All things Metal Gear (Solid)
- KSubzero1000
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Interesting post! I tend to agree. I think that the female characters in MGS are a clear case of Style vs. Substance. If you only look at their aesthetic design then yes, a lot of it is silly and juvenile. But if you dig a little deeper, then you find out that most of them are actually written as complex human beings with their own arcs and motivations. (With a few exceptions like the B&B.) EVA being a perfect example of that. I see her as this really interesting deconstruction of the typical trophy Bond girl.
(Quiet's design is cringe-worthy, though.)
Kojima may have glaring weaknesses as a writer, but I think his heart is in the right place. You don't see a character like The Boss very often. In any medium.
(Quiet's design is cringe-worthy, though.)
Kojima may have glaring weaknesses as a writer, but I think his heart is in the right place. You don't see a character like The Boss very often. In any medium.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Although I have not completed all of the story and am still working through post credit content, I do agree on most points and I find it all the more frustrating because this is a marvellous game in many other aspects. I just want to say a couple of points on the subject of Quiet, I think only a few things needed to be done to make her an overall better character a) just cover her up a little bit more, there is nothing wrong with being 'sexy' (ok, there can be a lot wrong with that if presented in certain ways, but I digress...) however, the outfit has gone a little too far (you can toss around the word 'photosynthesis' Kojima and team but The End wore clothes!), b) don't animate Quiet to stick her arse in your face in the chopper or do sexualised yoga as a reward for looking at her and c) stop having the camera focus on her arse, groin and breasts all of the time, ESPECIALLY during (spoilers):Todinho wrote:So I finnished the last remaining story parts of MGSV today and it got me really thinking about some things especially the series relation with women and V's so i wanted to talk about it,I wont spoil anything about V just the number of female characters in the game but Im gonna be talking about all the other games female characters in detail and how I view the series in this regard,it's a bit long but I just wanted to get this out:
- Spoiler: show
- Spoiler: show
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
No spoiler my thoughts on the game
Completed the game a couple of days ago and whilst I had a fun 60 odd hour experience I feel the game has been massively overhyped with the many 10/10 reviews in a lot of the mainstream gaming press.
The game was brilliant for the first 30 or so hours with excellent missions and story development (although to get to the story cut scenes did feel like they where making you grind to a certain extent to progress the story by having to do side ops and other less interesting missions ).
but as soon as you get to the second half of the game there is a massive drop in quality with the amount of grind needed to progress the main quest line intensified to the extent that you feel that the game is basically forcing you to do uninteresting things just to elongate the experience.
I feel that the rushed second half of the game may in some way be linked to kojima and konami's tensions and eventual parting of ways.
I also felt the story itself was not up to the usual high standards of the metal gear series with some of the voice acting actually being worse for the inclusion of Hollywood A listers ( Kiefer Sutherland) and videogame voice over talent (Troy Baker) not even coming close to the previous brilliance of David Hayter and Patric Zimmerman from previous entries in the series.
The story is ...... well the story is the usual Kojima mesh of sci fi and military conventions with a bit of the paranormal added for good measure, basically if you enjoy Kojima's other work you will enjoy the story although it is far from being one of his best works and frequently forces the player to listen to pointless tape recordings (The Hamburgers of Kazuhira Miller) along with the few hidden nuggets of real plot progression, almost all of the plot is hidden within these cassette tapes that many players new to the series may miss completely.
Overall there is a story hidden somewhere in the game it's just that to get to it you have to squeeze the game like an orange to get those last drips of story juice to even have a slight understanding of the narrative.
as a long time metal gear fan I feel this game is not a metal gear game and leaves out many of the series staples that fans such as myself expect from a Metal Gear game, epic boss battles, campy spy thriller story, and well rounded believable characters.
The game is more in my opinion Kojima's love letter to western game development designs (the Assassins Creed or Farcry series ) rather than the great final send off Metal Gear deserved.
