Devil May Cry V / Special Edition

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future
Post Reply
User avatar
JaySevenZero
Admin
Posts: 2643
Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:28 pm
Location: Liverpool, Europe, Earth
Contact:

Devil May Cry V / Special Edition

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here's where you can contribute your thoughts and opinions of Devil May Cry V for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.

A friendly reminder to all that where feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but self-editing (brevity) is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mainly reading. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
User avatar
DaMonth
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: April 14th, 2019, 9:51 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by DaMonth »

I had no idea how to Devil May Cry before I played this game. Having lock-on sorts of moves and not lock-on moves felt so strange and alien until I got to grips with it. And then suddenly it was some of my favorite wild nonsense to play. There's few greater feelings than figuring out that Nero's airtaunt is essentially a triple jump. Cowboy hat is great. Playing with action figures and dressing in dumb outfits to reenact cutscenes is even better.
User avatar
Simply Wunderful
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: May 15th, 2020, 10:49 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Simply Wunderful »

I'll try and be brief about why Devil May Cry might be one of the most well crafted games of modern times, if not all time, but forgive me if I ramble.

We haven't seen a "proper" Devil May Cry since 2008. DmC Devil May Cry from Ninja Theory is by no means a bad game, in fact it's a pretty decent game, but the series stands for more than whatever that game was pushing, which felt like it was more its story than its gameplay. Here we have a game that is almost purely gameplay focused, but finds a perfect balance to delivery just enough story beats to make it coherent. If you've never played a Devil May Cry game, this might actually be a weirdly good place to start. It's the peak of everything Devil May Cry gameplay is, with new stuff thrown in which might not always stick the landing.

You've gotten used to how Dante plays over 4 (5) games, and Nero has always been easy to grasp, but the biggest addition to combat is everyone's favourite goth boi, V. V feels like everything that DMC isn't, which isn't always a bad thing. With V, you have to put yourself before your enemies, whereas with other characters it's mich less of a worry. Vulnerable with a capital V, our new kid on the block takes a backseat while he let's his minions do his dirty work. There is something about the "overly dramatic DMC type" quirks like reading poems while enemies meet their demise which makes me smirk way too hard, but his gameplay just feels way too simply. It makes sense for the story, but it just isn't as fun to play as Nero or Dante. I understand everything it stands for, but it just slows down the fun. I never found myself choosing V when I had the option to pick Nero or Dante, and I think that speaks for his narrative plot line as well. Without saying much, if you can guess where V's story is heading from his first couple of scenes, you're not alone. We all be done knew.

That being said, story wise, it's Devil May Cry. What can you say? It hits its over the top notes with ease, but with this one it feels like there has been more attention to wrap up plotlines than ever before. It feels like a love letter to fans for their loyalty over the years, and honestly, it's probably the best written in the series, like it actually mentions events in past games, I just think that's cool and now what I would expect form Devil May Cry of all games. Virgil and Dante's sibling rivalry has always been such a big part of the franchise, and seeing it come to a head in this game is wonderful MAINLY because it isn't Dante that delivers that final blow. In a twist, Nero is the one that brings the pain to the final boss fight, and it's weirdly fitting. Nero has been living in the shadows of the Sons of Sparda since his announcement as the main character of DMC4, and his reception as a character has been cemented in this factor. Even in this game, he is shown to be brash and too quick to pull the (devil) trigger, whereas as someone like Dante has evolved in the series to become a show voting teacher, rather than the show voting weird cousin at the barbeque. Without giving too much away, Nero, now aware of his origins, embraces everything he is in a very literal middle finger to what I feel the game is ultimately about; legacy. It doesn't matter where you're from, it's where you're at, and finally achieving Nero's full potential feels so gratifying. I screamed at the TV when I started that final fight. I was with him. People told him and myself that I was something else, and they were dead wrong.

Devil May Cry 5 may stumbble very slightly, but to me, it's an almost perfect game. It plays like a dream, each character is very easy to grasp (even if V goes against the grain in a good way), and it closes a story I never thought its creators cared about too much. For me, this game hits the jackpot, I can't believe I live in a world where Devil May Cry V exists. But I do, and it's one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had.

