Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by ratsoalbion »

"No one is above the law, not even the president" - Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson.

http://bbc.in/2kcerm5
Joshihatsumitsu

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Joshihatsumitsu »

On a side note: how is everyone dealing with everything going on at the moment? As in: how do you balance being informed and engaged without it consuming every part of your soul?

My primary, emotional reaction to even seeing a picture of Donald Trump, long before he was even considering running for president, is one of repulsion and disgust. And now over just one week of his presidency it's just... ugh... there aren't enough words to describe how petty and insecure this child is.

I cannot not be engaged: the horrible things that are unfolding should never be tolerated or accepted. And its reassuring that so many other people are feeling the same way, and are taking action. To do nothing isn't an option.

But we are all only human, and I'm curious about how others are balancing this need for engagement on a larger scale, with just the need to get through the day and not be overwhelmed by everything? How are others maintaining and managing their own sanity?
nickturner13

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by nickturner13 »

I must admit, i am still obsessed daily with keeping up with what is going on in the world. So much so that my love of music, and video games, have all fallen by the wayside.

The first thing I read when I wake up, and the last things I read when i fall asleep, all tend to be from reddit/r/politics.

Unfortunately the headphone socket on my phone broke about 2 months ago, and since then I've not even been able to distract myself via podcasts such as CaR, SoP, and any others that i regularly listen to. It's just a continuous stream of "Trump is taking this world down the toilet!"

Thus, I am 100% struggling with maintaining sanity.

However... having visited a doctor several times in recent months, I actually feel in a much better place mentally than I have been for 10 years or more, possibly even 25 years or more.

I suppose the moral of the story is, if you are really affected at a profound level by the events in the world around us, maybe the best thing to do is seek professional advice, as the only person that is going to be severely affected by such thoughts is yourself.
Joshihatsumitsu

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Joshihatsumitsu »

nickturner13 wrote: April 12th, 2017, 11:06 pmHowever... having visited a doctor several times in recent months, I actually feel in a much better place mentally than I have been for 10 years or more, possibly even 25 years or more.

I suppose the moral of the story is, if you are really affected at a profound level by the events in the world around us, maybe the best thing to do is seek professional advice, as the only person that is going to be severely affected by such thoughts is yourself.
Good on you for getting help! It's not always an easy thing to do, and that you took the steps and went through with it is great.

I did a similar thing back in 2004-05, where I went to my doctor, and an subsequently a counsellor, and it turned out I had depression. And with some help and medication (it is just a chemical imbalance after all, and can be treated/managed) I was able to get back to (what some would refer to as) "normal". I still experience highs and lows, but I can manage and handle it much better.

I'm not sure about the mother country, but on this British colony called Australia attitudes and support towards mental illness is slowly improving. There's still a long, long way to go, especially in remote country areas, but raising awareness and making mental illness the "new normal" helps a lot. :P

As for the right-wing... Christ... yeah, all we can do is be engaged and informed, and balance that with tuning out once in a while. On our own, it's too much to take on, but with others positive change can occur.
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by countstex »

On a positive note the left wing candidate in France just rose 19 points up the polls to become the favourite, whilst Le Pen is down in 5th place! Perhaps another Dutch style election :D
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Craig
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Craig »

So let's talk about social media bubbles once again. One thing that the internet lets us do is to venture out and see other folks' take on things. It also lets us peek into Pandora's box of terrible communities and see their bizarre view of the world.

A few months ago, a Nazi was punched. Many folk celebrated, and it became somewhat of a meme so much so that now Mr Spencer has been punched several times since.

Even in the leftist bubble, the reaction though was fairly mixed between folks wondering if we should celebrate violence to people thinking it actually helps the far right's goals to people thinking we should never stop punching nazis.

The far right, and some news channels, spun it as an affront to freedom of speech which depends on how willing you are to accept Richard Spencer's teachings as a legitimate political voice.

Recently, there have been some clashes between anti facists and Trump supporters in which Spencer's mate was filmed punching a woman in the face.

