Hades

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JaySevenZero
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Hades

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here's where you can contribute your thoughts and opinions for Hades for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.

A friendly reminder that where the feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but keeping it brief is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mostly reading out essays. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
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KarlDaFrog
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by KarlDaFrog »

With all the hype around Hades I had high expectations for the game. I played the Switch version in my hostel dorm room in Adelaide, Australia. I don’t want to be a downer but I’d like to present what I expect to be a dissenting opinion of the game.

First though, some praise. The NoClip documentary is worth a watch for anyone interested in the industry to see a top tier studio with a clear goal, excellent communication with its fans in early access, and a healthy work culture. Truly Supergiant games is a bastion of hope in an often toxic industry.

The presentation of the game is phenomenal, the music and voice actors are all top tier. This is especially impressive noting the change of workplace during the pandemic. The barge song is a stand out track for me, always pumping me up for smashing some foes on a river of lava. Although the visual style is too shadow heavy and “purple-dark” for my taste, the art direction is consistent and the character design wonderfully reflects the deep lore of the game. Primordial Chaos is a highlight for me. What a difficult task it must have been to envision a character so vague and omnipresent, but Jen Zee and the rest of the team smashed it.

Unfortunately, the characters are so engrossing that I often felt disappointed when the one I wanted to give more Nectar to didn’t show up in the House of Hades or on my next run. I slogged all the way to Elysium to get bopped by that darned Bull Asterius, but came back with a bit of Nectar that I wanted to give to Dusa. OK she hasn’t shown up, guess I’ll save it for Sysiphus during my run. Ok, he wasn’t in Tarturus… maybe I’ll get Chaos somewhere? No?

Even when I do get a character I want to give some nectar to, I only get one more conversation with them. I have to run through the entire gauntlet again, just to get a chance at talking to the characters I like. Unfortunately my criticisms only grow from here.

The combat feels boring and repetitive to me. Yes, I know sometimes my dash reflects attacks (the “best” early game boon), and sometimes it leaves a little red swirly from Ares, or a little blue swirly from Poseidon. But none of these really felt impactful to me except in that the health bars on bosses go down faster. I didn’t really feel the “oomph” of bashing my shield into an enemy (unless I got them into a breakable pillar, that felt good!) or the pierce of my spear. Often I felt trapped by my options in combat. I could bait an enemy into a trap, but why take the risk when I could just stun lock an enemy with my special? This is exacerbated by the occasionally long time to spawn new enemies once one “round” has been defeated, sometimes it’s while I’m cleaning up the last few witches, sometimes it’s seconds after I’ve thought I’ve cleared the room.

The feeling of being limited in choices continues on a larger scale. After I’ve just barely scraped by a room, I’ve got 25 health and no Death Defiance’s left, far before I’ve reached the final boss, I simply don’t have the motivation to continue. I’d rather walk into a trap to send myself back to the House of Hades. Sure, maybe I could earn some health back in the next couple of rooms, but if I already know this is a scuffed run, why go on? Maybe I can tell Orpheus more about Eurydice. I’m already not using my favorite weapon because I’m disincentivized to use the same weapon twice with the 20% darkness penalty.

And those Butterfly Balls! With so much attention to detail everywhere else I’m surprised these passed QA. I simply cannot see the butterflies on the Switch in handheld. Yes, maybe it’s my fault I’m playing the game in handheld, but these enemies are SO much smaller than anything else in Hades. These are unreadable when you’re in Elysium with so many special effects in play from the boons you’ve collected. Are these even in Greek mythology?

I’ve seen that starting room so many times, it is so demoralizing to hear that first song and mindlessly waltz through the first two rooms or so before I can really start planning my run with my boons. After getting held up around the end of Elysium or beginning of Temple of Styx a dozen or so times I turned on God Mode, a welcome accessibility option. I had already given up on the game at this point and just wanted to see the end of the celebrated story. The first time I got to Hades I defeated him, and was so eager to see what happened.