If I was tasked with professionally reviewing this game I would have scored it as a 7/10 as the game has a great engine some great gameplay but is lacking in story, variety, and content.
Completed the game a couple of days ago and whilst I had a fun 60 odd hour experience I feel the game has been massively overhyped with the many 10/10 reviews in a lot of the mainstream gaming press.
The game was brilliant for the first 30 or so hours with excellent missions and story development (although to get to the story cut scenes did feel like they where making you grind to a certain extent to progress the story by having to do side ops and other less interesting missions ).
but as soon as you get to the second half of the game there is a massive drop in quality with the amount of grind needed to progress the main quest line intensified to the extent that you feel that the game is basically forcing you to do uninteresting things just to elongate the experience.
I feel that the rushed second half of the game may in some way be linked to kojima and konami's tensions and eventual parting of ways.
I also felt the story itself was not up to the usual high standards of the metal gear series with some of the voice acting actually being worse for the inclusion of Hollywood A listers ( Kiefer Sutherland) and videogame voice over talent (Troy Baker) not even coming close to the previous brilliance of David Hayter and Patric Zimmerman from previous entries in the series.
The story is ...... well the story is the usual Kojima mesh of sci fi and military conventions with a bit of the paranormal added for good measure, basically if you enjoy Kojima's other work you will enjoy the story although it is far from being one of his best works and frequently forces the player to listen to pointless tape recordings (The Hamburgers of Kazuhira Miller) along with the few hidden nuggets of real plot progression, almost all of the plot is hidden within these cassette tapes that many players new to the series may miss completely.
Overall there is a story hidden somewhere in the game it's just that to get to it you have to squeeze the game like an orange to get those last drips of story juice to even have a slight understanding of the narrative.
as a long time metal gear fan I feel this game is not a metal gear game and leaves out many of the series staples that fans such as myself expect from a Metal Gear game, epic boss battles, campy spy thriller story, and well rounded believable characters.
The game is more in my opinion Kojima's love letter to western game development designs (the Assassins Creed or Farcry series ) rather than the great final send off Metal Gear deserved.
If I was tasked with professionally reviewing this game I would have scored it as a 7/10 as the game has a great engine some great gameplay but is lacking in story, variety, and content.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Man I had forgotten about that that's terrible,at some points it even seems like that game is trying to make a point about sexualization but if it was it failed miserably because it looks just as blantant tasteless fanservice.arry_g wrote:
Although I have not completed all of the story and am still working through post credit content, I do agree on most points and I find it all the more frustrating because this is a marvellous game in many other aspects. I just want to say a couple of points on the subject of Quiet, I think only a few things needed to be done to make her an overall better character a) just cover her up a little bit more, there is nothing wrong with being 'sexy' (ok, there can be a lot wrong with that if presented in certain ways, but I digress...) however, the outfit has gone a little too far (you can toss around the word 'photosynthesis' Kojima and team but The End wore clothes!), b) don't animate Quiet to stick her arse in your face in the chopper or do sexualised yoga as a reward for looking at her and c) stop having the camera focus on her arse, groin and breasts all of the time, ESPECIALLY during (spoilers):
- Spoiler: show
So I've been reading alot of people's negative reactions to the game to try and understand why and most of the reasons were what I thought and while on one hand I can understand why some people were upset I cant help but feel they are missing the point tremendously,but what irks me the most is the huge uproar of fans hating this game for no good reason saying it's unfinnished or trying to convince themselfs that any of the other games had better gameplay. Zen brought some points of this so I just wanna address this:
I hear alot of people using this to say the latter half is terrible but many fans appear to not have played Peace Walker which did the exact same thing,in it's structure Phantom Pain is the same the story goes until the credits and then it starts being sparse,it's so that the gameplay can shine and you can relax and side ops and stuff until more plot unlocks, it's the same thing the difference this time is that all of your story missions arent playing hide n' seek until the true ending unlocks. You can argue that's bad on both cases but nobody made a fuss when it came to Peace Walker certainly not to this degree.zen_anarchy wrote: but as soon as you get to the second half of the game there is a massive drop in quality with the amount of grind needed to progress the main quest line intensified to the extent that you feel that the game is basically forcing you to do uninteresting things just to elongate the experience.