What's completely odd right now is looking at those alt right bubbles championing this moment. I was under no illusion that these guys were saints, but it's a case study in absolute tone deafness and living in your own bubble to be celebrating a woman getting punched in the face.

The general gist I've seen is-
1) Aping the "never stop punching nazis" comment saying that we should punch communists regardless of gender.

2) "Of course this was going to happen when you started punching people, they're going to punch back."

Maybe it's because these people think they're never going to get a fair shake with mainstream media anyway, but it's just so odd to see so many people actively pushing away potential followers. But whatever. Maybe their potential followers are folk who see a woman getting slugged and think "You know, she probably had it coming.
Todinho

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Todinho »

It's funny you mention that the far right thinks it wont get mainstream attention because the mainstream media is far more comfortable showing those people than any actual leftists, those people have by some account been normalized that guy Milo was being invited on US tv not too long ago, meanwhile when was the last communist you've seen invited on mainstream TV? People will pick Bernie Sanders as a "far-leftist" but he's a mainstream social democrat that would be centrist everywherelse but the US, the truth is the political spectrum has shifted so far to the right that annyone left of centre is now "far-left" in mainstream politics. And make no mistake these "centrist" politicians would much rather have a fascist in power then god-forbid and actual leftist in power, just look what the DNC did to Sanders(hell they even elevated Trump) and what the labour party did to Corbyn.
The left has been crushed so much that now it's the far-right that's "anti-war", the left wing anti- war prostest against Trump strike on Syria was pitifull meanwhile many of Trumps most adamant supporters on the Far-right were outraged by the strike and many said they were jumping ship, hell there was even direct retaliation with a hacking group leaking NSA hacking tools because Trump had "Abandoned his base", the uber racist Steve bannon might've been one of the few people in the Trump administration that tried to prevent that incredible idiotic and dangerous missile strike and now he has been ostracized in the administration, meanwhile democrats are complaning that Trump didnt kill any russians, this is an incredibly bizarre and dangerous moment we are living in.
On your original point of these bubbles of people legitimizing violence it's worth pointing out that party politics used to be much more violent than it is now, hell at the beginning of the previous century you'd literally have fascists and comunists killing each other in the streets, but I dont know maybe we're regressing to that,these types of events only breed more confrontation and I dont see a positive side it only gives the far-right, that already have a larger plataform, to further demonize leftists and ostricize them and on a more pratical level between the far-right and leftists which group is more organized and ready for violence?
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Flabyo »

There's a round of local council elections coming up in the UK in about a month, and while it never quite matches what might happen in a general election it's going to be a useful indicator of where political opinion here has gone since Brexit, Corbyn etc... (turnout is generally lower for council elections, even though more people are eligible to vote in them)

Expectation is that UKIP will fall away (their base got what they wanted so are now more likely to return to voting left or right based on where they are politically), that Labour will do poorly (general support for a fully left of centre position in the UK doesn't seem to be there), and that the main centrist part (the Liberal Democrats) could do well out of any protest vote from Remainers who feel betrayed by the Tory party. Of course pollsters haven't had a good run of late, so who knows?

Campaigning gets underway soon. It's going to get ugly. Probably not quite as ugly as the referendum did, but pretty bad.

You talk about bubbles online, but they also exist in meatspace too. I live in Guildford, which is one of the larger towns in Surrey. Surrey, politically, is basically Tory country. Nearly every MP is blue, and they also hold most of the council seats. There's a fair bit of UKIP support in the retirement belt, but not enough to swing them an MP, just a few council seats.

But Guildford itself is a bubble. Here the people are way more likely to vote Liberal than they are Tory. While we currently have a Tory MP, we've also had Liberal ones in recent years. And we also supply most of the Liberal councillors to the county. The tories will be campaigning here harder than elsewhere in Surrey, because we also mostly voted Remain.
nickturner13

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by nickturner13 »

Also in Surrey here but inside the M25 closer to Sutton. In fact my area is one of the very few in the country which is already Lib Dem, pleasing as although I've never really been into politics in the past, I have always thought of myself as more of a Lib Dem than either Labour or Tory.
AndyL

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by AndyL »

Joshihatsumitsu wrote: February 5th, 2017, 9:09 am On a side note: how is everyone dealing with everything going on at the moment? As in: how do you balance being informed and engaged without it consuming every part of your soul?
I think one has to have a balance with these things. On one hand, I want to be informed and keep up to date with Trump and the far-right, but on the other, I still have to live my life. The rise of far-right scares the crap out of me - but I still have people in my life who make me happy and keep a float. So you stay informed and active, but also make time for happiness with others.