Finally I could wrap up this game that had started to overstay its welcome. I had conquered the game (with a bit of help) and was ready to reap my reward. I walked Zagreus through the beautiful snowy overworld to see a conclusion. How would Supergiant elegantly continue the cycle while tying up the story??? Well, my character babbled to his mom for 30 seconds about the events I just played through and quickly slumped over to be sent back home. OF COURSE, one last middle finger from the game. I had anticipated that the loop would continue, but I didn’t think Hades would be so callous in delivery. The mystery of the Olympians’ motivations still intrigues me but not enough for me to keep playing. Demeter as a new God is a nice touch, but the Pacts of Punishment? No no no, you misunderstand me, game, I already was having difficulty, I do not want any additional punishment. I’m told you have to beat Hades ten more times to see any kind of resolution. No thank you.

This is one of those games that I feel like I’m simply missing something. I’m glad other people love the game, but Hades left me with a “meh” feeling overall and a mild case of lepidopterophobia. I really enjoyed the first few hours and really despised the last few. I’ll leave this one to the speedrunners.
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Tolkientaters
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Tolkientaters »

This is the first rogue like or light I've actually completed (even though that may have been down to using God mode). I really enjoyed it, it's got a great visual presentation with some fun combat that doesn't get too repetitive. It's a fun twist on Greek mythology with a compelling take on almost every character that makes meeting someone new a real delight. I don't have much else to say, it's great game.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by stvnorman »

I played this for a few hours when it arrived on Game Pass but really don’t get the fuss. It’s alright and that’s about it. I must be missing something in the glare of all that polish!
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Alex79
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Alex79 »

I am not a fan of Supergiant Games. I didn't like Bastion and thought Transistor was *ok*, however what I have really enjoyed about their games before was the atmosphere and general audiovisual aesthetic. I think their games look and sound fantastic, but so far the gameplay has never quite clicked with me.

I came to Hades with low expectations, despite the near universal praise it had garnered around game of the year discussions and I had to try it for myself. It seemed to be fusing two genres I enjoyed; hack and slash game mechanics surrounded by a rogue-like wrapper. Hades was the first game I downloaded when I got my Xbox a few months back.

I was instantly won over by it's graphics, gameplay and voice acting work. I think they've managed to get some terrific performances from the actors involved, capturing the mood of the characters perfectly. The moment to moment fighting is endlessly fun, and it's always exciting to see what upgrades are coming your way, or what each new room is going to throw at you. I've not managed to complete a run yet, the third area is my limit so far, but it's a game that shall remain installed on my console for as long as I have it, and although I'm not putting in hour long sessions any more it's a game I dip in and out of fairly regularly.

For me, this is the culmination of all of Supergiants previous work with aspects from all of their other games creeping in to Hades; and, again for me, it's their best work so far too.
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DaMonth
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by DaMonth »

Hades is the best rougelike around. I dunno where all this rougelike hate came from in the gaming discussion, oversaturation maybe, but basically everyone agrees it's the exception. Gameplay's great. Poseidon coming in clutch. Music's grand and it's always nice to run in on the couple singing in Asphodel. But I think the real obvious stand out is the writing. Instantly charming dialogue without delving into Marvel-esque quirky banter, so much script that it took about 150 hours I think for me to start hearing repeats. But the best part? I was checking through the mirror, switched to the other side of upgrades on accident and switched back instantly. Zagreus actually said, "Oops, not that." Such a small foresight couldn't be more mindblowing.

I wish for a world with Hephaestus, Hestia, and Apollo DLC but that'd probably literally take years to write and record so I'll take what I can get.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by KissMammal »

stvnorman wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 4:06 pm I played this for a few hours when it arrived on Game Pass but really don’t get the fuss. It’s alright and that’s about it. I must be missing something in the glare of all that polish!
I'm in agreement. I really don't understand what all the fuss is about either.

As someone who doesn't care about story/characters etc the game has to stand or fall simply on its mechanics and 'gamefeel', and, while ok, the gameplay in Hades is far, far too repetitive and grindy to hold my interest. Gave up on it after a few hours.

Hades is notable for me only for the fact that its the game that confirmed once and for all that I do not like Roguelikes.
Not one bit.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Sasquance »

I’m hard-pressed to think of a game that was more important to me over the past few years than Hades.

I’ve been a huge fan of Supergiant since Bastion: Fond memories of buying that with my mom’s credit card in my teens, playing it in the summer heatwave on my Xbox - simply the best!