Another common complaint,first off the game never forces you to listen to any of the tapes it's all 100% optional all it does is mark tapes as important to the main plot IF you want a more indepth look,all the tapes do is give a more detailed explanation of the mechanics of the world,background information and more character development. This is similar to many games that do the same thing and previous Metal Gear games where the codec served a similar function,when Kojima decided to do away with the codec in 4 we got 2 hour cutscenes so instead of having that in Peace Walker he placed of the codec in tapes that you dont have to pause gameplay to listen and that arent forced upon you.At no point I felt I needed the tapes to understand what was happening but they do add alot to the story. On that note I will agree is not Kojima's strongest work,at least on face value,it's definetly a Metal Gear story with the more OTT and funny moments now reduced to gameplay only.zen_anarchy wrote: The story is ...... well the story is the usual Kojima mesh of sci fi and military conventions with a bit of the paranormal added for good measure, basically if you enjoy Kojima's other work you will enjoy the story although it is far from being one of his best works and frequently forces the player to listen to pointless tape recordings (The Hamburgers of Kazuhira Miller) along with the few hidden nuggets of real plot progression, almost all of the plot is hidden within these cassette tapes that many players new to the series may miss completely.
Overall there is a story hidden somewhere in the game it's just that to get to it you have to squeeze the game like an orange to get those last drips of story juice to even have a slight understanding of the narrative.
Speaking of which c'mon the hamburger tapes are some of the best tapes in the game having Kaz out of revenge mode for a second is great and it reminds me of some of Peace Walker tapes where they talked about Maté and other dumb stuff like that,the same as in 3 with Sigint and Para-Medic.
OK so this really really annoys the shit out me this idea of "this is not a Metal gear game because X" guess what people said that 3 wasnt a Metal Gear game when i came out because it took place in the jungle but it turns out it's the best in the series by most standarts,I really hate this mindset just because something is different,especially in metal gear when all of the games are different from one another this game is the same it has the same DNA as the others especially when you get to the ending. The game has boss fights especially the final one which cant be described as anything but epic,are the bosses in this game a step down in comparison to the other games?Yes but this has been a trend in all MGS games they peaked in MGS1 and since have declined to the point they were all copies in 4 and mechs in PW. The story is not as campy this time but of course it couldnt be given the subject matter and depctions in the game and I dont know about you but Huey,Miller and Code Talker where very well rounded to me.zen_anarchy wrote: as a long time metal gear fan I feel this game is not a metal gear game and leaves out many of the series staples that fans such as myself expect from a Metal Gear game, epic boss battles, campy spy thriller story, and well rounded believable characters.
The game is more in my opinion Kojima's love letter to western game development designs (the Assassins Creed or Farcry series ) rather than the great final send off Metal Gear deserved.
Hope you dont take this as me just bashing your comment Zen it's just that you broughta few things that I have been reading and that I strongly disagree with and needed to get it out sorry,to me more then anything this game seems to me like Kojima's love letter to us the fans of the series by letting us be front and center and from a creator so big many complain that he is overhyped or that he's self-agrandizing and in love with himslef this was really touching at least to me, Im just sad to see so much anger from the very fans that should be happy and not even directed at Konami but Kojima and his team,it's like seeing a parent working hard under though situations just to put food on the table only to have his kid spit at it,is the game a perfect 10/10 no even I will agree to that it has problems I wont deny but so did the other games did anyone forget the backtracking on MGS1? or the underwater escort mission in MGS2? or the Pain in 3? They game were always flawed sometimes pretty flawed but the reasons they are held in such high regard by so many is because of their qualities and I think that`s more then present in V .
