Darksiders II

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JaySevenZero
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Darksiders II

Post by JaySevenZero »

Here's where you can contribute your thoughts and opinions for Darksiders II for potential inclusion in the forthcoming podcast.

A friendly reminder that where the feedback for the podcast is concerned, we love it - but keeping it brief is appreciated. We do want to include a breadth of opinions where appropriate, but no-one wants a discussion podcast that’s mostly reading out essays. Better to save yourself time and cut to the chase if you can.
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MauricioMM
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Re: 527: Darksiders II

Post by MauricioMM »

Let’s get this fact straight first: yes, the Darksiders games are infamously derivative. In particular the first one, it felt like the most Zelda game not done by Nintendo I ever played. But you know what? That’s not really a big negative if you think about it, I actually liked it despite that. The gameplay was fine, the writing and characters were fine, the visuals were very good in its own Unreal-Engine-comic-adaptation style, and it was above all promising (yes, despite the derivative-ness of it).

A promise that I think was mostly fulfilled with this sequel, as far as I remember (the last time I played the game was a few months after it launched, so forgive my bad memory). I believe the devs managed to overcome the first games' limitations in a few ways, notably:
  • For starters, a more likeable protagonist. Death was still a brooding, moody man but his own brand of moodiness suited him a bit better than War’s, plus he was a surprisingly cheeky dude :lol: His arsenal and movesets were really cool, too, and Michael Wincott as his voice actor was a great choice. (You were a great pick for War too, Liam O’Brien. The Darksiders games always had a great cast!)
  • The world, or better put, worlds, themselves became my favorite improvement of the game over the previous one. Post-apocalyptic Earth was a rad enough, if a bit repetitive, setting but the addition of the other more fantasy-like locations felt just right for this game. All were cool but I especially loved the Kingdom of the Dead, the Forge Lands, and Lostlight.
  • The new locations were refreshing not only from a visual standpoint but also from a musical one as well. Jesper Kyd was another great choice for the game. In particular, I enjoyed his more atmospheric compositions.
  • The dungeons and battles became more entertaining. They were good in the first game, mind you, but they thankfully got more difficult (without becoming too frustrating) and more varied this time around. Plus, backtracing felt more rewarding too, maybe because there was not as much of it as in the first game, or maybe because exploration was just that enjoyable.
So yeah, I had a blast with it. It wasn’t a terribly memorable game and it didn’t break new grounds but at the end of the day it was pretty fun. I still have Darksiders 3 and Genesis pending but I’m eager to play them someday, especially Genesis (Strife seems like an even more fun character than Death).

---

My three-word review:
Zelda For Dudebros
(...like me :lol:)
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Scrustle
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Re: 527: Darksiders II

Post by Scrustle »

Darksiders 2 is a game I have a lot of affection for and I can’t help but come back to it repeatedly over the years. It almost feels like a game made specifically for me, being a synthesis of a lot of my favourite things from across the medium. Like the series as a whole, it wears its inspirations on its sleeve, liberally emulating the likes of Zelda, Devil May Cry, and Bayonetta. While there are plenty of ideas borrowed from other places, those are the ones that really speak to me.

The combat system is easily one of the best of this style from any developer outside Japan. It’s tight, stylish, and has a great flow to it that makes it click for me in a very satisfying way. The pacing of the combos just feels right, and it actually has a decent level of depth to it. While it may not reach the heights of the action games that inspired it, it took the right lessons from them in how different moves behave in specific ways in order to give them a certain function. So if you put the time in, you can use them as building blocks to uncover the emergent properties they have when used together.

The Zelda-style dungeons are a lot of fun as well, and do a good job of scratching the same itch. The overall dungeon design is solid, albeit not ground-breaking. The tools you use to solve puzzles within those dungeons however have a few really interesting ideas going on. The Soul Splitter specifically makes for some very fun puzzles, and is an idea I haven’t seen replicated anywhere else, despite it seeming like an obvious combination of a few very well worn concepts. In the DLC in particular it gets used for some pretty clever puzzles. The DLC dungeons in general are some of the best in the whole game too.

Aesthetically it’s quite pleasing as well. I like the bold, chunky comic book style of the visuals. Everything has a sharpness to it, but a sense of thickness as well. The variety of environments in the different realms you visit is also really nice. It gives the art style room to breath and depict different moods, and helps the game feel like an expansive journey across different worlds. I like being able to see other parts of this universe aside from just Earth as the other mainline games focus on, which can get a bit visually repetitive as a result. The soundtrack is also great, some of Jesper Kyd’s best work.