I was so excited when Hades was announced for the Switch. I’m not a PC gamer, and felt quite left out reading all of the posts on Reddit about the betas and so on. I couldn’t wait until fall of 2020 when Hades would land on the eShop!

Redditors had warned that it’s best to go in blind, and now, after over 1000 hours played, I can’t agree enough. It’s fun to min-max and use your collectables/resources on the optimal upgrades, but it’s so much more fulfilling figuring out Hades for yourself.

Hades ruled 2020-21 for me. Whether it was chucking a spear at dad (sorry, Papa Hades) or chatting it up with Charon and his *noises*, it was so wonderful discovering everything and forming relationships with each and every character.

Even Meg, despite her reminding me of a bad ex from university!

I won’t bother getting into the gameplay too heavily, as everyone will cover that much better than I ever could. But I WILL mention that the visual feedback you get from any of Poseidon’s boons is so addictive. Floodshot plus Beowulf shield equals happiness.

I’ll finish off this jumbled response with the most important part of the Hades experience: The music.

Darren Korb and Supergiant are just so effective at drawing out emotions from the player. In Bastion, they did it to me when I was saving Zulf. In Hades, it was less-so of an emotional response, and much more of a “f*** yeah!” feeling.

Finishing off a boss and getting that jangly strum is just such a good feeling. Take that, Lernie!

I could go on, and on, and on. But it’s easier to just say that Hades is a unique, artistic achievement that has introduced so many people to the genre of roguelikes, and Supergiant and co. deserve every single little bit of praise that they’ve been getting for this game.
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Kermit McElmo
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Kermit McElmo »

I have made about 50 runs in Hades, and still not killed that ******! I have got to Hades 3 times and on the 3rd he had a few millimetres of life left then I died, luckily I didn't launch my Switch across the room!

However I still love this game. For such a small ge the world building is fantastic, I expected nothing less from the makers of Bastion. It truly is the perfect pick up and play game, which is why I'm glad I bought it on the Switch!

The combat feels tight, yet simple which makes it easy to pick up and the weapon variations and how they modify with boons keep it fresh.

Boons, yes, boons. This does lead me to my criticisms. I feel a lot of your chance of success in this game comes down to the luck if which boons you get. Sometimes on a run I know I wont reach Hades just by the feel of the boons I have come across. This does annoy me.

My other criticism is that it's so hard to upgrade mt weapons, although I have heard it's easier to do this once you kill Hades, but I do feel that I am caught in a rut.

Overall I highly recomend this game, specially for Switch users. I feel if I had this on PS4 (Xbox or PC) I would play thia much less.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Marlew »

*Not for inclusion*

Great to see something other than a stream of gushing praise for this derivative, limited, smarmy game.
bixer

Re: 532: Hades

Post by bixer »

I'm another one of those that typically bounces off of literally every other rogue-like/lite yet adores Hades.

I even ignored most of the hype at release as I tend to hear the term 'rogue-lite' and instantly assume it'll be of no interest to me whatsoever. I suppose I was fortunate that Hades released on the Switch shortly before my birthday, as one of my friends turned on my Switch while I had gone to the toilet and bought Hades on the eShop for me for my birthday. Naturally I was grateful to be given anything at all, but I do still vividly remember thinking 'Why couldn't you have just bought me an eShop voucher!'

Not more than maybe an hour or two in and I quickly understood where all that hype had been coming from. It really does have that 'just one more run' feeling as you feel yourself getting slightly better each time. I will unashamedly concede that I also turned on 'God Mode' after realising a few hours in that I'd probably never beat the game without it, but I similarly really appreciate how that itself isn't just a lazy easy mode where every enemy is a pushover. It's an easy mode that still makes you put the work in yourself as it only increases your damage resistance by 2% after each failed run. It's a fantastic idea that prevents you from ever becoming too frustrated as you know that eventually you will find your perfect level.

