cassettes that can be accessed on-command and are designed so not to interrupt gameplay.

Speaking of gameplay, best combat and failing the stealth approach isn't usually failure as the grenade launcher can often be an equally valid approach.

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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Todinho »

If you want to get into the series though it's probably the worst to start with because it will be incredibly difficult to go back after playing V especially the likes of 2&4 that abuse the use of cutscenes,if you dont care about that though and just want to play a great game just go for it it's by far the best stealth game ever made IMO and at the same time doesnt force you to play like one if you dont want to,the story maybe a little hard to wrap your head around but if you dont care about it the game doesnt force you to care either.

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Todinho
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)

Post by Todinho »

So I finnished the last remaining story parts of MGSV today and it got me really thinking about some things especially the series relation with women and V's so i wanted to talk about it,I wont spoil anything about V just the number of female characters in the game but Im gonna be talking about all the other games female characters in detail and how I view the series in this regard,it's a bit long but I just wanted to get this out:
Spoiler: show
So MGSV has just 2 female characters in the entire game this was something that really stood out to me once I took a step back from everthing,having few girls in itself isnt a problem but I found both storylines very "schizophrenic",is the best way I can put it, this game more then any other Metal gear game is probably the worse when it comes to the women and not just because all of the sexual objectification of Quiet either, now I hear some people say that the series always had a problem depicting women and listening back to some of the Cane&Rinse shows you can see that as a comon thread of complaint on every show,the thing is I never thought that was actually true in my mind the series was always a great example of the oposite because of how many strong and more importantly interesting female characters it has,in a way that no other similar series has in terms of a mix of quality and quantity.

Now I can already hear people saying that Im just in delusion and that the series has been sexist from the start,I can even remember a tropes video where they showed Metal Gear 1 and Snake saving Madnar's daughter(ignoring that he saved a bunch of other people too but whatever),I can understand why people think that tough and it's all tied to the use of the girls as fanservice and the fact that Kojima seems like a 12 year old when it comes to sexuality sometimes,so everytime someone brings the female characters in the games they point out things like EVA's outifit in 3,the Easter eggs like Meryl sit ups in 1 and the fact that you can make Rose's boobs move in the codec in 4. Now what Im about to say might seem like a giant cop out but all of that stuff isnt important to me because of how superficial it is it's there for gags and fanservice add to that the amount of homoerotic parts in these games and I can hardly see anything sexist about it for me it ends up being just another quirk of the guy to thought of sneaking around in a cardboard box,Im not saying that if you are bothered by that stuff you're wrong and shouldnt be upset that's fine but Im saying that looking more then skin deep into these characters you see that they are actually very well realized and fit into the story very well,none of the females characters in any of the games are damsels in distress,they never get patronizing explanations from the men,they often act acording to their on motives and will and are never beneath the men in skill in many cases they are above.

So to prove my point let's list every female character in the games:
MGS- Sniper Wolf,Meryl,Naomi,Nastasha,Mei Ling
MgS2- Olga,Rose,Emma,Fortune
MGS3- The Boss,Para-Medic,EVA
MGS4- Naomi,Meryl,Big Momma,Mei Ling,Sunny,Rose
MGSPW- Amanda,Paz,cecile,strangelove

So let's see in 1 we have Sniper Wolf whose death scene is still in many people's mind one of the most emotional scenes in video game history she's a highly skilled and inteligent assassin with a great backstory,the worst thing you could say about her is that she wears a low cut shirt but that fits the type of characters she's based at and in no point this exploited in the game in any way,so no problems here.
Meryl is a character people are more quick to judge putting her as just another love interest for the protagonist but there's way more to her character then that,she's a rookie that's desilusoned with the military and goverment after joining,when she meets Snake she meet a legend that inspired her to become a soldier in the first place!So of course she's smitten with him,she also plays a big part in Snake's arc in the game but also has a arc of her own by overcoming her conflicts with the help of Snake and vice versa,she's also clearly skilled as she manages to sneak up on him twice.
Naomi is next and she's my favorite character in the game,so no wonder I think she's awesome not only she's a great geneticist her single minded goal of revenge is at the crux of the entire story I will never forget the line "You killed my benefactor and sent my brother home a cripple" and in hindsight you can see how it affects her as the events of the game unfold,it's also through her that the game delivers it's final message to the player and Snake.
Nastasha and Mei Ling are both great examples of supporting characters that are way more likeable and fleshed out then they should both are especialists in their fields and both have distinct personalities that complement the cast with Mei Ling being the naive young girl who wants everything to go right while Nastasha is way more matter of fact and is only trying to prevent nukes from falling in the hands of terrorists as this issue is very close to her personal life and past.