There are some things about this game that I wish were better though. The most glaring is that it is obviously only half finished. Once you go through two of the four major overworlds, you find out that the back “half” of the game is only a fraction of the size of the preceding half. While I still enjoy that part of the game, it is a bit disappointing to see it narrow down in scope so much. At least the DLC dungeons help flesh out this part of the game better. It’s a clear sign that this game went through production troubles, presumably because of THQ’s ongoing financial collapse at that time.

There’s also the remaster making questionable choices in changing the art style of the game, as well as being very technically flawed. The lighting is arguably better than the original, but it muted the colour palette and is very buggy and unstable. The original has a more consistent look, but on PC it is perhaps even more buggy. It’s a shame that there’s no truly great way to play the game these days with no caveat.

But despite all the flaws and issues it has, I’ve never had much trouble overlooking them. It’s easily my favourite game in the franchise, and it’s always in the back of my mind. It’s become something of a comfort game for me, and I’ve never failed to have a good time whenever I’ve felt the pull to go back for yet another run.

---

P.S. This isn’t meant as part of my contribution to the episode, but there were some related things I wanted to mention. I’m actually kind of shocked to see this game finally get covered on the podcast. I gave up hope of ever seeing it happen years ago. Glad to see it finally get a shot. Also, this has been my first time contributing to an episode since the requests to keep things short began. I know I’ve gone on way too long in the past in previous posts, but I was never under the impression that everything I said would make the cut. It’s not my podcast, I totally understand if whoever was editing a given episode felt like they wanted to cut stuff for being superfluous or hurting the pacing of the show. My intention was always simply that if there was some topic that came up on the show that I really wanted to say something about, I wouldn’t be left kicking myself for not at least conveying it. But even with all that said, I have tried to cut things down this time and be as brief as I can. Not sure how well I did, but again I’m not under the assumption that it has to be retained 100% uncut.
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MattL
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Re: 527: Darksiders II

Post by MattL »

For years prior to the Darksiders series, I had always questioned why no one other than Nintendo made Zelda-style games. I mean, it was a winning formula for them, so why not another developer? Then, along came Darksiders and I was thrilled for about a minute, until I saw the art style. It was not my thing personally and I later learned exactly why it wasn't my style - because of Joe Madueira, one of my most hated comic artists and writers. Regardless, I really wanted to see more studios tackle the Zelda formula and so I wished Darksiders well, even though I myself would not be purchasing it.

Several years later in early 2012, along came Darksiders 2 which had supposedly fixed many of the criticisms of the first game. Like it's predecessor, I was, again, interested, but, again, I did not play it, this time due to an abundance of other excellent games. As I recall, the end of 2011 and early 2012 was a packed time period for games. I believe Mass Effect 3, KOF13, Dark Souls, and possibly Dishonored and Deus Ex Human Revolution all came out around this time and all were much higher priority for me.

Eventually, Darksiders 2 Deathinitive Edition made it's way to PS+ and I finally said to myself, "this time, I'm finally going to play it." And I did. For about three hours. To me, Darksiders 2 was the biggest "meh" possible. The combat was nothing special. The art style was fine. The levels were okay. Nothing was particularly bad, nor was anything particularly good. It just competently existed.

There's something I believe Gary Butterfield from Duckfeed.tv has said about games that struck him in a similar way. He, I believe called them, "a Video Game Ass Video Game," which I understand to mean a bland product that fits the definition of a video game, but just doesn't have what it takes to make a long lasting impression. That perfectly encapsulates my thoughts on Darksiders 2.