After Hades opened my eyes to the possibility of being able to enjoy that genre, I've since tried a handful of other notable titles like Enter the Gungeon and The Binding of Isaac to see if I'd been missing out after all. Nope. Both quickly reminded me why I'd shown no interest in the genre previously. Turns out Hades really is just special after all.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by caponeadam »

The only Supergiant game that instantly hooked me instantly, I loved it but I think I played it wrong. The biggest gripe I had was the god mode being called god mode, perhaps this is just me working within the games industry for so long but to me 'God Mode' suggests cheating, a way to debug the game. So I avoided using it for the longest time, I enabled it after around 40 runs. It seems most people were finishing this game after 20-30 runs but for me it took in excess of 60.

I really wish I enabled it earlier, as by the time I finally did my first full run I was exhausted by the repetitive nature of the game. God mode sounded like cheating to me but really it's more akin to switching on easy mode, something I often do when I'm short on time and the game's systems are no longer evolving.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Buskalilly »

After hearing TCGS, along with a few friends, bang on about this for all of 2020, I had to give it a go.

I think this is a game that absolutely nails it across the board. Mechanically, the game is satisfying to play moment-to-moment. The metagame is compelling on top of the individual runs. The story is tied into the mechanics beautifully. And then the story is actually good, and heartfelt, and well-told with great voice-acting.

I have at least one friend who obstinately refuses to engage with anything procedurally generated and he's missing out on a fantastic experience which feels hand crafted, even if what those hands hath craft is a mechanical, procedural little thing.

A hell of a game.
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Hyperdeath84
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Hyperdeath84 »

Having only dabbled in roguelite games before, I bought Hades based on the high review scores and incredibly appealing art style - the cover instantly grabbed my attention when I saw it in Asda for a mere £22 on PS5. Given how much time I put into Hades and the amount of pleasure it gave me £22 is an absolute bargain.

Firstly the overall aesthetic is wonderful, with some of the most charming and expressive character designs I’ve seen in a long time. As the player will be looking at these mostly static images of characters many times over during dialogue, it’s impressive that because of how much personality the game’s character portraits convey that I never tired of looking at these beautiful illustrations. On top of that each area of the game has a strong sense of theming and its enemies also fit into that theme as you progress through each region. My one slight criticism of the visuals is that the cacophony of effects during combat can sometimes make it hard to read exactly where Zagreus is in relation to enemy attacks making certain encounters feel chaotic; but even that could be argued as a positive as managing that chaos and surviving is part of the challenge.

Mechanically the game is very well balanced with its fast paced hack and slash combat bolstered by an impressive array of builds and strong incentives to experiment with differing play styles and mastery of each weapon. Because runs only last up to about half an hour the game can be equally enjoyed in short bursts or marathon sessions, with the refrain of “one more run” dissolving the hours as you keep coming back to try and escape again and again. While there will be optimum builds for speedrunning, I get the sense that Hades is the kind of game with which no two players will have the same experience. When you consider how much the choice of Mirror abilities, weapons, boons, and Daedelous hammers affects each run, the gameplay always feels fresh and keeps you coming back for more - which is fitting with Zagreus’ endless determination to escape. In fact the game’s integration of mechanics and story is so good that they almost don’t feel like differing aspects of its design at all, and Zagreus is just as enjoyable to control during dialogue as he is in combat.

Speaking of Zagreus one cannot discuss this game without addressing the excellent characters and how interacting with them is tied into what might be Hades greatest accomplishment: the way the game handles fail states. Failure does not feel like failure in this game, it feels like an opportunity to progress your relationships with the inhabitants of the House of Hades. I can honestly say that despite its difficulty, Hades is one of the least frustrating games I’ve ever played. There may be a brief pang of bitterness at dying during a run but it is instantly quashed once you go and pet Cerberus or continue that conversation you were having with Nyx. As someone who is prone to raging at games from time to time it impressed me immensely that Hades made its central roguelite structure work so well that I don’t recall being upset with the game once. I wanted to develop these relationships and returning to the House afforded me the opportunity to do that so I ended up welcoming death. Our protagonist Zagreus has an affable, roguish demeanour that makes him instantly likeable in his struggle to escape and find his purpose. Along the way he meets many interesting characters drawn from Greek myth and every single one of them is compelling and worth building a relationship with, even his seemingly awful father, the titular Hades. My personal favourites are Nyx, Achilles, Artemis, Thanatos and
Spoiler: show
Persephone
- but any of them could easily be someone’s favourite as they are just that well written and performed. The themes of reconnection and reconciliation run through nearly every character arc and make the journey to the game’s true ending feel oddly wholesome for a game set in the underworld. The game’s representation is also commendable with a diverse cast of varying sexualities and genders, all of which fit into established Greek myth yet also feel representative of modern society without descending into tokenism. These days strong voice acting is almost a given but nonetheless these performances are still impressive and bring these characters to life.