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
I agree with you Zen on most of your points, well apart from the Kiefer Sutherland bit =P
I really enjoyed my time with Phantom pain, it looks amazing and there is so so much you can do. I personally found the mission select and mother base thing a bit irratating and grindy, it was reminding me of World of Warcraft and farmville and has put me off playing chapter 2. I've played all the console Metal Gear games and enjoyed them although I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan. Metal Gear Solid (PS1) is the only one which i followed the plot, the others whilst enjoyable were really difficult to follow, I enjoyed their stories but I didn't really care for them. The lack of obvious plot from Phantom Pain is a bit of an odd choice and I don't really understand what went on and I'm not sure that I want to.
There are aspects to the game that I don't think were needed such as online infilitration, combat dispatches and the motherbase leveling thing. Also I'm not sure if I've hit that age but the lack of clothes for Quiet was really bad, I felt a bit embarrased whilst using her on missions and even more embarassed when my fiancee was watching my play. Maybe it's a japanese thing, maybe it's a kojima thing but it's not cool. Luckily D Dog was an options
I really enjoyed my time with Phantom pain, it looks amazing and there is so so much you can do. I personally found the mission select and mother base thing a bit irratating and grindy, it was reminding me of World of Warcraft and farmville and has put me off playing chapter 2. I've played all the console Metal Gear games and enjoyed them although I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan. Metal Gear Solid (PS1) is the only one which i followed the plot, the others whilst enjoyable were really difficult to follow, I enjoyed their stories but I didn't really care for them. The lack of obvious plot from Phantom Pain is a bit of an odd choice and I don't really understand what went on and I'm not sure that I want to.
There are aspects to the game that I don't think were needed such as online infilitration, combat dispatches and the motherbase leveling thing. Also I'm not sure if I've hit that age but the lack of clothes for Quiet was really bad, I felt a bit embarrased whilst using her on missions and even more embarassed when my fiancee was watching my play. Maybe it's a japanese thing, maybe it's a kojima thing but it's not cool. Luckily D Dog was an options
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Hey its cool manTodinho wrote:
Hope you dont take this as me just bashing your comment Zen it's just that you broughta few things that I have been reading and that I strongly disagree with and needed to get it out sorry,to me more then anything this game seems to me like Kojima's love letter to us the fans of the series by letting us be front and center and from a creator so big many complain that he is overhyped or that he's self-agrandizing and in love with himslef this was really touching at least to me, Im just sad to see so much anger from the very fans that should be happy and not even directed at Konami but Kojima and his team,it's like seeing a parent working hard under though situations just to put food on the table only to have his kid spit at it,is the game a perfect 10/10 no even I will agree to that it has problems I wont deny but so did the other games did anyone forget the backtracking on MGS1? or the underwater escort mission in MGS2? or the Pain in 3? They game were always flawed sometimes pretty flawed but the reasons they are held in such high regard by so many is because of their qualities and I think that`s more then present in V .
we all have our own opinions and I respect yours and as with opinions its all subjective I think we agree more than disagree on many points regarding the game.
My only real differences being that after the first chapter I felt the game took a turn for the worse which left me with a negative feeling towards the game, if I would have stopped playing after the first chapter I would be singing its praises like most other people as a bold new direction for the metal gear series although I would still be bemoaning the lack of distinctive boss characters, even Fatman was a more interesting boss battle than anything the phantom pain delivered( I don't know maybe I just have a thing for gimmicky boss encounters).
But after completing it I came away feeling really apathetic towards the game which has never really happened to me before with a metal gear game, I even enjoyed both peace walker's post game content and metal gear 4's ridiculous cut scene bonanza ending.
I don't dislike the game it's just not one of the best games I've ever played it felt like there was too much of a box ticking exercise with in regards to how the game functioned with similar features taken from modern western third person action games.