Also, this is probably more personal for me - I work as a teacher in the United States. The majority of my kids are Hispanic - some native-born, some documented, some undocumented. Right now, their lives, and the lives of their families, are highly unstable because of Trump. What I can do as a teacher is keep my kids informed, and put on a brave face.

The future right now looks scary, but you have to live your life, speak up, and fight the good fight.
Todinho

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Todinho »

Hello there everyone I'd like to discuss a word with you and the word of the day is "russophobia":
You see in times of crises and turmoil it's easy to, even appealing to, fall into escapegoating a group of people for the problems in the world, that's because you can avoid doing any self-reflection and just blame those evil "others" over there for all your problems, and that's what the democratic party been doing since losing the election. Dont take it from me, you can read it in a book that just came out called "shattered" where former Hillary Clinton campaign staffers talk how as soon as Hillary lost the election she wanted to construct a narrative that was James Comey(oh how the times have changed) and Russia cost her the election.

With time that narrative has been spreading towards more ordinary people many that I think are struggling to accept that their country could elect a buffon like Donald Trump as President(honestly I dont know why people were so surprised I mean the US already elected Ronald Reagan and he wasnt exactly the sharpest tool in the shed either)so to cope with that it's much easier to think "oh it wasnt us it was those evil russians that interfered in our elections!" This is reflected in how a great number of democrats actually believe that Russia altered the vote to elect Trump: http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/27/y ... president/
Then of course there were all the allegations about how Trump and Russia colluded and that the russians helped trump to get elected especially by leaking the podesta e-mails,there's no proof that happened or that it had effect on the election but that doesnt matter apparently. All of this was stoked by the media that talked about this issue ad nauseum for example Rachel Maddow's program for the begining of the year covered Russia more then any other issue combined: https://theintercept.com/2017/04/12/msn ... ry-corner/
If you believe the claims are real or not that's not the real issue here, the issue is that this constant Russia talk has created a open field for charlatons and conspiracy theories as well as a new russophobia and more dangerously it has placed the Trump opposition agaisnt any conciliatory,friendly and even non-escalation postion the US gov might have with Russia.

Now onto the chalatans those of you in the UK might be familiar with this figure but Loise Mench is now considered a "russia especialist" and "great jornalist" by many americans that by the thousand retweet and repost what she writes, well what does she write? She writes great stuff like Russia was behind Ferguson riots and Black lives matter as a way to help install Trump: https://twitter.com/louisemensch/status ... 56?lang=en she also says that Bernie Sanders was a russian agent in disguise: http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/04/1 ... -politics/ and she alluded that the russians are trying to kill her multiple times, this woman is certifiably insane and yet she is now mainstream source when it comes to Russia in the US, she was even at the Bill Maher show, the fact that a charlatan like she got this level of exposure should be cause for concern.

Now this leads us to russophobia, you will notice that whenever people refer to the alleged Trump-russia conspiracy it`s always framed as him and "the russians" now I want you to think about it for more then a second, if people on tv were saying that a certain candidate was colluding with "the jews" by associating with Israel or colluding with "the poles" now that wouldnt sound really right now would it?But suddenly it`s ok with Russia and so all these charicatures and stereotypes come out and if you think it`s not happening just talk russian-americans,a few examples: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fo ... story.html , https://theintercept.com/2017/04/19/a-s ... peaks-out/ ,http://fusion.kinja.com/being-russian-a ... 1795125397
It`s even gotten to the point where politicians are openly saying that being "part-russian" is uniquely scary: https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/stat ... 4637343745