I’d also like to mention that the music is, like the rest of the game, truly excellent with special mention going to the final boss music which is a particularly energetic heavy metal version of the main theme that perfectly fits the tone of that battle and really gets the blood pumping.

Three word review: One more run!
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Seph
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Seph »

If definition for the idiom "living up to expectations" needs to be rewritten in every reference book. It should now simply read: see Hades.

Everything about this game is polished to perfection. The art looks incredible, the gameplay is fast and snappy, the characters are fully formed and fun, the voice acting is superb, the story and lore are fantastically rich, and the music is sensational. Supergiant Games, with its relatively small team, are clearly a talented bunch and Hades feels like the culmination of all their games to date.

Rouguelikes have been a hit-and-miss genre for me, as they usually require a lot of time and patience: two things I'm running increasingly low on these days. However, Hades has just the right mix of satisfying gameplay and addictive replayability that meant every spare moment I had during the months after buying it were spent having "one more go". I think it took between 15-20 runs for Zagreus to finally escape to the surface, but after that it definitely clicked and the wins came thick and fast. Finishing two runs back-to-back in one sitting is one of my favourite gaming moments of the last few years.

Any game that writes repeated playthroughs into the story is also a winner for me. The fact that Zagreus and his mates are always aware of what's happened, and I really enjoyed interacting with the various inhabitants of the House of Hades after every run to hear what they have to say next. The reactions of the big boss himself were always my favourite, as they revealed so much depth to his character, especially as Hades is often a one-note villain in most adaptations of Greek mythology.

The boon system is easily the highlight of the game, in how it forces you to try out different styles and not just rely on the same tricks. I can never remember the names of the boons, but the one that basically turns your dropped bloodstones into a lightning rod to attack nearby enemies was always an instant winner and likely accounted for about half of my successful runs. The weapons are great too. Just when I think I have a favourite, another shiny toy pops up that allows me to adapt my play-style further.

I think the most surprising part of Hades was the levels of dialogue. Not only is it well written and witty, but the amount of speech options was mindblowing. I don't think I ever heard the same line repeated twice unless I accidentally pressed the interact button in front of a character. What's fun is equipping certain items and listening to what certain bosses and NPCs have to say about them. I like how even the boon have this quality as the gods are quick to talk crap about each other when you pick them up.

The music is also excellent, to a level that it's often something I turn to when I want some background noise for reading. I enjoyed the mix of Eastern and Mediterranean influences and instrumentation with full-on thrash metal; especially how each of the main tracks go from "mild ambience" to "do I hear boss music?". I think it's Korb's finest work to date and I enjoyed the Sound of Play interview with him too. The man is an artist in the purest sense and the real secret weapon for any Supergiant Games release.

If there's any criticism I would level at Hades, it's that the boss variety is a little lacking. I like how the first stage changes it up a lot, but everything after that is largely the same and becomes repetitive. Sure, it allows you to become more familiar with patterns and sequences, but after 15 runs I was tired of seeing that damn Hydra again and again (though I like how Zagreus eventually comes up with a name for him - Lernie).

Another thing I have noticed is that, despite the overwhelming acclaim Hades has received and my own enthusiasm, I haven't been able to get any of my friends to pick this up. I'm not sure if it's the art style or the gameplay, but I've found that it's an incredibly hard sell, even to the guy I know who ranks Bastion as his favourite game ever. I just hope I'm in the minority and this game has enjoyed amazing commercial success.

I picked this up on Epic during one of their voucher sales, so I think it cost me under £10, and it currently stands as the most played PC game I own. I think it's fair to say I got my money's worth.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Shinywailordguy »

Everything I read online told me this was the roguelite game for people who don't like roguelite games, and it would finally make me see what's so great about them. But sadly after a couple of hours I felt the usual boredom and tedium setting in.