Batman Arkham Knight had a similar way of extending play time with its annoying Riddler missions, but the phantom pain takes the annoyance of the Riddler missions and adds to it a dash of destiny's grind and progression loop mechanics.
oh and I agree I really did enjoy "The Hamburgers of Kazuhira Miller" they where about the funniest moments in the game I just highlighted it in my original post as an example of a lot for the tapes which seem to be added just because ...well you know, Kojima (wackiness) or to fill out blanks in the story.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Fair enough it's funny though for me if the game had actually ended in chapter 1 I would be beyond disapointed XD
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Finished Peace Walker last night - absolutely loved it. It was brilliant.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Just to check, finished as if in up to the credits or finished as if in the post credits content done also because I'd hate to think that anyone might miss the true climax to Peace Walker.Alex79uk wrote:Finished Peace Walker last night - absolutely loved it. It was brilliant.
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
So, I actually finished MGSV yesterday - that is to say got to the third and final credit roll, (and having those mini-credits at the end of a mission and multiple credit rolls throughout the game was just plain silly) having spent 165 hours playing it over the last few weeks. And whilst I've enjoyed the actual gameplay immensely, the overall game is heavily flawed. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Chapter 2 is an uneven and unfinished mess in regards to both its structure and the narrative.
I'll put the rest of this under tags to avoid anything spoilery.
As for Quiet,
Getting back to MGSV though...
I'll put the rest of this under tags to avoid anything spoilery.
- Spoiler: show
As for Quiet,
I agree to a point, that on paper, the series' females could come across as quite intriguing but by making them look the way they do in the games with their sexualised outfits and leering camera angles etc. it undermines a lot of the agency they should have as characters. I always find it interesting that folks often refer to The Boss as an example that Kojima can create an impressive female character but the truth is that she came about more by accident since Kojima's original vision of her was for her was to always have one breast exposed, which bounced when she fired a gun. A frankly farcical idea, which would have rendered her with the same level of ridiculous objectification as every other female character in the series. This was most likely dropped at the time because it would have run into serious problems with game certification in Japan, the States and also in Europe, but as it turns out helped create what is probably one of the more memorable characters in the entire series.KSubzero1000 wrote:I think that the female characters in MGS are a clear case of Style vs. Substance. If you only look at their aesthetic design then yes, a lot of it is silly and juvenile. But if you dig a little deeper, then you find out that most of them are actually written as complex human beings with their own arcs and motivations. (With a few exceptions like the B&B.) EVA being a perfect example of that. I see her as this really interesting deconstruction of the typical trophy Bond girl.
(Quiet's design is cringe-worthy, though.)
Kojima may have glaring weaknesses as a writer, but I think his heart is in the right place. You don't see a character like The Boss very often. In any medium.
Getting back to MGSV though...
- Spoiler: show
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
So I've spent a lot of this year making the transition from relative Metal Gear Solid virgin to championing the series to anyone who'll listen. So far my journey has taken me through the first three main games, and now Peace Walker.
Let me start by saying, holy shit, I fucking loved this game.
At first, it seemed there were a few concessions that watered down the game play a little. You couldn't move bodies, the mission structure was surprising, and I wasn't sure what I'd think of what I had heard could be an incredibly grind-filled game. In the end, none of that mattered. I completely bought in to every aspect of the game. I enjoyed the missions and the story very much - it was just as insane as ever. Some people might argue the MGS games are far too self-aware, but that's what I love them for. When they started saying 'Kojima is God. Kojima is God' over the codec, well I did to a little laugh out loud.
The way the missions were split in to smaller, shorter sorties worked fantastically well on handheld. And whilst I wouldn't want every MGS game to be played this way I enjoyed it as a change very much. I enjoyed the extra-ops missions too, perfect for honing shooting skills or sneaking and CQC - or just even snagging more bodies in to your ever expanding squad.