(Sorry for any spelling mistakes, I was passion drunk when I wrote this)
User avatar
Angry_Kurt
Member
Posts: 395
Joined: May 1st, 2020, 2:53 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Angry_Kurt »

A good analysis SimplyWonderful. I agree that V's combat was a bit simple and nowhere near as fun as the other two. To me his combat felt a bit too button mashy.

So I have only played 2 Devil may Cry games. The Ninja Theory one (which was my first) and DmC V. Personally I'm not particularly good as these types of games so I'm not able to chain up the combos and perform the more impressive moves but I enjoy the spectacle of the combat, however I don't like to feel as if I'm just simply mashing buttons with no skill whatsoever. Due to this, out of the two I preferred the Nina Theory game as to me it felt more accessible from a combat point of view and felt it was easier to pull off some impressive moves and throughout I felt like a badass whilst playing it.

To begin with on 5 I was getting those same feelings but as the game progressed and the enemies became harder and more varied I often resorted to having to button mash more than I would like, that's more of a fault of mine than the game, but I didn't have this same issue with the Ninja Theory game.

Another thing I preferred about the reboot was the variety in the environments in it, which I felt was a lot more colourful and varied in comparison to the pretty grey 5 which didn't really expand beyond city environments until the last section of the game.

Overall I did enjoy 5 too, but preferred the reboot. It does make me think which of the previous games would be the best to go to next given all of the above.
User avatar
Caliburn M
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:00 pm
Location: Kintyre, Scotland

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Caliburn M »

Button mashing heaven ?
Glorious, mad mayhem ?
Weirdly wonderful world ?
Devils will cry ?

Will I stop ? erm yes. To put simply this game is just pure fun, play it :)
User avatar
Jon Cheetham
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: October 29th, 2019, 12:49 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Jon Cheetham »

I love how this combat system is so incredibly deep and refined that you can learn it the way people seem to learn fighting games, creating impressively choreographed combos like SunhiLegend. Or you can pick up a few moves that work for you and button mash through most encounters. However far you're prepared to go with memorising what the characters can do, it always makes what you're doing feel amazingly cool. There is also a mighty fine selection of boss battles which are a lot of fun.

V was the surprise breakout of the game for me - I didn't know how a summoner would work with a Devil May Cry game's frenetic battles, but he is actually a very engaging twist on the formula. Plus he will read you GCSE poetry at the press of a button! Here's hoping he was Hideaki Itsuno's trial run for a summoner class in Dragon's Dogma 2.

The only wrinkle for multiple playthroughs is how repetitive the environments become in the game's second half. While the early levels in the city and metro as well as one or two stately buildings are gorgeous, the repetitive corridors of the late game quickly get boring, despite the RE Engine's suitability for rendering all things mouldering and squishy.
User avatar
Angry_Kurt
Member
Posts: 395
Joined: May 1st, 2020, 2:53 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Angry_Kurt »

Jon Cheetham wrote: August 14th, 2020, 6:48 am The only wrinkle for multiple playthroughs is how repetitive the environments become in the game's second half. While the early levels in the city and metro as well as one or two stately buildings are gorgeous, the repetitive corridors of the late game quickly get boring, despite the RE Engine's suitability for rendering all things mouldering and squishy.
This was something I really noticed too, it was quite a grey game throughout I thought, not just in the late game. It's part of the reason why I preferred the Ninja Theory game due to it having a lot more varied and colourful levels.
User avatar
Jon Cheetham
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: October 29th, 2019, 12:49 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Jon Cheetham »

Angry_Kurt wrote: August 14th, 2020, 9:34 amThis was something I really noticed too, it was quite a grey game throughout I thought, not just in the late game. It's part of the reason why I preferred the Ninja Theory game due to it having a lot more varied and colourful levels.
I haven't beaten that game yet but from what I've seen I totally agree, although I prefer 5 overall for how it plays. But yeah the Ninja Theory one has got a healthy amount of bizarreness in its art style.
User avatar
Scrustle
Member
Posts: 2426
Joined: November 18th, 2012, 6:02 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Scrustle »

When this game first got announced I admit I was pretty disappointed with the first impression. I had been waiting for a decade for a direct follow-up to DMC4, with a lot of that period looking like it might never happen. And then this game is revealed with the huge change in art style that at first I found really off-putting. But as time went on and more information came out, I started warming up to it. And then when I finally got my hands on it myself, I was relieved to find that it was practically everything I could have hoped for, and was a glorious experience that quickly became a new all-time favourite.

