PC Build Advice

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James
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by James »

Scrustle wrote:I've never bought the argument that not having to use the disc is a plus either. Is it really so hard to simply get up for a second and put a disc in a tray? Is it worth handing away all that control simply for that? And anyway, I kind of like the ritual of putting the disc in. It adds something to the experience. It doesn't feel as special when you're just clicking on an icon.
I'll play devil's advocate here, and say that for persons who have difficulties with physical mobility, not having to change discs can be a massive advantage. On a more personal note, not having to store discs is a big deal when living in a relatively small house.

I think the most important thing is to have a choice, and it's a shame that that isn't the case for PC games any more. The alternatives to Steam (GOG, Humble, Desura, etc) are all digital, and even without DRM, as is often the case with direct downloads for smaller games, the files are still at the mercy of server maintenance.
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

Update on this if anyone's interested. I ordered a pre-built PC. Went for significantly higher spec than anything else I considered so far. Can't remember all the specifics, but it's a 4.0Ghz CPU, with 16GBs RAM, and an Nvidia GeForce GTX970.

I also wanted to bring up another question here too. With boxed PC games, how does DLC work?
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ratsoalbion
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by ratsoalbion »

Same as it does with boxed console games really.
Nice set-up btw! Now I'm back in employment I'm starting to think about souping up my already fine, but two year old, machine.
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

What I mean is that, what if I get a boxed game that doesn't use Steam, but Steam is the only place where they sell the DLC?
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by ratsoalbion »

I think you can always buy the dlc direct from the publisher. Although I have to say, running a gaming PC in 2014 without Steam seems to me a bit like running a fridge without electricity! :)
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

I'm not intending to avoid it completely. That's kind of impossible, and it would be missing out on some good deals of course. Plus, I already have a Steam account with some games on it, so I already need to use it anyway.

But to clarify, does that mean a non-Steam game won't be compatible with Steam DLC, and if you can't get the DLC outside of Steam, you won't be able to get it at all?
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magicjoef
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by magicjoef »

You'll probably find most of the boxed games you pick up will install through Steam, and from there you can add DLC. Or, if it is an EA game Origin will do the same thing.

For things that install without a service like that, I presume they'll offer some kind of in game menu option to direct you to where to purchase. I don't think DLC bought through Steam would work with a standalone install of the game.

Gog games are all DRM free, and I believe that if they sell games with DLC then they bundle the install together, or give you extra download options in your account for separate content, similar thing with Humble.
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

Resurrecting this thread to ask a question I've been thinking about lately.

I was wondering about a specific detail about the relationship between frame rate and v-sync. V-sync limits frame rate, since it stops a frame being displayed if it hasn't finished being rendered, and waits until the next appropriate screen refresh before displaying the next completely rendered frame. Is this something that gets properly displayed on a frame rate counter? I would assume it would be, since when I turn my frame counter on it never goes above 60, as my TV displays at 60Hz. If my frame counter was showing the number of frames regardless of the refresh rate, I would be getting numbers above 60.

But if v-sync limits frames to refresh rate, and the counter showed that, when I can't get a constant 60fps on a particular game it would only be showing only either 30 or 60. Not something in the 40s and 50s, which I have seen on a few occasions. So what's going on? Am I actually getting 40- or 50-something frames with v-sync on, or am I actually jumping between 30 and 60, with the counter being inaccurate most of the time?
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magicjoef
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by magicjoef »

Well, disclaimer that I'm no expert, but I have thought about this before too!

So actually with a frame counter you should see numbers above 60 even if your screen runs at 60hz. You just don't see them all I think. You would have to limit the frames in software somehow for the number to be capped like that. Maybe in the game or in your GPU control panel? Did you set v-sync globally in the control panel? Which frame counter are you using?

With v-sync on you can still get any number, it just waits and makes sure that refreshes are in sync, it won't actually lock the frame count, other than capping at the refresh rate.

I think that is why V-Sync can feel laggy, because it doesn't just drop frames, it delays them. Maybe?
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

I'm using Nvidia Shadow Play for the frame counter. For v-sync I usually use the in-game setting, but when that doesn't work I use the control panel setting.