The cut scenes were brilliant, the voice acting just as over the top and hammy as we've come to expect, but this is MGS through and through. A lot of people spoke of the boss battles being incredibly difficult in single player. Well co-opping wasn't an option for me so I prepared myself for the grind, which never game. Sure some bosses took two or three goes, but they never felt impossible. I played a few of the extra-ops more than once, but never so much it felt like a chore. I enjoyed them. I even enjoyed sending off the groups for the outer-ops and watching them play out like a game of Advance Wars or something.
I'm no games reviewer, but I know what I love and could ramble on about this for hours - but that probably wouldn't interest anyone really so I'll leave it with this - it's an amazing game. If you have always dismissed it as not important or not a proper MGS game you're very much mistaken. It's genuinely brilliant, in pretty much every way.
Loved it.
Let me start by saying, holy shit, I fucking loved this game.
At first, it seemed there were a few concessions that watered down the game play a little. You couldn't move bodies, the mission structure was surprising, and I wasn't sure what I'd think of what I had heard could be an incredibly grind-filled game. In the end, none of that mattered. I completely bought in to every aspect of the game. I enjoyed the missions and the story very much - it was just as insane as ever. Some people might argue the MGS games are far too self-aware, but that's what I love them for. When they started saying 'Kojima is God. Kojima is God' over the codec, well I did to a little laugh out loud.
The way the missions were split in to smaller, shorter sorties worked fantastically well on handheld. And whilst I wouldn't want every MGS game to be played this way I enjoyed it as a change very much. I enjoyed the extra-ops missions too, perfect for honing shooting skills or sneaking and CQC - or just even snagging more bodies in to your ever expanding squad.
The cut scenes were brilliant, the voice acting just as over the top and hammy as we've come to expect, but this is MGS through and through. A lot of people spoke of the boss battles being incredibly difficult in single player. Well co-opping wasn't an option for me so I prepared myself for the grind, which never game. Sure some bosses took two or three goes, but they never felt impossible. I played a few of the extra-ops more than once, but never so much it felt like a chore. I enjoyed them. I even enjoyed sending off the groups for the outer-ops and watching them play out like a game of Advance Wars or something.
I'm no games reviewer, but I know what I love and could ramble on about this for hours - but that probably wouldn't interest anyone really so I'll leave it with this - it's an amazing game. If you have always dismissed it as not important or not a proper MGS game you're very much mistaken. It's genuinely brilliant, in pretty much every way.
Loved it.
Haha, no, I battled that Zeke up good and proper.arry_g wrote:Just to check, finished as if in up to the credits or finished as if in the post credits content done also because I'd hate to think that anyone might miss the true climax to Peace Walker.Alex79uk wrote:Finished Peace Walker last night - absolutely loved it. It was brilliant.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
I really dont understand what great unfinnished mess people see chapter 2 as because other then the very obvious plot thread that's forgotten I cant really think of anything that got left unresolved much less having so much stuff for an entire third chapter,maybe a better lead up to the final mission maybe, so I dont see it is "unfinnished" the game has cut content like every game. Also the game follows Peace Walker's structure to a tee in that the main plot ends and then you get extra story stuff while you keep playing the game,for me it was fine when peace Walker did it not because I was cutting it slack for being a PSP game but because I really liked playing it just like MGSV,I dont know maybe it's just me but this didnt bother me at all because I just wanted to play more of the game anyway.JaySevenZero wrote:So, I actually finished MGSV yesterday - that is to say got to the third and final credit roll, (and having those mini-credits at the end of a mission and multiple credit rolls throughout the game was just plain silly) having spent 165 hours playing it over the last few weeks. And whilst I've enjoyed the actual gameplay immensely, the overall game is heavily flawed. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Chapter 2 is an uneven and unfinished mess in regards to both its structure and the narrative.
I'll put the rest of this under tags to avoid anything spoilery.