In MGS2 we are quickly introduced to Olga which you guessed it is my favorite character in the game,right at the start we can see how skilled she is and that she's not only a soldier but it's also pregnant and this touches one something that few games I've seen deal with which is mother-sons relationships,there are alot of dads in video games if you know what I mean and lately the latest fashion seems to be father daughter relationships(which Im sick and tired of btw) but Metal Gear is one of the few series that deal with both mother-daugther/son and father-son relations which is rare, Olga is a soldier to the point of considering her unit her family but she`s also a mother and because of that she`s manipulated and forced to play a part for the patriots and in doing that she essensially sells her unit out to protect her daughter that she didnt even meet,in the end she dies without ever getting to see her and causes the death of her comrades something she regrets dearly. So yeah nothing bad to say about her.
Rose is a little different she`s really annoying the entire game and seems to be there just to remind Raiden that he is worthless and that they have couple issues,in the end however it`s revealed that she`s actually part of the AI so I think her behavior makes a little more sense as it`s the AI just fucking with him.
Fortune is another very weird character I really couldnt care less about her "oh I cant die,im so sad!" speechs but she makes for a very good impression as a first boss for Raiden because despite her tiny life bar you cant lay a finger on her,other then that I have no idea what the twist that the power of luck was within all along meant but I think all of Dead Cell was poorly done so...
Emma on the other hand is far more straight foward it's unfortunally that she has some of the worst gameplay sections in the game but she in many ways the most important character to the plot as she both kickstarts the events in 2007 and comes up with the solution to disable the AI,her drama with Otacon comes abit suddenly but I think it works she's also one of the few fragile female characters in the games which I personally dont view as a negative but in many ways she still has more of a backbone then her brother,her death does serve to propel Otacon and Raiden stories but that also happen to the president and Peter stillman as Raiden cant save anyone.

I dont think I need to explain why the Boss is still the best female character in gaming after all these years right,she could easily been a man and still be a great character but the fact that she's a woman adds tons to her character and like I said early mother-son relationship are a rare thing in games.
Para-Medic is probably my favorite support character in the series her personality is just great and her conversations with Snake are priceless I dont think there's a single person who played Snake Eater and disliked her or the way she was portrayed.
And so you get to EVA the femme fatale of the game that spends most of the game with her top hanging off,an interesting thing about that is that during all cutscenes with her that you can press R1 Snake is looking at her boobs but in the last cutscene you can do that he's actually looking at her face! So you see character developement!It's a really dumb thing but it's also a very Kojima thing to do. But yeah everybody seems to have issue with her outfit but she is playing the part of the femme fatale in 2 ways here,not only that but she's also the oposite of one because by the end it was her playing him and he only lives because she made a promise to the Boss,I also really liked her personality and her conversations with Snake and how their relationship grew in the game and I still think the romance in here is one of the more natural I've seen in a game.

So we get to 4 where it's probably the most problematic one in this departament(Until V) Im not even gonna mention the BB unit because the way I see it they are the embodiment of fanservice so the fact that they are women is just to tie into that in my mind.

So Naomi they completely ruined her character by making her this woman that only talks about sin and is responsible for a bunch of weird nanomachine related nonsense it also doesnt help that her dialogue is terrible and half the time you can barely understand what she's trying to say(a problem in almost every character I'd say) at least she's still in control of her own life and has agency in the game it's her that calls Snake to pick her up and latter own defect to Liquid again for her own reasons that get explained at the end.
Big Momma has a similar problem because her personality is completely different from 3 and she speaks in riddles almost,I guess time will do that to you but the fact that she basically acts like a giant exposition dump and then dies is a big let down.
Mei Ling has a cameo in the game but it's cool to see her lead the ship into the final battle
Rose is there just to basically tie up her loose ends with Raiden she does little in the game but her motives and issues are well explained at least and the resolution to that story is pretty good
Sunny's arc is pretty straight foward not much to say.
Meryl in this game is great you can clearly see her evolution from 1 and how she's her own woman now and so on which only makes her marrying the joke character of the entire series more bizzarre...
It would be easy to say that the female characters were poorly utilized in 4 but you could say that about many of the male characters as well I think that game has many problems in this regard,Peace walker on the other hand greatly improves that.

Amanda is a great example,in that game she's a revolutionary that lost her icons both Che Guevara and her father are dead and she somehow has to continue to believe,lead her men and take care of her brother despite being plagued by doubts,so she finds in Snake a new icon to hold on to and throught the game she starts to turn into the leader the sandinistas need and deserve,by the end it's her that comes to Snake's rescue which closes her cycle.
Cecile is weird one because she's basically in the game because Kojima lost a bet as she's based of one of Konami PR people in France,she won and wanted to be on a metal gear game so there she is XD,so she doesnt do much other then being french but she has some fun interactions with other characters but not much there either way.
Strangelove is another character I really like her whole goal of trying to recreate the Boss through AI as well as her hatred for Snake for killing her is very well done,at first she seems very logical but we quickly see that she is probably the character that acts most out of emotion in the game,I also really like her personality and the fact that she continues the trend of Metal gear female scientists being better then the men she's way more capable then Huey for example,and also the fact that her arc and Snake's in this game being so linked is very well done.
Paz is a controversial character but I think she works very well in this game you spend the whole game thinking she's this boring character and it turns ou she pulls an Ocelot on you but not only that she actually has more layers to her when you find her diary and the inner conflict she faced,people really took issue with the date mission but I found that more funny and ridiculous then creppy especially in context and knowing there was a Miller date too,character wise I think she works perfectly but I can see why that might be undermined but her portrayal which even I will agree.

The reason I listed all of these is that even if you dont agree 100% with what Im saying you can see that each character has a purpose and many are great characters without a doubt after a first glance,this was the main reason I was so adamant in defending Kojima and wanting to wait for the game to come out to pass out judgement on Quiet's oufit and so own because once you look into these games you find these amazing qualities in writing,design and etc.Unfortunally in this particular aspect V was a major let down because I cant see the quality that was in the characters above in Phantom pain which is beyond disaponting,i cant say anymore without spoiling V but whatever Kojima goes to work on next outside Konami I hope to find more of the quality characters I listed above and less of that embarrassing shower scene in V(though It was pretty funny to have Ocelot in it though

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