Hopefully by now I have showed how this russophobia is materializing itself and why it's incredibly disheartning to see it spreading to even the people I follow for gaming reasons, now you might not be convinced by what I've said and say that Im overreacting or that Im a russian troll in disguise and that there's no issue with all of this I showed because Trump and Putin are evil and you are convinced they are in a unholy alliance and we should oppose them because of that so on and so forth, ok but I want you to consider one thing, the press has been systematically going after Trump day in and day out(doing it's job for once) but what was the one day where it universally praised him? The day of the syria strikes, all outlets from right to left either endorsed or approved the strikes in CNN they said: "This is the day Donald Trump became president",here`s proof:https://theintercept.com/2017/04/07/the ... ing-syria/, now I had the very opposite reaction you`ll recall, I got very drunk and sobbed here that I thought we were all gonna die in a nuclear fire. because that was a direct escalation of tension with Russia and you will remember that people criticized Trump for "warning the russians"("the russians" again)which to me sounds like they wanted to start WW3.
The Trump opposition now has become beligerant towards Russia with many calling the alleged interference an "act of war" and liberals are now praising war criminals like Bush and maniacs like McCain. There are now thousand of NATO troops on Russia's border,not russians in the mexican border but americans on the russian border, this troop build up should be concerning under any administration and this one even more so, the incentive on Trump is now to be more beligerant towards Russia or any adversary, which you might not see as an issue if you're convinced that Trump and Putin are in bed together but what if you're wrong?What if creating a climate that encourages beligerance of a temperamental manchild that goes on twitter rants at 3am isnt the best course of action?
I'll leave you with a quote of former secretary of state Robert McNamara about the Cuban missile crisis: "What saved us was luck...Kennedy was rational, Khrushchev was rational, Castro was rational. Rational human beings came so close to the complete destruction of their society." I think we can all at least agree that we dont have the same quality of leaders now that we had back then.
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Craig
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Craig »

There's certainly a troubling anti-Russian sentiment coming across at times, but I really don't agree with a lot of your points.

Trump was no-where nearly universally praised in the media for the Syria bombings. It was a mixed response at best, with many even saying that the bombing was the right thing to do, but not necessarily trusting that Trump did it with the best judgment.

Nor is that the only time he's received positive media coverage. There was a speech he did early into his presidency (before Syria) in which a whole lot of commentators were saying that he looked very presidential at that time.

Louise Mench is dangerously naive at best but you're right, she is unfortunately gaining a lot of traction, mostly from people outside the UK who have only recently became aware of her. Hopefully her moment in the sun will falter soon.

A big issue with scandals of "X influenced the election" is that the people who voted for that outcome aren't going to believe they've been influenced by outside sources. It's similar to the recent Tory election budget scandal - it's a complete non-starter. If the Tories failed to disclose spending on the election it should be an issue, but the people who voted for them aren't going to care - they voted for, and got, what they wanted. Regardless of if those wants were influenced.



Meanwhile in British politics I'm just kind of saddened all round. The same people pushing the "we are sick of the elites!" narrative of brexit are happily pushing a party considering fox hunting and criticising moves to increase tax for people who earn more than 80 grand. If you feel that these policy is wrong headed, that's fine, but it just feels like openly manipulative pandering. May openly criticises the Scottish independence referendum, for being at the wrong time, and then holds a general election she said she wouldn't. The Tory party are saying that life is harder for a lot of people realise for most, without acknowledging that they've been in power for the last seven years. The NHS is constantly reported on as being in dire straights, as if it's a force of nature and not the responsibility of the government.

And on a personal note, they've said in their manifesto that they'll increase the minimum income requirement for spouse visas which boils my blood and also makes it incredibly difficult for me to return to the UK. It's one of those "common sense" policies that's an easy win on paper because no-one can disagree with the rationale. People should be able to prove they can care for their spouse if they want to bring them to the UK. Sure! But the income requirement is already higher than it needs to be for many parts of the UK.