[/spoiler]
- Spoiler: show
I also dont understand why people only talk about the Boss when it comes to great female characters in this series like I said before every game has then and they are not sexualized Naomi in MGS1,Olga in 2,strangelove in PW. The Boss isnt the exception or the fluke the proves the rule she's a part of a list. I also never understood why a character being sexualized somehow robs them of agency or something I dont think anyone would argue that say Vamp is robbed of agency because he dresses like an exotic dancer or Bayonetta,how they act is far more important in my mind and that's why I have problems with Quiet. I dont know maybe Im too used to anime and stuff and this type of thing doesnt bother me anymore.JaySevenZero wrote: I agree to a point, that on paper, the series' females could come across as quite intriguing but by making them look the way they do in the games with their sexualised outfits and leering camera angles etc. it undermines a lot of the agency they should have as characters. I always find it interesting that folks often refer to The Boss as an example that Kojima can create an impressive female character but the truth is that she came about more by accident since Kojima's original vision of her was for her was to always have one breast exposed, which bounced when she fired a gun. A frankly farcical idea, which would have rendered her with the same level of ridiculous objectification as every other female character in the series. This was most likely dropped at the time because it would have run into serious problems with game certification in Japan, the States and also in Europe, but as it turns out helped create what is probably one of the more memorable characters in the entire series.
Really because I thought that was actually one of the strongest parts of the gameJaySevenZero wrote: Getting back to MGSV though...
- Spoiler: show
- Spoiler: show
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
That is true, but not every game is being directed by someone known for his perfectionism, sometimes to an absurd degree. Not every game is part of a series of incredibly well-rounded entries, not every game was being described as the ultimate evolution of said series, and not every game was being granted a five (!) years development period only to be rushed out soon after the kind of massive internal conflict that apparently took place at Konami. Anything beyond that is mostly speculation, but I think these are the reasons why the removal of some of the planned content seems to stick out like such a sore thumb. Here's a short list of some of the most important content I could find after a quick search. I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case.Todinho wrote:I dont see it is "unfinnished" the game has cut content like every game.
- Spoiler: show
Edit: Oh and another thing: Given their usual polish, it seems almost impossible for me to imagine any of the previous games to have been shipped out with potential fail states that would have needed to be patched out, like the whole thing with the Quiet glitch. That's something that I would expect from UbiSoft or Bethesda, but not KojiPro.
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Regarding The Boss: Yes, it's probably for the best that her character design turned out the way it did!
The reason why I brought her up is because she dominates the narrative of the game she appears in in a way that Naomi or Olga don't do. She is the main force to be reckoned with, instead of being relegated to a supporting role. She bests Snake in combat, she imparts her wisdom on both the player and the protagonist, and she is the source of the emotional punch at the end. That is not to say that she is the only well-realised female character in the series, of course.
Also, the problem with certain character design is less sexualization and more objectification. Vamp isn't objectified. Bayonetta certainly is, but it's a refuge in audacity-type thing. Her design is so over-the-top and the game is so tongue-in-cheek about it that it becomes a lot less problematic, in my opinion.
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Regarding the subplot in MGSV you gentlemen were discussing:
- Spoiler: show
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
It's come up before, but the reason Bayonetta works is because she herself is far more self aware as a character. Yes, she's objectified. But she knows she is, and she's using that. It's almost a subversion of the tropes.
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
No, you're right, it was remiss of me to use the term 'sexualisation'.KSubzero1000 wrote: Also, the problem with certain character design is less sexualization and more objectification. Vamp isn't objectified. Bayonetta certainly is, but it's a refuge in audacity-type thing. Her design is so over-the-top and the game is so tongue-in-cheek about it that it becomes a lot less problematic, in my opinion.]
Regarding...