Three word review: Hoped For More.
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raisinbman
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Re: Our next podcast recording (9.7.22) - 527: Darksiders II

Post by raisinbman »

Not sure if I'll have time to properly cane and rinse this, but it apparently(even the Deathinitive edition) only supports X360 controllers on PC? In steam had to go into properties > controller > enable steam input. This game has been dirt cheap to free multiple times, but still seems kinda odd if you're claiming there's a better rereleased/remastered version and I've gotta tinker with it(unlike, for instance, the Kingdom Hearts collection on the epic store which recognizes my PS5 controller right away)
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raisinbman
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Re: Our next podcast recording (9.7.22) - 527: Darksiders II

Post by raisinbman »

so you may be thinking, how can I be back with feedback so quickly? Well, the game is buggy and I have to delete my save and start over if I want to finish it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtddCvTsCyk


I think I'm tapping out, sadly.

~~~~~~

still has 360 notations on PC, which is confusing. Actually, 'confusing' gets upgraded to 'problematic' when we've also got QTEs.you pick up loot, it should probably tell you something about what you're picking up beyond a confirmation jingle, even just the name showing "rarity"

don't think i'm in love with holding a button to lock on. I understand you may not want to be permanently locked on, but that's why games with lockons let you lock off of a target

they give you 'rare gear', to the point a screen pops up telling you lore, but there's no music stinger accompanying it? seems like an easy miss with that

Overall, though I can't really grade this game as I didn't finish it, BUT it's still worth talking about. Here we go: I enjoyed the color palette, you'd think for a game starring 'death', they'd just stick to heavy metal and a brown color palette, but no! It's very world of warcraft-esque, and that's a good thing. Death is very mobile, maybe jsut because I don't do action games, or 3D platformers all that often anymore, I enjoyed controlling him. The game game doesn't punish you for falling off the ledge, which is always a plus. Coming from games where there is ALOT of talking, it was pretty shocking to actually have a character who doesn't talk and can opt out of most conversations. In a sense, it was a good thing as I was planning on just blazing through the game, and it's almost like the game knew that itself. The main character dies(I think?) at the beginning of the game, and no one really bats an eye, setting the tone for the adventure that seems like it's a step away from being written as if it was a 90s Grimdark adventure, but doesn't go there(thankfully).

My experience was not great, but many should have gotten this game for free/very cheap in numerous bundles/giveaways, so I'd recommend it if you're careful managing your saves or are conscious that you can break puzzles easily, so don't do any "speedrunner shenanigans".

again, i'm not sure how much of a 'deathfinitive' version this is, as I broke the audio and what I mentioned already.

~~~~


Scrustle, i think your input will be fine. I tend to write longform, and the ladies/gents/others of cane and rinse tend to be able to pick and choose what's appetizing from what I write.
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Scrustle
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Re: Darksiders II

Post by Scrustle »

Just listened to the episode and I had some thoughts on some of the points brought up about the combat and the RPG mechanics. I think this game does have more depth than it generally gets credit for, as I think a lot of similar games do. But it is something you have to dig to find. I think my first run through the game I had a similar experience to what seemed to be the general feel on the podcast, but as I’ve played it over and over, I started feeling like there was more there to mine out of it if I just put the effort in. And once I did, there actually was. I started trying to create my own combos and seeing what I could do, which was pretty fruitful. But later on I actually discovered someone who has made a couple of combo videos with the game. Like the kind of thing you see with expert DMC players. The some of the stuff they had worked out was really impressive. I was thinking of bringing it up in my episode post, but I figured it didn't make sense to talk about in that context. But I’ll link it here if anyone is interested.



It sounds like for a lot of the people on the pod, the RPG mechanics overshadowed the combo system though, and that became the thing that drew more attention while actually playing. I can understand why that would be the case. I guess it shows something of a contradiction in the game design, where it surfaces one much more to the detriment of encouraging experimenting with the other. Actually this is something that occurred to me before when it comes to Nier Automata. If anything I’d say that game suffers from it a lot worse. That game really pushed the chip system hard, and lets you do some crazy overpowered things with it. It was also a pretty common criticism that the combat was shallow or boring, etc. But if you look up what is possible with the game’s combat system from people who really know how to pick it apart, there’s a lot there. But the game doesn’t really do anything to let you know.

Also the bit about the bosses feeling conspicuously prescriptive, that’s also perhaps a sign of conflicting design mentalities butting up against each other. I’ve never felt that way about them, but I can see why someone would. Generally I don’t have particularly strong feelings on the bosses. They’re alright, fun enough, but not where the combat shines best. But it also reminds me of this problem being more severe in another game. I think the bosses in DmC have an issue with this. It’s far more apparent there since that game is supposed to be focused around little else than combat that is supposed to have depth and freedom to it. But the bosses do feel very much like that Zelda design of hitting the weak spot to stun them so you get an opening to wail on them, rinse and repeat for three phases. It makes a bit more sense in Darksiders because it’s copying Zelda in many other ways too though.
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