There are also many other issues with that visa which I won't get into at the moment, but it's just disheartening to even discuss with people because there is so much assumed knowledge, which makes people think it's a decent and just policy. It's not. And it's not fit for the purpose it claims to serve.
Todinho

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Todinho »

Craig wrote: May 19th, 2017, 12:57 pm There's certainly a troubling anti-Russian sentiment coming across at times, but I really don't agree with a lot of your points.

Trump was no-where nearly universally praised in the media for the Syria bombings. It was a mixed response at best, with many even saying that the bombing was the right thing to do, but not necessarily trusting that Trump did it with the best judgment.
The intercept story that I linked does a good job compiling the stories and talking about the atmosphere at large: https://theintercept.com/2017/04/07/the ... ing-syria/ I think it does a good demostrating what I meant by universal praise.

I was looking at a few polls in the UK and it amazed me how on policy the public is very much against conservative policies but when asked which party is the most realistic one the go and say it's the tories, it's kinda bizzarre people think right-wing policies are bad but they cant to the simple jump of logic and go to the left, happens here too people see right wing policies and hate them but dont seem to recognize the left as an alternative it's either unrealistic or they see it as the same thing.
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Flabyo »

With the current state of uk politics it's more complex than issues of left versus right.

Yes, when you present the policies more people favour Labours ones over conservative ones. But it's not just about that, there's also the question of 'who will be prime minister if they win', and a hell of a lot of people like labour but think Corbyn would be a disaster as pm.

A large part of the current conservative dominance right now is more down to divisions in the labour support than any real favour for the right. There's a reason Theresa May called a snap election right now, she knows that the opposition is a mess of infighting and is taking advantage of it.

And that's before you even factor that brexit cuts right across party lines (unless you're a liberal democrat voter).
Todinho

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Todinho »

Yeah so I dont quite get that either, I mean Im no expert in UK politics or consume it's media in large quantities but I like to believe that Im more informed then the regular person and everything I've seen of Corbyn it's great, if you have left wing convictions that is, so why is Labour divided?From what I`ve seen it`s mostly neoliberal estabilishment politicians that hate him because he unseated them and the large media that obviously hate him because they'd rather have a fascist in power then and actual leftist. Are there any real motives people are split on Corbyn or is it all just propaganda from the right to sink him?
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Flabyo »

Honestly? Its impossible to tell.

Corbyn has definitely closed the gap in the opinion polls recently, but I suspect that's as much down to Theresa May turning out to be monumentally awful at actually running an election campaign as it is Corbyn getting his message across.
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Stanshall »

I would absolutely love it if Corbyn got in. A proper FUCK YOU to small minded xenophobia and contempt for the poor. Capitalism is an unsustainable model without the gross exploitation of the most vulnerable members of society. The global economy will become increasingly fragile once China's working classes begin to ask when it's their turn. It's a disgusting race to the bottom.

Of course, it's much more likely that the Tories win and everything is commodified and sold off to half a dozen sociopaths.
Todinho

Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Todinho »

Well dont fully understand what the elections last night fully mean but acording to this I think congratulations are in order to you folks in the UK :D

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by ratsoalbion »

With caveats, yes!

Things are encouraging, but we also face the spectre of the Tories forming a government with the vile DUP.

Moving in a positive direction though as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Rise of the Far-Right Worldwide

Post by Craig »

May won't last as PM. Although technically she "won" the election in getting more seats, she called the election to essentially dominate and crush an easy opponent at an opportune time and fell flat on her face.

Now she's formed a partnership with a party that has a lot of "controversial" stances to put it politely which means that she will have to make certain concessions to them in exchange for... a very small majority. The latest word is that it will be about abortion term limits which will be hideously unpopular.

Why does that matter if she has a majority? Well, because it's so small that it will be difficult to pass something if only a few rebels within her party vote against her either out of principle or because they want to make a name for themselves as next PM (and let's face it, it will be the latter.)

The knives have already started to come out with some Tory MPs airing their dissatisfaction in public and the right wing press have turned on her. She'll go before the end of the year. But the push will come from her own party. Though I said the same thing about Trump and he's still standing so, like many journalists right now, I have no real idea what the hell is going on.
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