I can respect how the story setup and gameplay tie together to justify the cycle of dying and restarting, and to give some small sense of progress each time. In the end though, it still comes down to playing through a set of auto-generated levels over and over again while constantly being sent back to the start, and that will never be as satisfying to me as making continuous progress exploring a handcrafted world.

I loved the characters in Pyre but for whatever reason the characters in Hades didn't do it for me at all so the reward of getting new dialogue from them after each death wasn't enough incentive for me to want to keep playing. Once I reached and died to the final boss for the first time I decided that was enough for me.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by ashman86 »

I've played a lot of games in my time, and I've liked most, loved many, and hated few. But I know a game's special when it dominants my thoughts so completely that every second of free time I have to spare goes immediately towards it without hesitation. Hades is such a game for me.

Like many, I've been a fan of Supergiant since Bastion, so I was following along with Hades' development for a long while. When it hit early access on Steam, I decided I'd dip in. Picked it up, installed it, and then never fired it up because I've realized I don't actually like playing single player games before they're finished. Once it version 1.0, though, it. Was. ON!

Hades take on the roguelite formula clicked with me in the best way, and smarter people than I have already discussed just how and why the narrative wrapper it presents works so well with the mechanics of a roguelite and propels the player to continue playing without ever feeling like they're "losing" the game. There's a "one more room" feeling to the game akin to the famous Civilization "one more turn" experience. I could blow through a 20-minute run in what felt like seconds. "Just one more run before bed," I'd tell myself before finally lying down a few short hours before dawn.

For me, Hades siren's call continued for weeks and dozens of hours until I'd at last unlocked the final achievement (my first-ever 100% clear on Steam). Even then, I was drawn to the game, determined to unlock Skelly's final statue, which I finally did using a Fists of Malphon build that worked out better than I could have dreamed even on 32 heat (on YT here if anyone's interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpSXQrFYlAo).

Helluva game, Hades.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Nicktendo »

TWR: Live. Die. Repeat.
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by Wuqinglong »

I really like Hades. Unlike what from my perspective appears to be the common sentiment, I did not enjoy Supergiant Games' titles prior to this one. I finished Bastion but was left confused as to why it was so lauded and chalked it up to not having been there contemporaneously for it. I then tried transistor but quickly bounced off it after a few hours. I didn't even try with Pyre and after watching my wife playing it knew it wouldn't be in my ballpark. When I saw her playing Hades however, I immediately knew I would end up playing it thoroughly when I had the time. Cane and Rinse was, as is so often the case, the perfect impetus to get around to it.

Hades finds a great balance of difficulty and progression. Once you have all the permanent upgrades unlocked the base difficulty feels almost laughably easy but by that point you are adding the modifiers to keep things tense and engaging. I had my first clear after around 10 attempts largely owing to experience in the genre and some luck in item drops but knew I had barely scratched the surface. I particularly enjoyed the narrative reward with each of the first 10, I think, clears. If i had any one criticism it would be that on-hit effect builds seemed far more powerful than critical builds but it is entirely possible I simply did not experiment until I found the synergistic combo to yield similar results to my preferred play style. Focusing on on-hit effects I got into a comfy groove that let me clear 11 runs each time ratcheting up the difficulty modifiers slightly until it ended unceremoniously when I decided to experiment on run 12. The weapons all feel great, the balance is superb, and the game is just fun to play. I could go on about how the game's art style and the voice work of the characters are top-notch as well but I'll just leave it saying that anyone who enjoys action and or rogue-like/rogue-lite games should check this game out.

3 Word Review: Dad Murder Simulator
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Re: 532: Hades

Post by the_t_time »

While Rouge Legacy may hold the distinction of being my first Rouge-like, Hades holds the honor of being the game that got me hooked on the genre. I love the art direction and the combat is wonderful. Hades is one of those games where everything from the voice acting, gameplay, music and visuals are done with such a high level of polish, care and competency that there's really not much to pick apart. Sometimes as a gamer you just have to throw your hands up and say, "well, they did it. That's a damn good game"
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