- Spoiler: show
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
While I haven't played Destiny, this is pretty much the way I feel about MGSV as a whole. I did put upwards of 180 hours into it, so it definitely does a lot of things right. The core mechanics are fantastic. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it has the best gameplay mechanics of any open world game I know of, hands down. Those mechanics aren't as well put to use as they could have been, however, given the repetitive mission objectives and disappointing boss fights and general encounter design. But based on that alone, I would definitely recommend this game to anyone who is even remotely interested in either the stealth genre or who wants to experience a different, more mechanically-oriented take on the open world formula.JaySevenZero wrote: In many ways, this game feels a lot like Destiny to me, a big expensive, eagerly anticipated game that somehow fell afoul of publisher interference. Whilst it's amazing on so many levels and actually fun to play, it feels like it could (perhaps should) have been so much more.
Another strength of the game I don't see mentioned very often is the cutscene direction and general cinematography. Maybe it's because I'm a film buff and pay attention to that sort of things, but I loved the use of carefully planned long takes and sound design. I can tell that a lot of work went into making them. I also don't really understand the criticism aimed at the quality of the voice acting. I thought it was perfectly fine most of the time, with a lot less cringe-worthy moments than in past MGS games.
And yet, despite all the enjoyment I had experimenting with those great mechanics, this game left me with an almost crushing feeling of disappointment. Which may sound weird at first. But that's because the stuff I wanted from the game simply wasn't there. The plot. The lore. The character arcs. The themes. The great use of music, even. The stuff that made me such a fan of the series in the first place. The stuff the trailers and interviews promised. The stuff I feel like I've been waiting for ever since MGS3. Why? We may never know. Perhaps we'll learn more about what went on behind the scenes as time goes on. What I certainly don't expect is for Kojima to come out and claim that the final product matches his initial vision. Too many rough edges, too much left unresolved. The more time goes by and the more I think about the story, the less I like it. And that's never a good sign.
I also realize that the game sort of seems like an anti-MGS4 in many regards. I, like many other fans, am also somewhat disappointed in MGS4 and the unrefined way it tries to explain everything in the most verbose way possible. I don't think of MGS4 as a classic, or at least not as being on the same level as its predecessors. But MGS4 also has some of the best character moments in the entire series which make me feel all giddy inside, even on repeated playthroughs. MGS4 has some fantastic boss fights. MGS4 makes a great use of its soundtrack. MGS4 still has a lot of the same quirky energy and strong sense of identity that define the first three games.
But MGSV? After all is said and done, all that remains is just a vague feeling of emptiness. Yes, it definitely should have been so much more. And that is not the note I wanted this series to end on.
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
What bothers me the most about the whole "unfinnished" argument is that even though it was obvious the game was planned to have more content,what we got doesnt feel incomplete other then maybe that one plot thread that was obviously supposed to be in the game and got cut by Konami,maybe Im alone in this but I didnt came off sad or disapointed because I felt the game had acomplished what it set out to do, there's this really good video of Superbunnyhop talking about the game in detail:
And While I agree with most of his analysis of the game I dont agree with how it made me feel,it may not have been what we "wanted" but from where Im standing it's the perfect goodbye to a 28 years old series and wrap up of everything,many dont feel that way and I can kinda of understand why but here's the thing:
(spoilers for V)
And While I agree with most of his analysis of the game I dont agree with how it made me feel,it may not have been what we "wanted" but from where Im standing it's the perfect goodbye to a 28 years old series and wrap up of everything,many dont feel that way and I can kinda of understand why but here's the thing:
(spoilers for V)
- Spoiler: show
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Hmmm... haven't watched the video (because I've not finished the game) but have read the title atop of it and my interest is piqued considering points I made earlier.
- JaySevenZero
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Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
Well, after spending 170 hours playing it, I've wiped my save and started again. I've done this mainly because of one thing in particular...
- Spoiler: show
Re: All things Metal Gear (Solid)
So I just saw this on the Metal Gear Reddit from user: "TiedHandsInThailand" and thought it was brillant I think it nails some very important things about this game,it's particulary about the common point me,Ksubzero and Jay were talking about in V also Arry I recommend reading this once you're done with the game:
- Spoiler: show