Obviously the star of the show here is the fantastic combat system. Easily one of the best in any game to date. Not only is it brilliantly stylish and kinaesthetically gratifying, it has a ton of depth that makes it endlessly satisfying, making repeat playthroughs really rewarding. Nero is easy to get to grips with and has great mobility, yet has a lot to dig in to as well. Especially with the new Devil Breaker system that improves his move set over DMC4 and allows for a more dynamic play style. Although I can see why some people don’t like how they can break off, I never found it much of a problem in practice. Dante is complex and intricate in a way that is almost overwhelming, pushing the capabilities of a traditional controller to the limit with his biggest arsenal to date, yet still managing to be remarkably comprehensible. While he can be somewhat hard to get your head around initially, his absurd level of options provide a joyfully excessive toybox of tools to play around with. With both characters, you can spend upwards of dozens, or even hundreds of hours learning the ins and outs of how their abilities work and what you can do with them, allowing you to pull off some incredible things if you put in the time. It results in this great system where you have a lot of creativity, to the point where if you watch what expert players can do, it looks like they’re not even playing the same game.

Although that does leave out V’s combat mechanics, which unfortunately I’ve never really enjoyed all that much. While I appreciate the attempt at innovation, trying to come at this style of game from a completely different angle, I’m not too fond of the result. In comparison to the other characters, V feels kind of passive and un-involving. It too often feels like you don’t have enough control over your familiars, and that there isn’t much incentive to dig in to his abilities. Even after five playthroughs I never felt I could rely on the familiars to do what I intended. And when you look at high level players, it doesn’t have that same quality of looking like they are doing something that is on another level. Thankfully you aren’t forced to play as him for many missions. Astral Chain does a far better job at a similar kind of gameplay concept.

But aside from that, the combat is sheer excellence. Incredibly fun and cleverly designed. It’s a high water mark for the genre that evolves and refines what came before to new levels.

The bosses deserve a shout too. Most of them are really exciting, and exemplary for the sort of boss design in this kind of game. They are not just set pieces, but can be a real challenge, testing you on your knowledge of the mechanics and asking you to make your own openings through your own skill, providing a thrilling back-and-forth that feels natural and gets the adrenaline pumping. It also allows for that room to grow your skills too, as you learn better ways to exploit the fight, meaning these encounters can be just as unique as any intricate combo one could build juggling the lower level enemies.

I have no problem with the extremely linear, no-frills level structure either. While I do somewhat miss the more non-linear overlapping design of previous games, I think the way this game is laid out helps focus the pacing and the in-the-moment experience on to what the game does best. It means the game can focus purely on the combat, controlling how frequently you engage in it so as to make sure you don’t drop out of that flow state, but don’t get too exhausted either. So your pace doesn’t get broken by getting lost or anything, and it keeps a feeling of forward momentum. The series was always gradually going in this direction anyway. Although I think I would have appreciated it more if it did something like DMC4, with a series of smaller non-linear areas strung together, this is totally fine too. And many other games do the same thing, like Bayonetta which is an extremely similar game.

Aesthetically, I’m still somewhat ambivalent on the game however. I do still miss the atmospheric Gothic anime style from the older games, but this new photorealistic style has its benefits too, and it thankfully hasn’t resulted in the game trying to tone down the over-the-top animations and effects of combat. It’s still oozing style and personality. The new lighting and particle effects mean it’s just as visually exciting as ever. It does however mean that a lot of the early environments of the game are somewhat dull, focusing on the rubble-strewn cityscape. Later areas are more interesting though, as you enter the demonic zones that have a mix of colourful beauty and grotesque fleshiness. The HUD has a few neat touches as well, with how it looks like broken glass, as if the game is breaking through your TV screen, and even refracting the image in the broken shards. The character models are amazing too. While at first I thought they looked somewhat awkward in screenshots, in motion they look far better, with how the subtle animation details really bring out the emotions of the characters in a way that works very well with their larger than life personas.