I have had a few games where I can change the refresh rate settings in-game, but even with games that don't have that, I'm still not going above 60. I haven't tried lowering the in-game refresh rate and seeing what that does to the frame counter though. All I know about that is that I have a game that randomly changes its resolution and refresh rate every time you boot it up, which I discovered when I noticed the game was running in a much lower frame rate than usual on one occasion.

What exactly do you mean with the refreshes being in sync and capping the refresh rate? That's what I've been confused about. I was under the impression that despite what frame rate you may be getting in a game, it's not really the true rate unless it's a multiple of 30. Like if you're getting a frame rate between 30 and 60, any frames that don't line up with the refresh rate are essentially thrown away. So even if you have a 60Hz refresh rate, since it can't match that with the FPS, it only actually shows a new frame on every other refresh, i.e at 30Hz. Or does that not happen if you have an unlocked frame rate or something?
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by magicjoef »

Hmm, this might be where my knowledge gets limited!

I basically thought it was a bit of a free for all, which is why tearing can sometimes be an issue, because the frames in the game don't line up with the refresh rate of the monitor. V-sync counters that by ensuring they happen at the same time (at the expense of performance).

When I referred to capping, I meant that v-sync will naturally not let the game go above 60 fps if your monitor is 60 hz.

Not sure why you're not seeing a number higher than 60 at any point though. Even in an old game that won't tax your GPU? I think I have ShadowPlay set up on mine, so I'll take a look at the counter (my screen is also 60hz)
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Scrustle
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Scrustle »

I think I need to do more testing to see exactly what's going on. I don't have my counter on very often, so I don't know what it does in a wide range of situations.

And now that I think about it, I get the feeling I am missing something. If what I'm thinking of really was true, it seems like it would be more common knowledge. It seems like something that would be a bigger deal if it was the norm. Also, it would mean that frame rates lower than 15 wouldn't be possible, as you can't half that in to an integer to fit in to a refresh rate. But of course games do sometimes run at lower than 15fps sometimes.

Like I remember seeing that Digital Foundry article on AC Unity, and the PS4 version dropped to something close to 10fps in crowded areas. And of course there's Dark Souls too. I have the 360 version, so I know all to well how badly that runs sometimes.

Oh, also another note that may be relevant. As I think I've said before, I'm running my computer through a TV, not an actual PC monitor. That might have something to do with the refresh rate. I think it can go up to something like 100Hz in certain modes, but it sets itself to 60Hz when you plug a computer in to it.
Jusifer

Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Jusifer »

so not in straight relation to the thread but it's the frst pc thread i found so, do you guys use any macros in gaming? i recently bought a new keyboard that has dedicated buttons for macros and such but find it hard to implement them in to any use. do you have any use of such or are they just sitting there un used?
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macstat
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by macstat »

You could just start a new macro thread ;)

I only once used macros on my razer Black Widow, but its pretty funny story. I was playing gold game in World of Warcraft and crafted few thousand of certain item. That item was actually a container that you needed to open afterwards. Opening took about 1.5 second so i programmed one of the buttons to loop a "open this item" -> delay 1,5 second and repeat. Then i placed an eraser on that key and went to see a movie :D
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by Jusifer »

macstat wrote:You could just start a new macro thread ;)

I only once used macros on my razer Black Widow, but its pretty funny story. I was playing gold game in World of Warcraft and crafted few thousand of certain item. That item was actually a container that you needed to open afterwards. Opening took about 1.5 second so i programmed one of the buttons to loop a "open this item" -> delay 1,5 second and repeat. Then i placed an eraser on that key and went to see a movie :D
nice thinking!

i find it very hard to find threads and talk about macro usage and when i do it's usually just something that makes a thing a second or two faster. maybe i was expecting too much :D games are made in ways usually that take the least time any way with the least button presses. maybe I'm just not that creative to think of ways to implement them
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macstat
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Re: PC Build Advice

Post by macstat »

Well there's also the thing that a lot of games consider some macros as breach of terms of usage, since they could give you an unfair advantage. I dont have details on that topic, but i read a bunch of forum threads of different games (MMOs mostly) where people reported being banned for using macros.
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