I enjoy the story, and it does a good job of playing to its strengths, although it’s definitely far from some narrative masterpiece. But it knows what it’s doing, and knows how to get the best out of that, with tongue firmly in cheek. It works best when it’s providing a space for its characters to express themselves and ham it up, or clash against each other in the process. The moments of fun and melodrama are really well executed, especially with how well they are able to emote in surprisingly subtle ways. Although there are some deeper themes there to dig in to as well, that serve to back up these character moments. Nero trying to prove his worth and his self-actualisation at the finale, that ties in to mechanics as well as plot; Dante finding the drive to fight for something again, and coming to terms with is past; and Vergil meeting his son and finally beginning to get in touch with his more human side through V. It does a lot to tie up loose ends from DMC3 and 4 in a satisfying way too, and feels like a good conclusion to a number of larger arcs. Although it does rely on you already behind invested in those games to have the full impact. It’s somewhat of a shame that Lady and Trish don’t really get much to do in this game, and are sort of snubbed. Nico and V are both great new additions to the cast however, and fit in well. Despite not being too fond of how he played, I’m a little sad that V might not come back now, although judging by the recently revealed Special Edition trailer, there might still be hope of his return after all.

All things considered, DMC5 is a truly brilliant experience that embraces its nature unapologetically. It feels like a celebration of its own mechanics and legacy, inviting you on for the ride. It sets a new bar in quality for action games by being a culmination of many years honing the genre. It fulfils its potential impressively, and sets the stage for a very bright future for the series.
User avatar
Nupraptor
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: April 10th, 2018, 8:42 pm

Re: 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by Nupraptor »

Years ago, we was a happy hobbits, living in fieldses and nice hobbit holes. The kind peoples at Capcom had given us delightous action games of Devil May Cry One, Three and Four. (Not Devil May Cry Two! We doesn’t speak of it! Gollum!)
Then in 2013, Capcom betrays us! They gives Devil May Cry to tricksy Ninja Theory. Nassty Ninja Theory with nassty false Dante! Gollum! Gollum!
We had to go and live in caveses and send angry messages to Ninja Theory on the internets.
For years we lives in caveses, eating fisheses and hating false Dante.
But in 2019 Capcom has given us Devil May Cry 5. Nice Capcom! Kind Capcom!
Number 5 has all the things that we likes, with arcade action, deep combat systems, knowingly cheesey dialogue and Dante’s cool brother, Vergil.
Now we can come back out of the caveses into the nice sun, stop saying angry things on the internets and play happy with Devil May Cry 5. It is PRECIOUS.
User avatar
aidopotato
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 1:30 pm

Re: Our next podcast recording (6.12.20) - 448: Devil May Cry V

Post by aidopotato »

As others here have already said, DMCV's combat is the best in class (sorry Bayonetta, you had a good innings). Dante's more responsive and flexible than ever; Nero's style has deepened considerably since his debut and I thoroughly enjoyed playing as V once I got my head around his play style, which I'm going to call '4th person action'. I was part-way through my DMD run when the penny dropped that I should always be pumping devil trigger into Griffon and Shadow so they automatically take care of business, leaving V free to catch up on his reading in peace. Like everything else- it's totally daft, supremely satisfying and looks incredible in motion.

Less appealing to me are the aesthetics- both visual and conceptual. I too was disappointed that Capcom decided to return to 'Classic' DMC, rather than revisiting the vastly more interesting NinjaTheoryVerse. Aside from the deathly dull environments, it's conception of what is "Cool" and "Badass" just feels outdated to me. No where is this more glaring than in it's treatment of it's female characters. Neither Lady nor Trish have a character trait between them- they barely serve as plot devices. They are things to be rescued (in the nude no less) and ogled, and that's it. Even Nico (the sole likable character in the game) is viewed through this leering, adolescent lens that felt indefensible in 2019.

You could argue that none of this matters to the gameplay, and you'd be right. I had a great time with this game in spite of these issues. The mechanics are rock-solid and polished to perfection; it's just aggravating that in order to enjoy the gameplay, one must tolerate such retrograde, infantile and exclusionary aesthetic trappings. Especially when they already did away with them back in 2013.
Post Reply